[BIG POPPA]

If one set of cables is copper, one set is silver, anyone can tell. It is not rocket science. They are that different.

 

[Real Man of Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif If one set of cables is copper, one set is silver, anyone can tell. It is not rocket science. They are that different.

Then why is there no data to support that?
Why do people fail simple tests to prove that?

 

[BIG POPPA]

Go to a high end audio store. One that sells Silver speaker cables. They will retail 1K and more at the cheapest. Silver is a precious metal so it will be a very expensive experiment if you want to buy them to try them out. Ask them to let you hear the difference. Most likely they will be glad to if they are not busy. One of my first jobs was at a Cal Stereo about 30 years ago. Audio has always been in my life. Head-fi in the last few years. This is just a fun hobby for me, can't take it too serious. My wife would find me another hobby.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Go to a high end audio store. One that sells Silver speaker cables. They will retail 1K and more at the cheapest. Silver is a precious metal so it will be a very expensive experiment if you want to buy them to try them out. Ask them to let you hear the difference. Most likely they will be glad to if they are not busy. One of my first jobs was at a Cal Stereo about 30 years ago. Audio has always been in my life. Head-fi in the last few years. This is just a fun hobby for me, can't take it too serious. My wife would find me another hobby.

Yet when I measured silver and copper cables in a real world circuit I could not find any meaningful differences between them, both silver and copper had an admirably flat FR and inaudibly low noise.

Surely if silver and copper are really different that must show up in the FR ?

 

[BIG POPPA]

Just curious, what copper and silver cables did you test for comparison?

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just curious, what copper and silver cables did you test for comparison?

Audioquest G-Snake (Solid copper)
Audioquest Sidewinder (Solid copper)
Zu Oxyfuel
DH labs BL-1 Series II (SPC)
Stranded braided Silver cable from Hong Kong
BJC (Belden 1641)
Tartan (stranded)
Monoprice (stranded)
Stock stranded unshielded copper cable

 

[BIG POPPA]

I can see why you got your findings with the cables you used. Try to listen to some Nordost, Oyaide, Furutech, Synergistic Research, And maybe some Kimber Kable stuff. BJC and Tartans is what it is. Best for the buck stuff. I should now, they are a few minutes from my house and have been to the shop many times. There are alot of awesome cables out there. It is fun to go out to audition them. I am shopping for a new cd player for the meet coming up in Seattle so I have been auditioning a lot of gear lately. Going to a high end shop this evening so I will be listening to the MIT Oracles. They retail around 30K a pair.

 

[Bullseye]

^LOL

Laughing at post nature due to the thread it is located in...

 

[Donald North]

Here is a patent I found by Goertz regarding characteristic impedance of speaker cable, where they show some differences in 12kHz square wave performance between standard speaker cable and one according to their invention.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/539...33&stemming=on

You need to create an account and login to see the figures.

If/how this manifests audibly, I do not know.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can see why you got your findings with the cables you used. Try to listen to some Nordost, Oyaide, Furutech, Synergistic Research, And maybe some Kimber Kable stuff. BJC and Tartans is what it is. Best for the buck stuff. I should now, they are a few minutes from my house and have been to the shop many times. There are alot of awesome cables out there. It is fun to go out to audition them. I am shopping for a new cd player for the meet coming up in Seattle so I have been auditioning a lot of gear lately. Going to a high end shop this evening so I will be listening to the MIT Oracles. They retail around 30K a pair.

The laws of physics are wholly indifferent to the cost of components. Given that the price differential between my faithful stock cable and the most expensive one I tested ($139) was a factor 180x and that this 180x multiplier did not in fact concord with any notable difference in FR you will forgive for being skeptical that addin another $100 or $200 or weven $1000 to the mix would make any difference

 

[Bullseye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif The laws of physics are wholly indifferent to the cost of components. Given that the price differential between my faithful stock cable and the most expensive one I tested ($139) was a factor 180x and that this 180x multiplier did not in fact concord with any notable difference in FR you will forgive for being skeptical that addin another $100 or $200 or weven $1000 to the mix would make any difference

That is the polite way of answering what I did with a "LOL"

What I found specially funny was that "best -bang- for buck" as a way of telling you "it should sound different".

 

[DoYouRight]

I wish I lived near Seattle as most of the awesome amp designers, and high end audio shops are near there, must be the grunge thing brought stores around.

 

[pdupiano]

Just out of curiosity, do you know what they used to produce the wave forms? A majority of the "real" claims about cable differences depend on their Capacitance/inductances etc... In fact some cables (not for audio for scientific research purposes) cost over 2k for 1 foot, because of strict capacitance/inductance tolerances -so we can quickly see how important inductance and capacitance really affects the system (not sure if that applies to audio though, considering the equipment that my prof usesses is much more sensitive).

The reason I ask is because all of the waveforms placed on the site, are stable waveforms, which ... isn't the case for audio equipment. And since capacitance greatly affects the transient response of signals, I would be very interested if anyone had data regarding transient responses with "super cables" and stock cables -I think that's really the main difference.

 

[Bullseye]

^Have you read the main article? Maybe you should

 

[pdupiano]

Dont be smug that's an american quality, aren't you europeans supposed to be better than us or something?

As for reading the article I did, but it does not cover the testing method, it only covers what devices are used (its in bold so I saw it right away).

The wave forms that were used, appear to be constant rather than transient responses. Capacitance and Inductance only matter with transient system (aka audio) and doesnt matter with stable signals (which is what I think may have been used in the testing).

Additionally, Inductance is a function of the distance from one wire to another, it does not make sense to me that increasing the distance between wires should increase parasitic inductance (it would be the other way around). Think of it as two drivers driving side by side on either a 2 lane road or a 4 lane road. On the 2 lane road, if one driver suddenly moves towards the other one, the other will immediately react and drive off the road or to the side of the road. On the 4 lane road, the other driver may not react at all. So parasitic inductance should decrease with separation of the cables, not with sticking them together (unless the original article is referring to keeping the ground and signal wires together -that makes sense, but the other way doesnt and should be clearly stated).

By in large this article uses static based calculations rather than measuring transient responses. Take a look at this graph from HeadRoom:
Build A Graph - HeadRoom: Stereo Headphones, Amps & DACs, Wireless, Noise Canceling, Ear Canal, Earbud, Audio Cables & Accessories[0]=363&graphID[1]=373&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=4&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones

Its a graph comparing an SR225 to an SR125. If I remember correctly one of the differences between the two are their cables + mesh. These two things affect the transient response of the headphones, demonstrating the need to look into transient response rather than static response (which is what I believe the paper was about)

I also checked Nueva Electronica, is that a scientific journal or a magazine?

Don't be smug, you haven't found the truth. Like a lot of people you are letting your knowledge and glimpse of a truth cloud your mind and judgement, making yourself feel better and elevating your ego to dangerous levels. Get a grip on yourself.

Then again I just realized the link I posted are for headphone cables rather than interconnects. And btw for such an all encompassing "truth about cables" I find it strange that impedance was not covered as well as making cables that match speaker impedance.