The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[fejnomit]

I had a chance to hear these at Toronto Audio Fest this year when Dan brought it over. I tend to be pretty agnostic about sources but I will say that this LOAZ DAC/amp is one of the few sources that draws me more towards that subjectivist side. It added a touch of warmth and richness and gave a slightly enhanced illusion of depth. That sort of tasteful coloration I think a lot of people would look for and one that you could reasonably use across a lot of gear. Of course the usual disclaimers apply: I heard it only briefly and didn't do a proper A/B test. Still, the LOAZ was more convincing at first listen than the dozens of sources I've tried just for fun and failed to hear a noticeable difference.

Anyone know where/when this will be available? Very interested...

 

[nocturne19]

LPGT II in a snapshot

TLDR: LPGT with improved technicalities, recommended for those who love the LPGT, or for those craving over neutrality without compromise in technicalities. Yes indeed, size is not too friendly, but sound-wise or size-wise it subjectively beats numerous LPGT + AMP combos.

Intro.
I never expected LPGT II to bump up all in a sudden - from my memory, the talk around Lotoo recently was more about the rumored LPG 10th anniversary. Nevertheless, it came out, and as a Lotoo fanboy I could not resist to check it out. Being an owner of several Lotoo players (PAW6000, LPGT etc.), I certainly have my hopes up high.

Design.
'Seriously, is this a mashup of LPGT and Sony WM1AM2?' This was literally my reaction a few days ago. I mean, Lotoo design to me was always sleek and simple. The 'lump' at the back of the player didn't look too good, in photos and in fact real life. To me design-wise it looked redundant, reminding me of connecting an external AMP to LPGT. The only advantage I could think of is to provide users with better grip, but yeah I'm a static listener, so I guess that doesn't do much benefit to me.

How does it look like in real life? Well, it is an interesting combination. The main body has the length and width of LPGT, the thickness of PAW6000, and a 'thump' that resembles an attached external charger. The machine, overall speaking, is unfortunately a bit big and heavy in my opinion. It basically reminds me of Fiio M17, or Cayin N30LE. Putting in the bag fine, but I can't imagine tucking it in my pocket.

Button-wise, it basically resembles LPGT. You have the usually connectors and buttons, with the 4.4 mm and 3.5 mm ports at the back instead at the top. Now a minor rant here, but I ain't a fan of this new design. Having the ports at the top gives better convenience to the user, as well as more space for bulky connectors. One think that immediately came to my mind about the new design is that 'How am I going to plug in my Liquid Link cables?' Though without trial, I believe I can do that at a particular angle, just not as user-friendly.

Overall speaking, I wasn't too impressed by LPGT II's design. By no means it is bad, but LPGT and PAW6000 set the bar really high, leaving me more to be desired.

Sound.
(Most of my listening was done on 64audio U12t. I listen to multiple genres, including but not limited to classical, jazz, electronic)

In a nutshell, LPGT II sounds extremely neutral, accompanied by decent technicalities. Tuning-wise it basically screams NEUTRALITY, probably the most neutral player I have heard. Compared to LPGT I hear less mid-bass presence, though this could be a façade for improved technicalities. Nonetheless, both LPGT and II sound very similar. If you have heard PAW6000 and LPGT, imagine upgrading from PAW6000 to LPGT. LPGT to LPGT II gives a very close feeling. Technicalities are pretty decent though in modern day standards - wide stage, great resolution as you would expect in a flagship. My only nitpick would probably be dynamics: not really outstanding, but explainable by its tuning choice.

3.5 mm vs 4.4 mm.
In LPGT and LPGT Ti, there was no noticeable difference between the ports because they had similar power output. But with the power difference in LPGT II, I was curious whether balanced will outperform single-ended. Results? Affirmative. 3.5 mm sounded good, but 4.4 mm sounded better - more expanded soundstage depth and width, even higher resolution with an extremely dark background. Improvements were so noticeable that I kept on 4.4 mm for my subsequent tests. Surprisingly this didn't sound too Lotoo to me because I consider Lotoo to reign in the portable single ended market; but anyways, guess they doubled down on balanced.

Low Gain vs High Gain vs 'S' Gain (For Headphones).
So LPGT II provides noticeably more power than LPGT, not the biggest output but well controlled, as you would expect from a Lotoo product. Low gain and high gain are similar to what you would expect in you DAP; just a difference in power. But 'S' (I guess that means 'Super'?) Gain looks interesting. So instead of adding Middle Gain featured in Mjolnir, LPGT II had 'S' Gain instead, which by description says is for headphones. According to my short experience I hear a noticeable wider stage and much improved dynamics, though on the verge of 'overpowered' on certain sensitive iems. Interested to re-demo this mode in the future with HPs or difficult-to-drive iems to see what could LPGT II provide.

Conclusion.
On my way home, I asked myself, 'Will LPGT II be a classic as LPGT did?' At this time when I am typing, I still couldn't answer my question. Yes I was not a fan of it design-wise, but sound-wise it lived up to my expectations: Refining neutrality on LPGT, while giving a boost to its technicalities- basically a must-own for neutrality cravers.
I guess I'll stop searching for the answer. We'll probably know when LPGT III arrives.


(Disclaimers:
The above are 100% my personal impressions and please do not feel offended if we do not share the same view. Everyone hears differently, and everyone enjoys music in their own ways. Happy listening!)

 

[Venura]

SP3000M has been my disappointment so far, it sounds small and fuzzy with its image which I felt the regular SP3000 didn’t have this issue. I also hear it to be very flat sounding and not having much sense of depth or layering. The sound leans warm and slightly mid bassy and I don’t get that same precise sounding / highly detailed signature that I love with the OG SP3000. I wish I liked it more as the size is amazing and it would have been a perfect source for Fugaku. In a direct A/B to SP3000T OP amp mode I think the M is inferior, so for me it is not an SP3000 in a smaller chassis. I’ll try it again later today with fresh ears and an open mind to see if my thoughts change but I’ve used it several times so far and it’s just not doing it for me at all. I want to love it though…!

Man I'm so sad to hear that, I had high hopes about the 3000M

Thanks for the feedback !

 

[drftr]

LPGT II in a snapshot


TLDR: LPGT with improved technicalities, recommended for those who love the LPGT, or for those craving over neutrality without compromise in technicalities. Yes indeed, size is not too friendly, but sound-wise or size-wise it subjectively beats numerous LPGT + AMP combos.

Intro.
I never expected LPGT II to bump up all in a sudden - from my memory, the talk around Lotoo recently was more about the rumored LPG 10th anniversary. Nevertheless, it came out, and as a Lotoo fanboy I could not resist to check it out. Being an owner of several Lotoo players (PAW6000, LPGT etc.), I certainly have my hopes up high.

Design.
'Seriously, is this a mashup of LPGT and Sony WM1AM2?' This was literally my reaction a few days ago. I mean, Lotoo design to me was always sleek and simple. The 'lump' at the back of the player didn't look too good, in photos and in fact real life. To me design-wise it looked redundant, reminding me of connecting an external AMP to LPGT. The only advantage I could think of is to provide users with better grip, but yeah I'm a static listener, so I guess that doesn't do much benefit to me.

How does it look like in real life? Well, it is an interesting combination. The main body has the length and width of LPGT, the thickness of PAW6000, and a 'thump' that resembles an attached external charger. The machine, overall speaking, is unfortunately a bit big and heavy in my opinion. It basically reminds me of Fiio M17, or Cayin N30LE. Putting in the bag fine, but I can't imagine tucking it in my pocket.

Button-wise, it basically resembles LPGT. You have the usually connectors and buttons, with the 4.4 mm and 3.5 mm ports at the back instead at the top. Now a minor rant here, but I ain't a fan of this new design. Having the ports at the top gives better convenience to the user, as well as more space for bulky connectors. One think that immediately came to my mind about the new design is that 'How am I going to plug in my Liquid Link cables?' Though without trial, I believe I can do that at a particular angle, just not as user-friendly.

Overall speaking, I wasn't too impressed by LPGT II's design. By no means it is bad, but LPGT and PAW6000 set the bar really high, leaving me more to be desired.

Sound.
(Most of my listening was done on 64audio U12t. I listen to multiple genres, including but not limited to classical, jazz, electronic)

In a nutshell, LPGT II sounds extremely neutral, accompanied by decent technicalities. Tuning-wise it basically screams NEUTRALITY, probably the most neutral player I have heard. Compared to LPGT I hear less mid-bass presence, though this could be a façade for improved technicalities. Nonetheless, both LPGT and II sound very similar. If you have heard PAW6000 and LPGT, imagine upgrading from PAW6000 to LPGT. LPGT to LPGT II gives a very close feeling. Technicalities are pretty decent though in modern day standards - wide stage, great resolution as you would expect in a flagship. My only nitpick would probably be dynamics: not really outstanding, but explainable by its tuning choice.

3.5 mm vs 4.4 mm.
In LPGT and LPGT Ti, there was no noticeable difference between the ports because they had similar power output. But with the power difference in LPGT II, I was curious whether balanced will outperform single-ended. Results? Affirmative. 3.5 mm sounded good, but 4.4 mm sounded better - more expanded soundstage depth and width, even higher resolution with an extremely dark background. Improvements were so noticeable that I kept on 4.4 mm for my subsequent tests. Surprisingly this didn't sound too Lotoo to me because I consider Lotoo to reign in the portable single ended market; but anyways, guess they doubled down on balanced.

Low Gain vs High Gain vs 'S' Gain (For Headphones).
So LPGT II provides noticeably more power than LPGT, not the biggest output but well controlled, as you would expect from a Lotoo product. Low gain and high gain are similar to what you would expect in you DAP; just a difference in power. But 'S' (I guess that means 'Super'?) Gain looks interesting. So instead of adding Middle Gain featured in Mjolnir, LPGT II had 'S' Gain instead, which by description says is for headphones. According to my short experience I hear a noticeable wider stage and much improved dynamics, though on the verge of 'overpowered' on certain sensitive iems. Interested to re-demo this mode in the future with HPs or difficult-to-drive iems to see what could LPGT II provide.

Comparisons.
Would love to write multiple paragraphs on this topic

Conclusion.
On my way home, I asked myself, 'Will LPGT II be a classic as LPGT did?' At this time when I am typing, I still couldn't answer my question. Yes I was not a fan of it design-wise, but sound-wise it lived up to my expectations: Refining neutrality on LPGT, while giving a boost to its technicalities- basically a must-own for neutrality cravers.
I guess I'll stop searching for the answer. We'll probably know when LPGT III arrives.


(Disclaimers:
The above are 100% my personal impressions and please do not feel offended if we do not share the same view. Everyone hears differently, and everyone enjoys music in their own ways. Happy listening!)

Fantastic candidate for a Very Special Edition limited to only 99 units. Except that it isn't . Now I'm definitely not the ugliest on the Cooler any longer

drftr

 

[aaf evo]

Man I'm so sad to hear that, I had high hopes about the 3000M

Thanks for the feedback !

At the end of the day it is pretty damn small so I think trade offs had to be made. I’d def give it a shot if you like the AK sound, I just personally find it to be a bit off the SP3000T in OP amp mode which I felt wasn’t the same level as the SP3000. The soundstage on the M feels small and I’m noticing that to really bug me especially when paired with the Fugaku.

I’m doing some more listening this morning. I don’t dislike the SP3000M when I just listen to it without any comparisons, but I can tell it’s not amazing and I’m missing a little here and there, especially in the sub bass.

 

[Silverlinings]

I’ve mostly been focusing on daps to find a LO/portable for Fugaku. But I’ve tested a bunch of IEMs too. No real standouts for me so far or at least nothing that I haven’t already heard before…

LP EA4 tube amp… quite smooth and full sounding but super engaging and not overly warm or rolling off highs either… I probably prefer this to C9ii but I think it’s got less tweaks to it overall so it’s more about fine tuning the EA4 sound versus the C9ii which is like a Swiss Army knife.

I was very impressed with my friends LP6 7th Anniversary Edition… the best r2r dap I’ve heard by a solid margin imo. It has a well balanced but powerful sound with great techs. I can see why it’s got a massive following. It doesn’t sound too warm like the P6 Pro black/gold and it’s got a much more refined signature versus the RS8… I get the enthusiasm behind it.

SP3000M has been my disappointment so far, it sounds small and fuzzy with its image which I felt the regular SP3000 didn’t have this issue. I also hear it to be very flat sounding and not having much sense of depth or layering. The sound leans warm and slightly mid bassy and I don’t get that same precise sounding / highly detailed signature that I love with the OG SP3000. I wish I liked it more as the size is amazing and it would have been a perfect source for Fugaku. In a direct A/B to SP3000T OP amp mode I think the M is inferior, so for me it is not an SP3000 in a smaller chassis. I’ll try it again later today with fresh ears and an open mind to see if my thoughts change but I’ve used it several times so far and it’s just not doing it for me at all. I want to love it though…!

Cayin N6iii has been solid, kinda warm ish but good upper mids and treble detail too. Solid techs for the price as well. The tonality does sound a bit digital for me but overall I seem to be enjoying this dap the most as far as offering a lot for not much price wise and in a DAP body that still feels relatively portable. I need to spend more time with it today. Leo let me borrow a unit overnight so I’ll get listening to that soon in my room.

LPGT2 was great as excepted… very “Lotoo sounding” with a clean / neutral leaning signature and a much better amp section than their previous DAPs. It reminds me a bit of the Mjolnir but with a little more slam and a more in head soundstage whereas Mjolnir can produce a sound that feels borderless if the track calls for it. It’s a little ugly but it sits well in your hand and it’s still somewhat pocketable. Given it doesn’t have android I don’t have interest in it for a portable but if it did I’d want to own one.

BGVP Phantom SE from MT was pretty solid for the price, I think it’s $1099? It has a deep sub bass and a well balanced tonality, just overall not much to nitpick but nothing that’ll blow your mind either.

I tried it in SoCal briefly but I wanted to try it again, but I really enjoyed the Macbeth + Ambition cable too, I get why it’s got a mini cult following. My main gripe with it is that it’s missing something “special” that I feel makes it hard for me to really get excited about, and I find tracks that are already vocal forward that the Macbeth can push this too far at times but overall it’s not an issue.

Overall in terms of just pure sound quality I don’t think the Fugaku is matched for my tastes, but the hunt for a source to use on the go instead of MUB1 is on.

I am getting started nice and early in my room with the N6iii before I get some breakfast

Anymore impressions on the cayin c6iii? It seems like the sp3000m isn’t for me. Plus the cayin is $1k less with a bigger screen, full android, and other chip/possibilities.

 

[aaf evo]

Anymore impressions on the cayin c6iii? It seems like the sp3000m isn’t for me. Plus the cayin is $1k less with a bigger screen, full android, and other chip/possibilities.

From a technicality perspective it’s quite a bit more impressive than the SP3000M. Solid dynamics, decently holographic stage and precise imaging. I’m not sure I love the tone though or perhaps the DAC chips? It’s got a hint of digital grain to it that doesn’t quite bug me but gets to the cusp of being unnatural… almost like the decay to music is a tad too quick. I think for a dap that’ll have more options in the future with new DAC cards and the price point it’s very good.

 

[Silverlinings]

From a technicality perspective it’s quite a bit more impressive than the SP3000M. Solid dynamics, decently holographic stage and precise imaging. I’m not sure I love the tone though or perhaps the DAC chips? It’s got a hint of digital grain to it that doesn’t quite bug me but gets to the cusp of being unnatural… almost like the decay to music is a tad too quick. I think for a dap that’ll have more options in the future with new DAC cards and the price point it’s very good.

It’s unfortunate that a demo of the DX340 wasn’t at the show. Although that’s going to be a big heavy dap similar to my R8II. Also pricing isn’t known yet but I’m guessing maybe $2.2k or something like that.

 

[OneEyedHito]

Anymore impressions on the cayin c6iii? It seems like the sp3000m isn’t for me. Plus the cayin is $1k less with a bigger screen, full android, and other chip/possibilities.

Do you mean the N6 III? I don’t see anything on the intarwebz for the C6 III.

 

[Silverlinings]

Do you mean the N6 III? I don’t see anything on the intarwebz for the C6 III.

Yes sorry lol.

 

[mikaik]

It’s unfortunate that a demo of the DX340 wasn’t at the show. Although that’s going to be a big heavy dap similar to my R8II. Also pricing isn’t known yet but I’m guessing maybe $2.2k or something like that.

Things have just gotten very complicated, we have a small, relatively expensive DAP that is not as good as its bigger brother (AK), a bulkier reasonably priced one which will maybe require additional cards to bring the best out of it, thus bringing it closer to the AK offering, and the hump whale (saying this affectionately) that probably sounds best, but is more expensive than the AK and Cayin together (LPGT2). With no streaming out of the box. Ah, and DX340, of course.

Maybe throw in a new top tier dongle, to make the choice really impossible? Maybe it's time I focus on a headphone amp. Oh, wait...

 

[TRHH]

Things have just gotten very complicated, we have a small, relatively expensive DAP that is not as good as its bigger brother (AK), a bulkier reasonably priced one which will maybe require additional cards to bring the best out of it, thus bringing it closer to the AK offering, and the hump whale (saying this affectionately) that probably sounds best, but is more expensive than the AK and Cayin together (LPGT2). With no streaming out of the box. Ah, and DX340, of course.

Maybe throw in a new top tier dongle, to make the choice really impossible? Maybe it's time I focus on a headphone amp. Oh, wait...

Or get back to rubber band

 

[aaf evo]

Things have just gotten very complicated, we have a small, relatively expensive DAP that is not as good as its bigger brother (AK), a bulkier reasonably priced one which will maybe require additional cards to bring the best out of it, thus bringing it closer to the AK offering, and the hump whale (saying this affectionately) that probably sounds best, but is more expensive than the AK and Cayin together (LPGT2). With no streaming out of the box. Ah, and DX340, of course.

Maybe throw in a new top tier dongle, to make the choice really impossible? Maybe it's time I focus on a headphone amp. Oh, wait...

Haha, there’s a lot of interesting choices it there for sure but IMO unless you’re willing to deal with the brick daps then what is already available seems to be fine. Most of the new stuff I’m trying just seem like different options/flavors rather than anything groundbreaking.

 

[mikaik]

Haha, there’s a lot of interesting choices it there for sure but IMO unless you’re willing to deal with the brick daps then what is already available seems to be fine. Most of the new stuff I’m trying just seem like different options/flavors rather than anything groundbreaking.

Yeah, not really complaining. It all started with the idea of a small, light player, to get rid of the rubber bands and to protect the expensive DAPs. So, something really cheap, Activo P1, Hiby R4. Then, the 3000M was announced and I forgot where I started from. Then, the other two.
But I'm not really desperate for a new DAP, I can also use TWS when commuting. Or one of these.

The D16 is too big. And I no longer like the rubber bands. I'm ready to donate them

PS: Yes, I am so lazy that I bought the cd ripper, please don't judge me, I was fed up with EAC and with my crappy external Blu-ray drive.

 

[buenahora]

I’ve mostly been focusing on daps to find a LO/portable for Fugaku. But I’ve tested a bunch of IEMs too. No real standouts for me so far or at least nothing that I haven’t already heard before…

LP EA4 tube amp… quite smooth and full sounding but super engaging and not overly warm or rolling off highs either… I probably prefer this to C9ii but I think it’s got less tweaks to it overall so it’s more about fine tuning the EA4 sound versus the C9ii which is like a Swiss Army knife.

I was very impressed with my friends LP6 7th Anniversary Edition… the best r2r dap I’ve heard by a solid margin imo. It has a well balanced but powerful sound with great techs. I can see why it’s got a massive following. It doesn’t sound too warm like the P6 Pro black/gold and it’s got a much more refined signature versus the RS8… I get the enthusiasm behind it.

SP3000M has been my disappointment so far, it sounds small and fuzzy with its image which I felt the regular SP3000 didn’t have this issue. I also hear it to be very flat sounding and not having much sense of depth or layering. The sound leans warm and slightly mid bassy and I don’t get that same precise sounding / highly detailed signature that I love with the OG SP3000. I wish I liked it more as the size is amazing and it would have been a perfect source for Fugaku. In a direct A/B to SP3000T OP amp mode I think the M is inferior, so for me it is not an SP3000 in a smaller chassis. I’ll try it again later today with fresh ears and an open mind to see if my thoughts change but I’ve used it several times so far and it’s just not doing it for me at all. I want to love it though…!

Cayin N6iii has been solid, kinda warm ish but good upper mids and treble detail too. Solid techs for the price as well. The tonality does sound a bit digital for me but overall I seem to be enjoying this dap the most as far as offering a lot for not much price wise and in a DAP body that still feels relatively portable. I need to spend more time with it today. Leo let me borrow a unit overnight so I’ll get listening to that soon in my room.

LPGT2 was great as excepted… very “Lotoo sounding” with a clean / neutral leaning signature and a much better amp section than their previous DAPs. It reminds me a bit of the Mjolnir but with a little more slam and a more in head soundstage whereas Mjolnir can produce a sound that feels borderless if the track calls for it. It’s a little ugly but it sits well in your hand and it’s still somewhat pocketable. Given it doesn’t have android I don’t have interest in it for a portable but if it did I’d want to own one.

BGVP Phantom SE from MT was pretty solid for the price, I think it’s $1099? It has a deep sub bass and a well balanced tonality, just overall not much to nitpick but nothing that’ll blow your mind either.

I tried it in SoCal briefly but I wanted to try it again, but I really enjoyed the Macbeth + Ambition cable too, I get why it’s got a mini cult following. My main gripe with it is that it’s missing something “special” that I feel makes it hard for me to really get excited about, and I find tracks that are already vocal forward that the Macbeth can push this too far at times but overall it’s not an issue.

Overall in terms of just pure sound quality I don’t think the Fugaku is matched for my tastes, but the hunt for a source to use on the go instead of MUB1 is on.

I am getting started nice and early in my room with the N6iii before I get some breakfast

Did you have a chance to pair N6iii with the C9 II amp? How was the synergy? Asking as I’m considering purchasing this combo.