That whole MBL system retails for $400K. I am glad to hear it sounds good.On Sunday, I had nothing to do in the afternoon and I had paid for a multi-day pass to CAF, so I went back a third time just before the show ended to revisit a few things. I confirmed that the LTA chain is bad for the CRBN 2 while I much preferred the Bricasti + Phantom combo, but when I was speaking with the two Audeze reps, one of them liked the LTA chain better. So YMMV, as always. The LTA Aero DAC was using the Ray Reserve 6SN7 tubes on the last day, and I thought they did sound a bit better than the stock GE 12SN7 tubes. I didn't listen long enough to get a good sense of the differences, but they sounded a bit richer and textured.
The issue with the CRBN 2 on the LTA chain is that the vocals are very prominent, but also very smooth. If a singer is that close to me, I expect to hear the spit in their mouth and the ripple and rumble of air passing over their vocal cords, all of those little sounds that accompany a voice. But those are smoothed over on the CRBN, so it sound unconvincing to me, like an airbrushed picture (or an AI generated image) of a person where the skin is impossibly smooth. The Bricasti chain provided more impact and dynamics, so those little gradations in sound are better rendered and it sounds more real to me.
Funnily enough, I didn't get the "smoothed over" sense when I listened to the X9000 on the LTA chain. I thought it was very well textured and detailed there. Practically on par with the BHSE. I suppose I should temper my previous statement of the Z10e being BHSE-tier by qualifying that this only applies with the X9000. A lot of people have said that the X9000 benefits from synergy more than power, and I can agree there.
I then moved downstairs to compare the X9000 with the X1 on the BHSE. This time, the X1 didn't fare as well. There was less background noise so I could do some better comparisons. The X1 is still a "miniature" X9000 in overall sound signature, but the vocals are rougher and scratchier, and the treble is not as extended nor as smooth. The soundstage is noticeably smaller and while there is a pleasant increase in bass quantity, it seems to be a sort of hump that hurts the sense of definition and texture in the bass; it's a bit more "one-note" than bass on the X9000. The X1 is still really good value though. But the X9000 noticeably pulled ahead during this second demo in spaciousness, smoothness, and refinement.
One of the nice parts of CAF is that it's not just a headphone/IEM show, so I get to explore the traditional audio world too. And this was the highlight of the show this year:
An MBL system featuring the MBL 101 E MKII driven by a pair of MBL 9011 Mono amplifiers. They use spherical omnidirectional drivers (the silver shallot-shaped thing is actually the woofer) and the imaging from them was probably the most lifelike audio I have ever heard. When I was first listening, I looked around to see where the other speakers were ("are they hidden behind the plants?...") because the imaging was so large and wide that I didn't believe that those two funny-looking speakers were projecting all of that. When I brought my friend in to listen, he did the exact same thing! The positioning and space of the sound was unlike what I have heard from other two-channel speakers; there is no dead space between the speakers, it's not just a flat wall of sound anchored by the speakers, it's not like sound is being shot at me from a particular direction, but like there is a sound emanating into the room from a particular location.
I went to another room where they had these colossal electrostatic speakers that stretched from the floor to the ceiling, some 10 feet tall, and the imaging on those wasn't as convincing as what these diminutive MBL speakers produced. Not just the directionality, but the sense that each instrument is a sound source in the room that's radiating sound all around it into the room, as a real instrument would do. That sense of "radiative" rather than "directed" sound - which I call "openness" - is what I seek in headphones as well, and all of my favorite headphones exhibit this quality. Of course, a headphone must do this within the confines of the head-stage and this requires a different set of tricks in order to produce the illusion, but that's the sort of quality I look for, both in speakers, and in headphones. And I don't think I have ever encountered an example of openness as clear as I what heard from the MBL setup.
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THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.
- Thread starter goldwerger
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nfandi
1000+ Head-Fier
Does that include the price of the source and DAC?That whole MBL system retails for $400K. I am glad to hear it sounds good.
tutetibiimperes
500+ Head-Fier
The MBL system I heard at the Florida Audio Expo a couple years back remains one of the best speaker systems I’ve ever heard.
They were running it off of a high end reel to reel deck and the dynamics and impact are like nothing I’ve heard before. Full concert volume for some Nirvana and Kenny Loggins live album and zero distortion.
They were running it off of a high end reel to reel deck and the dynamics and impact are like nothing I’ve heard before. Full concert volume for some Nirvana and Kenny Loggins live album and zero distortion.
Death_Block
Headphoneus Supremus
Lol those YouTube comments
TheMiddleSky
Headphoneus Supremus
On Sunday, I had nothing to do in the afternoon and I had paid for a multi-day pass to CAF, so I went back a third time just before the show ended to revisit a few things. I confirmed that the LTA chain is bad for the CRBN 2 while I much preferred the Bricasti + Phantom combo, but when I was speaking with the two Audeze reps, one of them liked the LTA chain better. So YMMV, as always. The LTA Aero DAC was using the Ray Reserve 6SN7 tubes on the last day, and I thought they did sound a bit better than the stock GE 12SN7 tubes. I didn't listen long enough to get a good sense of the differences, but they sounded a bit richer and textured.
The issue with the CRBN 2 on the LTA chain is that the vocals are very prominent, but also very smooth. If a singer is that close to me, I expect to hear the spit in their mouth and the ripple and rumble of air passing over their vocal cords, all of those little sounds that accompany a voice. But those are smoothed over on the CRBN, so it sound unconvincing to me, like an airbrushed picture (or an AI generated image) of a person where the skin is impossibly smooth. The Bricasti chain provided more impact and dynamics, so those little gradations in sound are better rendered and it sounds more real to me.
Funnily enough, I didn't get the "smoothed over" sense when I listened to the X9000 on the LTA chain. I thought it was very well textured and detailed there. Practically on par with the BHSE. I suppose I should temper my previous statement of the Z10e being BHSE-tier by qualifying that this only applies with the X9000. A lot of people have said that the X9000 benefits from synergy more than power, and I can agree there.
I then moved downstairs to compare the X9000 with the X1 on the BHSE. This time, the X1 didn't fare as well. There was less background noise so I could do some better comparisons. The X1 is still a "miniature" X9000 in overall sound signature, but the vocals are rougher and scratchier, and the treble is not as extended nor as smooth. The soundstage is noticeably smaller and while there is a pleasant increase in bass quantity, it seems to be a sort of hump that hurts the sense of definition and texture in the bass; it's a bit more "one-note" than bass on the X9000. The X1 is still really good value though. But the X9000 noticeably pulled ahead during this second demo in spaciousness, smoothness, and refinement.
One of the nice parts of CAF is that it's not just a headphone/IEM show, so I get to explore the traditional audio world too. And this was the highlight of the show this year:
An MBL system featuring the MBL 101 E MKII driven by a pair of MBL 9011 Mono amplifiers. They use spherical omnidirectional drivers (the silver shallot-shaped thing is actually the woofer) and the imaging from them was probably the most lifelike audio I have ever heard. When I was first listening, I looked around to see where the other speakers were ("are they hidden behind the plants?...") because the imaging was so large and wide that I didn't believe that those two funny-looking speakers were projecting all of that. When I brought my friend in to listen, he did the exact same thing! The positioning and space of the sound was unlike what I have heard from other two-channel speakers; there is no dead space between the speakers, it's not just a flat wall of sound anchored by the speakers, it's not like sound is being shot at me from a particular direction, but like there is a sound emanating into the room from a particular location.
I went to another room where they had these colossal electrostatic speakers that stretched from the floor to the ceiling, some 10 feet tall, and the imaging on those wasn't as convincing as what these diminutive MBL speakers produced. Not just the directionality, but the sense that each instrument is a sound source in the room that's radiating sound all around it into the room, as a real instrument would do. That sense of "radiative" rather than "directed" sound - which I call "openness" - is what I seek in headphones as well, and all of my favorite headphones exhibit this quality. Of course, a headphone must do this within the confines of the head-stage and this requires a different set of tricks in order to produce the illusion, but that's the sort of quality I look for, both in speakers, and in headphones. And I don't think I have ever encountered an example of openness as clear as I what heard from the MBL setup.
I still remember few years ago I llistened to MBL set up (along with DCS Vivaldi stacks and JMF Monoblock Amplifier). The set up played Norah Jones song, and seems like nobody's really care as they speak to each other casually. It sounded ok, but nothing special. Then the owner of the show changed the song to Scala & Kolacny Brothers. The whole room suddenly quite and everyone hold their breath. It felt like the wall behind speaker turned into full of choir in standing position, singing beautifully for all of us. Completely ruin my enjoyment to listen Scala & Kolacny songs with headphone till now lol.
Since we are talking 2 channel (for a moment)
“my afternoon”.
Forget about the cost otherwise it is not about the music which is the reason.
I feel as though I can hear every decision the sound engineer made whilst being fully engaged with the artist vision to me that is priceless.
All of 2 channel demo shows I've seen add some plants for room reflection cancellations. I like the clean look you have there
Conan1974
500+ Head-Fier
If the walls are made of wood, it should be fine.
Double drywall acoustic glue, spray foam between the studs shaved flat. There are no reflective sound issues with the 2 channel system, all I needed was the carpet on the floor in front of the two speakers. Likely due to the hay loft space this originated from and all the added steel and structure, the windows are also high on the wall that has windows, even the television on the wall behind is not causing unwanted reflections. It was a plan the guess work seemed to pay off, no idea it would work had to just build it and see, then if necessary deal with any issues, got lucky. That said as I produce more and more work the walls will gain additional things as well as the room, still only been a year since I went live here.If the walls are made of wood, it should be fine.
I'm guessing Euforia isn't a great match with Sus, my thought would be to spend less on the DAC and look to upgrade your tubes to Envy. Tbh, IMHO Schiit Bifrost will get you 80% of Holo May.I totally get it re: a DACs impact on the chain. And that’s the dilemma. For a few different reasons I swapped out my DAC and sound quality went backwards. I love my Bakoon 13r Amp, it’s a beast with Susvara and Caldera. So I’m torn putting all of my eggs into a new high end DAC, or spend a bit less on the DAC and swapping out my tube amp (currently have Felix Euforia EVO). Those are the two options I’m considering
I totally get it re: a DACs impact on the chain. And that’s the dilemma. For a few different reasons I swapped out my DAC and sound quality went backwards. I love my Bakoon 13r Amp, it’s a beast with Susvara and Caldera. So I’m torn putting all of my eggs into a new high end DAC, or spend a bit less on the DAC and swapping out my tube amp (currently have Felix Euforia EVO). Those are the two options I’m considering
If you're sticking with the Sus and Caldera, I'd just go all out on the DAC IMHO. Lots of great options such as T+A 200 DAC, LaIV Harmony, Yggdrasil A2/GS2/MIB, Chord DAVE, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Lampizator, PD MPD-8, Wavedream Signature. With tube amps, you're still getting bottlenecked with DAC anyways whereas the 23R will definitely scale with better DACs in the chain
Conan1974
500+ Head-Fier
Additional things - You mean furniture?Double drywall acoustic glue, spray foam between the studs shaved flat. There are no reflective sound issues with the 2 channel system, all I needed was the carpet on the floor in front of the two speakers. Likely due to the hay loft space this originated from and all the added steel and structure, the windows are also high on the wall that has windows, even the television on the wall behind is not causing unwanted reflections. It was a plan the guess work seemed to pay off, no idea it would work had to just build it and see, then if necessary deal with any issues, got lucky. That said as I produce more and more work the walls will gain additional things as well as the room, still only been a year since I went live here.
Simpeler
500+ Head-Fier
So I assume here that many if you have a dedicated dac with a dedicated amp
How would you say a dap + amp compares against a dac + amp.
Purely for sound quality, what would you gain, and could you name the dac or dap you feel would excel amongst the TOTL offerings
How would you say a dap + amp compares against a dac + amp.
Purely for sound quality, what would you gain, and could you name the dac or dap you feel would excel amongst the TOTL offerings
You have received advice from both ends of the spectrum: max out the DAC and pair whatever amp comes next or go low on DAC and max out the amp. I tend to be somewhere in between: half your budget between DAC and amp so they get the most out of each other. This hobby is non-static anyway. Sooner or later, you will change/upgrade either the amp or the DAC.I totally get it re: a DACs impact on the chain. And that’s the dilemma. For a few different reasons I swapped out my DAC and sound quality went backwards. I love my Bakoon 13r Amp, it’s a beast with Susvara and Caldera. So I’m torn putting all of my eggs into a new high end DAC, or spend a bit less on the DAC and swapping out my tube amp (currently have Felix Euforia EVO). Those are the two options I’m considering
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