THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.
Oct 10, 2024 at 12:25 AM Post #3,856 of 7,558
Sensitivity-wise, the Immanis and Susvara OG are quite similar in my experience. Based on my rather limited testing, Immanis will reflect your chain to an even higher degree than will Susvara. I use a speaker amp to drive both, driven by an Audio Research tube preamp, with very satisfying results. I have no firsthand experience with the Cayin amp, unfortunately.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 12:30 AM Post #3,857 of 7,558
Thank you! They came with my used HD650 and I wanted to know if they are original or if I have to swap them out. There is only one set of pads in the pictures. I think by skinny ones you mean the foam inserts. Sorry, I didn’t clarify that earlier. So you’d say the pads seem to be original?
Lol, I guess I didn't look closely enough at the "skinny pads". The pads look original to me.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 12:42 AM Post #3,858 of 7,558
Controversial opinion alert, but in my recent listening sessions, I am increasingly gravitating towards the Focal Clear OG instead of the Focal Utopia.



Let me explain why I think this is the case. I am not a "graphs guy" and those of you who have seen question the Harman methodology in my YouTube videos will know this, but Focal headphones do graph well, so let me try to explain using graphs.





Tonality: First and foremost, the Focal Clear has almost 2 decibals more subbass than the Utopia and on listening, this somehow comes off as much more! The Clear sounds quite flat to me in the bass to be honest, or in other words, very well extended, which makes for an exciting rendition of kick drums, bass guitars, and so forth. Both headphones are known to punch hard, however, and that is said to be an outcome of the Focal driver excursion abilities, although the punch doesn't necessarily "appear" in graphs.

I find myself enjoying the less-filled out upper mids of the Clear OG (note the relative lack of meat in the 4-6 Khz range) because I can be sensitive to this region, especially when I have not slept well the night before. Meanwhile, the Utopia is more evenly filled out in the 2.5-5 Khz range. That being said, the Utopia upper mids, especially vocals are ever-so-slightly pushed back in the mix, relative to midbass, and relative to the Clear OG, and it still doesn't lack clarity, which is testimony to the resolving capabilities of the Utopia driver. I personally prefer the more intimate presentation of the Clear more.

When it comes to treble, while the Utopia eschews mid-treble presence, basically being quite dark in the region, it still has a 6 Khz peak. The Clear however has a more balance series of peaks at 6 Khz, 8 Khz and 10 Khz, which to me, provide more attack to guitars, more shimmer to instruments, and air in vocals and in the ambience. Overall, these peaks are nothing dastardly and on an absolute level, the 6 Khz peak of the Utopia has far more energy relative to the rest of the presentation which can be irksome. The Clear, on the other hand, more energy around 10 Khz, bu again, nothing dastardly, and I appreciate the treble performance of the Clear.

Technicalities: Technicalities-wise, honestly, either headphone works fine for me. Yes, the Utopia resolves finer details more evidently; on certain tracks with the right equipment can convey a better sense of stage, both in terms of depth and even width, to a degree. But in terms of macrodynamic contrast, especially in regard to "bass slam", owing to the stronger subbass presence of the Clear, I actually find the Clear more complete in its presentation. With most source chains, I find the Utopia to be "wanting" in this area. I just miss the subbass presence here and it begins to become a deal breaker for me. The Utopia's 6 Khz peak certainly aids to a sense of sharpness of snare drum hits, but it can be a bit zingy sometimes, and makes the Utopia incessantly source-picky.

Looks-wise, I find the latest iteration of the Utopia to be a bit overdone. I preferred the OG Utopia aesthetics because I found to be more congrunet in the minutae of its design language with the rest of the Focal family. It actually looked like what a Focal flagship should look like. Whereas the 2022 version looks like a "forced" upgrade, and perhaps not just aesthetically. Although, there isn't a chasm of tonal difference between the Utopia OG and the Utopia 2022, I much preferred the presentation of the OG, which sounded more alive in the treble for me.

So that's it from me for now, comparing two well-worn headphones, but I still enjoy revisting the golden oldies, and getting re-acquainted with them.


I never connected to the Utopia; always appreciated what it does, but simply didn't engage me persoanlly. Every now and then, I consider getting a set to try again, wondering if on another amp, a new synergy may emerge (and that may well be so). That said, I can't recall if I ever gave the Clear a decent hearing. You're piquing my curiosity now.. perhaps at CanJam Dallas, if they have a set, I'll give it a try!
 
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Oct 10, 2024 at 12:58 AM Post #3,859 of 7,558
I am not an owner of a set (perhaps @Hiker816, @timeslip, or @BassicScience can comment?) but what I have experienced demo-ing it was that the Immanis is greatly impacted by the choice of amp; more so than most headphones
I also haven't gotten a chance to hear the Cayin Ha2a. I've tried the Immanis on a lot of other amps, though--a lot. But all have generally fallen into the more powerful end of the spectrum. That said, none of them came remotely close to breaking a sweat with the Immanis. IMO, the Immanis sounds very different on every amp, but I've never heard it sound bad. It's just a matter of personal taste. But maybe I'd be proven wrong with lower-output amps.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 1:04 AM Post #3,860 of 7,558
How would describe the difference in sound of these two great headphones?
Sure, happy to, do note that my impressions are not absolute, but more in comparison to each other...

Empyrean OG is like snuggling under a warm blanket with it's lush, fullsome mid-bass and lower midrange that I find extremely intoxicating. Empyrean is pulled back a bit in the upper midrange and treble, which detracts from it's technical ability to resolve fine detail, but does make it extremely relaxing and easy to listen to for long hours at a time with zero fatigue. A powerful solid-state amp will clean it up a little bit, but Empyrean will never be a particularly technical headphone. ZMF build quality is top-notch, but Meze is still class-leading imho, and side-by-side I'd say the Empy is the better-made headphone.

Caldera is much more "correct" by comparison, the biggest difference to me being reduced mid-bass and lower midrange. It's still plenty warm, but I hear more sub-bass on one end and upper midrange on the other compared to Empy. To me, Caldera's real magic is it's energetic, yet very controlled upper mid area, which brings vocals and guitars especially to the fore in way that really grabs my attention. Soundstage-wise Caldera feels wider and more spacious left-to-right, and has more accurate instrument placement; Empyrean is much thicker in the middle, and while somewhat compressed-feeling by comparison has excellent front-to-back depth to it.

From a "purists" perspective, Caldera would always be considered the better headphone, and my head always tells me this. But my heart will never let go of the OG Empyrean.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 2:35 AM Post #3,861 of 7,558
I never connected to the Utopia; always appreciated what it does, but simply didn't engage me persoanlly. Every now and then, I consider getting a set to try again, wondering if on another amp, a new synergy may emerge (and that may wll be so). That said, I can't recall if I ever gave the Clear a decent hearing. You're piquing my curiosity now.. perhaps at CanJam Dallas, if they have a set, I'll give it a try!
I never connected with any of the Focals tbh. They are good headphones, just not quite for me. Both the Clear and Utopia sound very dynamic, with a bit of sub-bass roll off and a brighter treble, plus relatively smaller soundstage. From Focal I think the 2022 Utopia has the best sound so far, it is a little warmer, they rounded off the treble. Some Focal fans don't like it, but this is closer to my personal preference. Unfortunately, sub-bass still rolls off (dynamic drivers after all), and I still find other headphones more engaging and more pleasant (ZMF, Meze). That said, Focal deserves a place on the colour palette of TOTL headphones. There should be something for everyone. :wink:
I also haven't gotten a chance to hear the Cayin Ha2a. I've tried the Immanis on a lot of other amps, though--a lot. But all have generally fallen into the more powerful end of the spectrum. That said, none of them came remotely close to breaking a sweat with the Immanis. IMO, the Immanis sounds very different on every amp, but I've never heard it sound bad. It's just a matter of personal taste. But maybe I'd be proven wrong with lower-output amps.
Cayin HA-2A is an absolutely superb little tube amp. It sounded surprisingly good with my Caldera and IMO represents excellent value. That said, if I was about to drop $10K for a pair of headphones, I would probably look for an amp a couple of classes above.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 3:03 AM Post #3,862 of 7,558
Guys anyone who own Raal Immanis, is it really hard to drive and require totl amplifier with it? Is Cayin Ha2a enough or will definitely bottle neck the immanis? Thanks in advance.
The Ha-2a has only 1W of output power. This is likely to be too little to fully appreappreciate the Immanis.
However it really depends on your listening volume. On low volume it might do just fine.
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 4:06 AM Post #3,864 of 7,558
Controversial opinion alert, but in my recent listening sessions, I am increasingly gravitating towards the Focal Clear OG instead of the Focal Utopia.



Let me explain why I think this is the case. I am not a "graphs guy" and those of you who have seen question the Harman methodology in my YouTube videos will know this, but Focal headphones do graph well, so let me try to explain using graphs.





Tonality: First and foremost, the Focal Clear has almost 2 decibals more subbass than the Utopia and on listening, this somehow comes off as much more! The Clear sounds quite flat to me in the bass to be honest, or in other words, very well extended, which makes for an exciting rendition of kick drums, bass guitars, and so forth. Both headphones are known to punch hard, however, and that is said to be an outcome of the Focal driver excursion abilities, although the punch doesn't necessarily "appear" in graphs.

I find myself enjoying the less-filled out upper mids of the Clear OG (note the relative lack of meat in the 4-6 Khz range) because I can be sensitive to this region, especially when I have not slept well the night before. Meanwhile, the Utopia is more evenly filled out in the 2.5-5 Khz range. That being said, the Utopia upper mids, especially vocals are ever-so-slightly pushed back in the mix, relative to midbass, and relative to the Clear OG, and it still doesn't lack clarity, which is testimony to the resolving capabilities of the Utopia driver. I personally prefer the more intimate presentation of the Clear more.

When it comes to treble, while the Utopia eschews mid-treble presence, basically being quite dark in the region, it still has a 6 Khz peak. The Clear however has a more balance series of peaks at 6 Khz, 8 Khz and 10 Khz, which to me, provide more attack to guitars, more shimmer to instruments, and air in vocals and in the ambience. Overall, these peaks are nothing dastardly and on an absolute level, the 6 Khz peak of the Utopia has far more energy relative to the rest of the presentation which can be irksome. The Clear, on the other hand, more energy around 10 Khz, bu again, nothing dastardly, and I appreciate the treble performance of the Clear.

Technicalities: Technicalities-wise, honestly, either headphone works fine for me. Yes, the Utopia resolves finer details more evidently; on certain tracks with the right equipment can convey a better sense of stage, both in terms of depth and even width, to a degree. But in terms of macrodynamic contrast, especially in regard to "bass slam", owing to the stronger subbass presence of the Clear, I actually find the Clear more complete in its presentation. With most source chains, I find the Utopia to be "wanting" in this area. I just miss the subbass presence here and it begins to become a deal breaker for me. The Utopia's 6 Khz peak certainly aids to a sense of sharpness of snare drum hits, but it can be a bit zingy sometimes, and makes the Utopia incessantly source-picky.

Looks-wise, I find the latest iteration of the Utopia to be a bit overdone. I preferred the OG Utopia aesthetics because I found to be more congrunet in the minutae of its design language with the rest of the Focal family. It actually looked like what a Focal flagship should look like. Whereas the 2022 version looks like a "forced" upgrade, and perhaps not just aesthetically. Although, there isn't a chasm of tonal difference between the Utopia OG and the Utopia 2022, I much preferred the presentation of the OG, which sounded more alive in the treble for me.

So that's it from me for now, comparing two well-worn headphones, but I still enjoy revisting the golden oldies, and getting re-acquainted with them.

Sell your 2022 Utopia and grab an OG? Sounds like it would be more up your street

Edit: although, thinking about it, 2022 has more sub bass than the OG iirc
 
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Oct 10, 2024 at 10:00 AM Post #3,866 of 7,558
This is my first post here. See, I am primarily a portable audio guy - iem, earbuds, dongles, DAPs, and the likes. However, few months back I felt that I am pretty much sorted on the iem and earbud fronts, and then my curiosity for headphones picked up.

Over the years I have heard a few headphones, Sennheiser hd660, hd650, hd660s2, Focal Clear MG, Elegia, Fostex T50RP LSS Paradox Slant Mod, Hifiman Edition XS, Sundara, ZMF Bokeh, etc. (I think that is the exhaustive list.)
Not mentioning the Audio Technica ATH-SJ55, PRO500MK2, AKG K67 Tiesto, Denon Urban Raver AH-D320 that I bought in my beginner days as those were not serious audiophile headphones.

To be very honest, the only one that impressed me was the modded Fostex, all the rest did not click with me. But the power requirement of the Fostex prohibited me from acquiring one.

In my journey, after scouring through head-fi pages, I stumbled upon the name JM Audio Editions. Dug deeper into the dedicated thread, had discussions with a few owners, and then finally connected with John Massaria himself. And then, I finally bought a XTC legend black on black edition from the classifieds, shipped it to John for a retuning, and finally got them in hand. Fell in love once I changed the pads to the Fuzzy pads.

Loved it so much that I couldn't stop gushing over it everywhere. Felt the midrange a touch thin though. John said with the XTC1.5 that will improve too. Took me a heartbeat to post my XTC on sale, got sold and hand-delivered that very day, along with the payment of XTC1.5 (32 Ohm Beryllium, Warm with elevated details tuning). This was in June.

Then began the wait for my preferred woods, new headbands, and new case. When everything finally came together last week, it took John one day to make my headphone and ship them off to me. I got them in my hand two days ago.

And since then I have found it extremely difficult to pull them off my ears. I am simply getting lost in its sound.

Why do I love it so much? It has the perfect balance for me. Deep subbass, punchy midbass, highly transparent and detailed mids with sufficient body, clear and extended treble with correct note weight, ample amount of energy, and lots of details, a nice holographic soundstage that extends out of the heard, and immaculate imaging. On top of all these, it is extremely easily drivable: my portable sources make it sing mellifluously. This is what makes it all the more special.

Fun fact: the 7N OCC copper litz Copperhead 2 cable is used both in the external cable as well as the internal wiring. The wood here is Ziricote.

1000220792.jpg
 
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Oct 10, 2024 at 10:12 AM Post #3,867 of 7,558
I am increasingly gravitating towards the Focal Clear OG instead of the Focal Utopia.

I can see that. I preferred the Clear to the Utopia, too, and owned both of them, albeit not at the same time. It might be a function of having owned the Clear earlier in my headphone journey, and having loved it at that time as it was the best headphone I'd yet had the privilege of owning, but I found it a bit more exciting than the Utopia. The bass presentation had much to do with it. My amp pairings may also have been a factor; I found the Clear to change in its presentation quite significantly with different amps: with some, it was remarkably punchy and percussive; with others, it could be a bit soft and dull; some tube amps made it a bit too flabby, rounding off the transient attacks too much; other amps made the treble a bit crystalline, and so on.

The same can be said, of course, for the Utopia. But by the time I got the Utopia I had a superior chain, e.g. with a DNA Stratus v3 which some have lauded as synergistic with the Utopia, and I found it a bit boring, frankly. Like @goldwerger, I just couldn't connect with it. I did experiment a bit with amp pairings but didn't land on one that I liked, particularly, and in the end I let it go because the narrow, small soundstage wasn't to my liking.

But then again, a year or two later, I got to hear a friend's Utopia from an outstanding, synergistic chain: a totaldac or Bricasti DAC (I forget which one) and a DSHA-3F. The Utopia was breathtakingly good, with absolutely beautiful, sparkling and clear treble (with no nasties whatsoever), gloriously smooth and rich mids, and not the fullest or most robust bass, but a bass that was tight and punchy and well controlled. The soundstage was better than I'd remembered it being, but then it might just have been that everything else sounded so good I wasn't bothered as much by it. I still have a fond, keen memory of that lovely and surprising listening session.

Given the great price it goes for now, I regularly think about picking up another Clear. It's one of those relatively affordable headphones that has an excellent price-to-performance ratio. I'd say it sits at a key inflection point, after which diminishing returns tend to kick in quite hard. You might have to fork out quite a bit more cash to get a meaningful upgrade - say $1500 (the Clear's original MSRP, as it happens), at least for me. If for some reason I ever needed to downsize my collection, I could see myself going back to it.
 
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Oct 10, 2024 at 10:13 AM Post #3,868 of 7,558
@Ace Bee Congratulations.
Very nice looking headphone.
Can You maybe post some more pictures? The pads, from the side . To give an idea how big they are.
One more thing - how would You describe the sound characteristics - is it a sound closer to Your head/ears like Focal or Sennheizer headphones or more distant , like ZMF headphones? ( this is how i hear the ZMF products)
 
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Oct 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Post #3,869 of 7,558
This is my first post here. See, I am primarily a portable audio guy - iem, earbuds, dongles, DAPs, and the likes. However, few months back I felt that I am pretty much sorted on the iem and earbud fronts, and then my curiosity for headphones picked up.

Over the years I have heard a few headphones, Sennheiser hd660, hd650, hd660s2, Focal (will update names later), Fostex (will update the name later), Hifiman Edition XS, Sundara, ZMF Bokeh, etc. (I think that is the exhaustive list.)
Not mentioning the Audio Technica ATH-SJ55, PRO500MK2, AKG K67 Tiesto, Denon Urban Raver AH-D320 that I bought in my beginner days as those were not serious audiophile headphones.

To be very honest, the only one that impressed me was the modded Fostex, all the rest did not click with me. But the power requirement of the Fostex prohibited me from acquiring one.

In my journey, after scouring through head-fi pages, I stumbled upon the name JM Audio Editions. Dug deeper into the dedicated thread, had discussions with a few owners, and then finally connected with John Massaria himself. And then, I finally bought a XTC legend black on black edition from the classifieds, shipped it to John for a retuning, and finally got them in hand. Fell in love once I changed the pads to the Fuzzy pads.

Loved it so much that I couldn't stop gushing over it everywhere. Felt the midrange a touch thin though. John said with the XTC1.5 that will improve too. Took me a heartbeat to post my XTC on sale, got sold and hand-delivered that very day, along with the payment of XTC1.5 (32 Ohm Beryllium, Warm with elevated details tuning). This was in June.

Then began the wait for my preferred woods, new headbands, and new case. When everything finally came together last week, it took John one day to make my headphone and ship them off to me. I got them in my hand two days ago.

And since then I have found it extremely difficult to pull them off my ears. I am simply getting lost in its sound.

Why do I love it so much? It has the perfect balance for me. Deep subbass, punchy midbass, highly transparent and detailed mids with sufficient body, clear and extended treble with correct note weight, ample amount of energy, and lots of details, a nice holographic soundstage that extends out of the heard, and immaculate imaging. On top of all these, it is extremely easily drivable: my portable sources make it sing mellifluously. This is what makes it all the more special.

Fun fact: the 7N OCC copper litz Copperhead 2 cable is used both in the external cable as well as the internal wiring as well. The wood here is Ziricote.

1000220792.jpg

Thanks for sharing your story, loved reading it.

Those headphones look utterly gorgeous! Congrats!!
 
Oct 10, 2024 at 10:45 AM Post #3,870 of 7,558
@Ace Bee Congratulations.
Very nice looking headphone.
Can You maybe post some more pictures? The pads, from the side . To give an idea how big they are.
One more thing - how would You describe the sound characteristics - is it a sound closer to Your head/ears like Focal or Sennheizer headphones or more distant , like ZMF headphones? ( this is how i hear the ZMF products)
Unfortunately I left them at office as no time to hear music at home (new dad). Please wait till Monday, will share detailed pictures of all the accessories, mounted and unmounted.

I would classify the sound as widespread, distant as you said. It's bigger than the Bokeh for sure, as I A/B-ed them. The others, from memory, only the modded Fostex T50RP had a similar stage, all the others were more intimate.
 

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