[baka1969]

Quote:Originally Posted by chesebert 

"It all depends on how you define "top of the heap"
Between Apache, b22 and B52, it's probably along the lines of Apache << b22 < B52. So I guess one can always define "top of the heap" to include all amps better than b22.
Is CX300 that good? guess i need to find a dealer and give it a listen one of these days."



I've listened to the Leben before. It's a nice amp. I'm not quite sure it would be worth the premium above the Woo amp. I've hear Frank I's Decware setup with the Taboo and CSP and believe it's on par with the Leben. YMMV. It makes sense that the balanced beta22 and the b52 would be better than the SE b22. I haven't heard the Apache so won't comment.

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

It all depends on how you define "top of the heap"
 
Between Apache, b22 and B52, it's probably along the lines of Apache << b22 < B52. So I guess one can always define "top of the heap" to include all amps better than b22.
 
Is CX300 that good? guess i need to find a dealer and give it a listen one of these days.
 


 

Have you heard all 3 amps to come to this conclusion?
 

 

[baka1969]

I have a few more sections to write. It's quite lengthy. I hope to have it posted tonight or in the morning.

 

[sphinxvc]

Looking forward to this.

 

[Chefguru]

Quote:

It all depends on how you define "top of the heap"
 
Between Apache, b22 and B52, it's probably along the lines of Apache << b22 < B52. So I guess one can always define "top of the heap" to include all amps better than b22.
 
Is CX300 that good? guess i need to find a dealer and give it a listen one of these days.
 


 

 

cs300xs (said to sound the same as the cs300 at least as far as headphone out) is a very very good amp. To my ears with the hd800 it was better then the wa22, wa5, apache and b22Se. I have not heard the b52... however I have heard the apex pinnacle ($10k) with the hd800s and while it was a little bit more technical - the leben was actually more fun and musical to listen to. The leben is without doubt a top tier dynamic amp, possibly, with certain headphones, the best.

 

[chesebert]

Yes. Again, it's all relative. B52 is a major upgrade from Apache, that much I am certain of. Apache sounded the least transparent to me compared to the other 2, which is a significnat factor for me. As with all high-end systems, YMMV.
 
IMO, your source is the bottleneck.
 
Quote:

Have you heard all 3 amps to come to this conclusion?
 

 
 

 

[baka1969]

 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548400/the-woo-wa6se-and-beta22-sigma22-amps-face-off-review-posted#post_7391958



Sorry for the delay. I know it's long but I hope you enjoy it. Thanks for reading.

 

[jp11801]

thanks for putting the time, energy and thought into this comparison. I am confused by your passage on dynamic range and since you have a SPL did you measure say two short passages of both amps to test your theory on their respective dynamic range? The reason I ask is if you feel the Woo is overall louder or at least as loud as the Beta and its transients as fast I wonder why you felt it did not have the headroom for dynamics. I doubt Woo built in rectifier sag to the 6se as that would be apparent in the transient attack. I wonder if frequency response could be to blame here with the Woo being softer on top?
 
I look forward to the Philly meet as just about all my beta visits have left me cold. I have found it a technically sound amp that left most of the PRaT factor on the table. One of the sole SS amps that had PRaT is spades was the Dynahi which sadly is long gone as key parts are discontinued. I'd love to give the beta another shot. I had in past meets favored the Woo2 to the 6se for that same PRaT factor but finding the Woo 5 best overall in the line up. It will be great to hear both of these amps again to recalibrate.
 

 

[baka1969]

Quote:Originally Posted by jp11801 

"thanks for putting the time, energy and thought into this comparison. I am confused by your passage on dynamic range and since you have a SPL did you measure say two short passages of both amps to test your theory on their respective dynamic range? The reason I ask is if you feel the Woo is overall louder or at least as loud as the Beta and its transients as fast I wonder why you felt it did not have the headroom for dynamics. I doubt Woo built in rectifier sag to the 6se as that would be apparent in the transient attack. I wonder if frequency response could be to blame here with the Woo being softer on top?
I look forward to the Philly meet as just about all my beta visits have left me cold. I have found it a technically sound amp that left most of the PRaT factor on the table. One of the sole SS amps that had PRaT is spades was the Dynahi which sadly is long gone as key parts are discontinued. I'd love to give the beta another shot. I had in past meets favored the Woo2 to the 6se for that same PRaT factor but finding the Woo 5 best overall in the line up. It will be great to hear both of these amps again to recalibrate."



What I define the dynamics to be is how far apart the loudest and quietest passages of a song are. Let's say the difference between how loud a scream is compared to how soft a whisper sound. Or at least the perception. With the Woo amp those two sound closer together in volume than it is with the beta22. I'm not sure it has to do with the frequency range of the two amps because it happens regardless of the highs, mids or lows. At least that's what I'm hearing. The rest of your statement I think is a bit more subjective. Some prefer tubes and some solid state.

Sadly I probably won't be able to attend the meet. I have scheduling issues that I can't seem to resolve. There's a slim chance I can make it. I wish I could.

 

[Shahrose]

 
Excellent review baka! I liked the format just as much as the content. I have to say the comparison turned out exactly how I expected in each area of the sound. Seems like we'd agree
 
Just saw the pics of your Beta...very nice...more internal shots too perhaps?


Quote:

 
I look forward to the Philly meet as just about all my beta visits have left me cold. I have found it a technically sound amp that left most of the PRaT factor on the table. One of the sole SS amps that had PRaT is spades was the Dynahi which sadly is long gone as key parts are discontinued. I'd love to give the beta another shot. I had in past meets favored the Woo2 to the 6se for that same PRaT factor but finding the Woo 5 best overall in the line up. It will be great to hear both of these amps again to recalibrate.
 

Yea I wouldn't trade the Dynahi for anything.
 
 

 

[Frank I]

nice read Ross Good effort. I have not heard the newer B22  but it must be much improved. I enjoyed the Woo 6SE with the HD800 in January. I have not heard you new one but its always about preferences in this wacky hobby. Glad you like both

 

[chesebert]

I trade Dynahi for Beta22, and I don't miss Dynahi all that much. YMMV.
 
I also have my beta22 at 5x gain, but with an added DACT. I think one is just as dynamic as the other, with similar PRAT. Both amps need good source to shine.
 
Beta22 is just as good as Dynahi at everything, with the added benefit of sounding more organic and producing far far far less heat.

 
Quote:

 
Excellent review baka! I liked the format just as much as the content. I have to say the comparison turned out exactly how I expected in each area of the sound. Seems like we'd agree
 
Just saw the pics of your Beta...very nice...more internal shots too perhaps?




Yea I wouldn't trade the Dynahi for anything.
 
 

 

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

Yes. Again, it's all relative. B52 is a major upgrade from Apache, that much I am certain of. Apache sounded the least transparent to me compared to the other 2, which is a significnat factor for me. As with all high-end systems, YMMV.
 
IMO, your source is the bottleneck.
 
Quote:


 
 

Maybe so, but to be honest the differences to me between high end dacs and mid-tier are small. The matrix is a very competent DAC IMO. I would rather upgrade or buy new headphones than get a new dac at this point.
Back on track, that was an unbelievable review Baka. Thanks for putting that together.
 

 

[bumblingbooby]

What a thoughtful, engaging review. You managed to stay true to what you value as an audiophile - the reproduction of music that most resonates with you. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Awesome review and comparison Ross! Thanks for talking the time to put together such an amazing write up!