[EdipisReks]

i'd say that much (perhaps most, especially in "accessories" and "peripherals") of the gear bought by audio hobbyists is pixie dust, wishful thinking, or flat out fraud, but i question a few of his conclusions.

poorly made cables can measure differently from well made cables, though i doubt it's audible in some cases (given the lengths and frequencies involved), and i think that the price difference between "good" cables and "bad" cables is closer to $50 than it is to $1000. tubes can measure significantly different than solid state devices (though sometimes they don't, depending on the implementation), and tubes of different make measure differently. moving parts can have a small break in period, though again i doubt it's truly that audible, especially given the very short time that humans can remember exactly what something sounds i like. i would venture that most break/burn in happening somewhere in the neocortex. i don't believe in wire, or caps, or anything of that nature changing greatly over time, though some particularly large caps may take a short time to fully charge, and i don't believe in the long burn in cycles for certain headphones that some people claim. really bad power can also affect things, but i think it's only an real issue if there are fluctuations in overall output greater than what the transformers in your gear can deal with.

if anyone wants to spend $10,000 on cabling, go right on ahead, if it makes you happy. just remember that the most powerful audio equalizer is the brain, and hearing something doesn't make it so. i personally realize that audio is a highly subjective hobby and i approach it, and appreciate it, as such. this doesn't mean that i throw my rationality and skepticism out the window. i think that Peter Aczel is being a bit bombastic, and might be going a little overboard, but given the outright fraud that is being perpetuated by many sellers of audio related gear and the hostility that many audiophiles have towards the very science that makes their hobby possible, i can't blame him.

 

[TheGhostWhoWalks]

You know, I remember taking my first good system up to my audiophile friend's house with my ICs, replacing them with his ICs, and being able to hear the difference for myself. The music was so much more transparent, less muddier, there was a bigger soundstage, fuller bass... I didn't WANT to believe it. His cables were $1500 and mine were the standard radioshack brand. So, what? My mind was playing a trick on me? I was hearing things I wasn't? It doesn't make any sense...

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks You know, I remember taking my first good system up to my audiophile friend's house with my ICs, replacing them with his ICs, and being able to hear the difference for myself. The music was so much more transparent, less muddier, there was a bigger soundstage, fuller bass... I didn't WANT to believe it. His cables were $1500 and mine were the standard radioshack brand. So, what? My mind was playing a trick on me? I was hearing things I wasn't? It doesn't make any sense...

You'll learn theres no point in arguing. Let the deaf ones be deaf and enjoy your 1500 bucks cables, I know I do

 

[loveheadphones]

I hate it when someone says "well, if anyone ever took an elementery digital systems class, they'd agree with me.."

Just take one look at our DIY forum.

 

[K2Grey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks You know, I remember taking my first good system up to my audiophile friend's house with my ICs, replacing them with his ICs, and being able to hear the difference for myself. The music was so much more transparent, less muddier, there was a bigger soundstage, fuller bass... I didn't WANT to believe it. His cables were $1500 and mine were the standard radioshack brand. So, what? My mind was playing a trick on me? I was hearing things I wasn't? It doesn't make any sense...

This of course brings up the point that your mind doesn't work the way you necessarily think it does. For example, there are people who have been in drug testing programs who had previously received treatment which was unsuccessful and they didn't think the current treatment would be successful either... they got the placebo and got better. That doesn't make sense either, yet it happened.

 

[elrod-tom]

I just deleted a post that was a bit over the top, but other than that this has been a good thread thus far. Let's all try to keep it that way...thanks.

 

[TheGhostWhoWalks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey This of course brings up the point that your mind doesn't work the way you necessarily think it does. For example, there are people who have been in drug testing programs who had previously received treatment which was unsuccessful and they didn't think the current treatment would be successful either... they got the placebo and got better. That doesn't make sense either, yet it happened.

I would just really hate to think that I've spent all this money on a system when it's all just been a big trick that's been played on me thanks to my brain. :/ I just know everytime I listen to another system I can't help but think how crappy it sounds compared to mine. Then I go back to mine and I feel truly happy. And, really, isn't that what it's about?

 

[matt8268]

Nothing to do for me but dismiss this guy as ignorant. Many/most of his statements are simply false. I have heard clear differences where he says they are impossible. And I know the difference between a difference I think I might hear and one I definitely hear.

There may be some truth to some of his statements, but the article is wrong enough often enough that I am dismissing the whole thing. Must have been fun to write, though.

 

[markl]

The Web is so big now, it can accomodate virtually any viewpoint, and support it with a myriad of "information". There are easily enough people that will find that article persuasive, that it justifies its own existence, whether or not it's "true". There are easily enough audio skeptics to warrant their own website(s). So, does the mere fact that there exists enough infrastructure to suport these viewpoints, make them real or true? I don't think so...

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan You'll learn theres no point in arguing.

This is the most profound and salient point yet made about the issues raised by the article in question, which has been discussed in many previous threads. It resurfaces every few months and the same points are made over and over again.

 

[Publius]

Did The Audio Critic just get zotted? I'm getting errors both on the PDF and the homepage. Odd.

 

[cotdt]

one thing we are overlooking here when talking about measurement equipment versus the human ear is that the human ear has a far greater dynamic range capability and far greater ability to tell apart different tones. machines are only better at recognizing distortion and a wider frequency response and that's it, the human ears are superior in every other respect.

 

[Publius]

I agree with Aczel about, well, pretty much everything. But I also agree with you guys in that he is way too argumentative in how he presents stuff. He's very enjoyable for those of us who would rather use Cardas cables as garden hose rather than interconnects, but he's out there to piss people off more than actually do any convincing.

Also the current TAC is a singularly poor value. I paid $12 a few months ago and he's only posted one equipment review since then. I must admit though - his reviews are extremely thorough and well done, and are far more wholesome than anything I've seen in the usual audio mags like Stereophile. His reviews of Linkwitz's Orion speakers, and the Benchmark DAC1, are just a joy to read.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhostWhoWalks I would just really hate to think that I've spent all this money on a system when it's all just been a big trick that's been played on me thanks to my brain. :/ I just know everytime I listen to another system I can't help but think how crappy it sounds compared to mine. Then I go back to mine and I feel truly happy. And, really, isn't that what it's about?

The placebo affect goes both ways...I happen to love the way my system sounds with my cheap DIY/Radio Shack/"came free with my CD player" cables. I tried $900 interconnects and they made my system sound horrid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt8268 Nothing to do for me but dismiss this guy as ignorant.

Peter Aczel isn't ignorant. He's dogmatic, crotchety, and downright mean at times, but not ignorant. His career as an audio journalist spans nearly 30 years, and has presented to the Audio Engineering Society (not many audio journalists can say that). I don't necessarily trust him a whole lot more than I trust Stereophile, but I appreciate his viewpoint simply because it is the complete opposite of practically every other publication in the high-end press.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS This is the most profound and salient point yet made about the issues raised by the article in question, which has been discussed in many previous threads. It resurfaces every few months and the same points are made over and over again.

Gotta agree there. Lets learn to enjoy what we each believe is true and get on with it