The Stax Thread III
Mar 13, 2020 at 10:16 PM Post #18,346 of 25,261
Scammers? ... But I actually heard the clone thou. Its nice lol.

But the real question is why you leaving the Staxs game? You like something else? RAAL or something?

No, my life style has changed for a while now. I have been trying to keep Stax, but I don’t have time to dedicated toward it as much as I used to. Nowadays, I have to be running around too much. So I will downgrade to a small nearfield and dynamic phones (800s)

From those pictures. I know for a fact that the last one is from Kerry newest T2 design with many SMd and miniaturizing. The one next to is is from Mjolnir Audio, you can see the lettering
 
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Mar 13, 2020 at 10:21 PM Post #18,347 of 25,261
So I will downgrade to a small nearfield and dynamic phones.

Truest words ever. Same. Something easy and dynamic or Planar goodiness. Or something like a Panda THX or a similar thing like a Ananda BT

The future of headphones seems like it heading to a amp/dac inside of the headphone with BT capabilities. Traditional headphones most likely will fade.

Unless STAXs comes up with a BT 007 or 009 with amp and dac inside the cups or THX stuff... its time to move on :)
 
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Mar 15, 2020 at 10:04 AM Post #18,351 of 25,261
Sviatoslav,

I have 007MkI (with 009 modded earpads) and BHSE. I jumped into BHSE without auditioning after living for years with SRM-717. This was an epiphany, I needed about 2-3 months to understand and learn what this amp does and redigest my musical collection. It sounded involving even with a crappy source (youtube from mobile), not to mention advanced ones (I have a TT with 2 arms/carts plus a supertuner). The only thing I do now is investing in better tubes. I listen to exclusively classical (from baroque to 20th century).

Cheers

EDIT: Glass surfaces have a tendency to accentuate HF

Apologies if my post is ending up in the wrong thread. I am new to the forum and was advised to post here instead of over in the "Introductions, Help and Recommendations" forum. I would appreciate any help on consolidating the threads into one or to shut down one of them so all discussion is in one place, for all readers' benefit.

I'm looking for advice in choosing a setup for classical music listening. The headphones shall be electrostatics, but make and model are not decided upon yet, and neither is the amp. Budget is not a primary concern.

My priorities when choosing an audio component generally are

1) timbral rightness,
2) temporal accuracy and
3) portrayal of minuscle variations in loudness (microdynamics).

"If the midrange isn't right, nothing else matters". An uncoloured midrange is the first thing I listen for in an audio setup. The human voice is particularly revealing of any shortcomings in this area and since I'm listening to a fair amount of operatic recordings and song recitals, this is one of my main interests. Other than that, reproduction defects are easily heard with recordings of speech, and if a recording of a well-known voice doesn't sound right through a component, I will pass it by.

Real bass has heft, but it also has weight and texture, and real bass is airy and warm (think plucked double-bass or tuba in a real acoustic space rather than synthesised sound). While many components give an impression of heft, weight and texture are many times lacking, and airy and warm qualities to bass are all too rare, even with expensive components. Bass quantity I rarely find an issue even with mini-monitors with restricted low end, but bass quality is important: again, I prefer it uncoloured, well-defined and well-paced.

Timbral aberrations in the treble I find very objectionable and I would reject any setup that emphasises upper frequencies or were downright harsh, spitty, sibilllant (or the like). Generally, I find a slightly rolled-off treble response much more acceptable than a highlighted upper register. (In real space, treble response is naturally attenuated as sound waves travel through air, but I know of no natural ambiance that would accentuate higher frequencies.)

Temporal accuracy is a necessity not only for following a musical line (on a macro-level, as it were), but to appreciating the interplay between a soloist and his orchestra, between the musicians of a quartet or any other formation, between a singer and an accompanist. Even in a solo performance, the correct representation of the temporal relationships is critical to my musical enjoyment: between the different voices in a piano piece, between playing 'a tempo' and ever so slightly off, and so forth. Temporal accuracy, then, is concerned not with 'drive' or 'slam' but with the organisation of the musical development in time, with the relationship between the musical flow and an (imagined) external metre on the one hand and, even more, with the relationships of musical elements inter se, the tiny variations that turn musical performance into interpretation. I have found many audio components, even very costly ones, surprisingly lacking in this domain. 'Drive' in itself is not sufficient but inevitably results from a system that is temporally accurate.

Timbral rightness and temporal accuracy, when occuring together, make possible what I perceive as a cohesive musical rendition, for lack of a better word.

Minuscle loudness variations are vastly more important to me than are major jumps: the difference in the sound from a piano hammer's attack on the stinrg depending on the pianist's touch, the bowing of a violinist, the decay of a triangle stroke are all dependent on microdynamic portrayal and they constitute the very personality of an instrument, of a voice, of an interpretation. Large loudness swings are important, I cannot deny as a Wagner enthusiast, but far less so than microdynamics.

I'm a conservatory-trained classical pianist myself and I've had more than 20 years expossure to high-end audio at home, though always loudspeaker-centric. In system-building I prefer a warmer over a cooler sound (in digtial front-ends, think dCS rather than Ayre), finesse over heft (in amplification, think high-powered class A and never class D or G), a lively and breathing rendition over 'slam' (in loudspeakers, think electrostatics rathter than Wilson). This is not to say that sound volume and scale aren't important, they are (no single-ended class A triode amplifiers here). A system's ability to convey the weight of a grand piano sound is vital, its ability to suggest the power of an orchestra in full cry is crucial, but sound quality always takes precedence over sheer quantity.

My headphone listening experience, until now, has been very limited. I have owned only a gifted pair of Beyerdynamic DT-990 and a pair of Sennheiser HD600 for many years and they have seen little use. The Beyerdynamic DT-990 I positively dislike (bright, verging on harsh and spitty and in my face and I would never have bought it myself) but the Sennheiser HD600 is satisfying and a bargain at the price, too (I chose the HD600 over the HD650 and the HD660). Only during the past year have I started listening to higher-quality headphones as I have bought a pair of Audeze LCD-X, mainly for listening in hotel rooms when traveling, driven by a Chord Mojo / Poly combination (I chose the Chord Mojo over the Chord Hugo2 that, to my ears, is voiced on the bright side of reality and I find it much easier to live with the recessed treble of the Mojo).

I have read through the threads that the site search returns as hits for my enquiry, but major questions remain and I hope someone will be kind enough to direct me toward the right components for building a system to my liking. I do have the opportunity to audition Stax earspeakers where I live, but only with Stax amps. I have heard the Stax L-300, L-500 and L-700 at shows along with the SR-007 mk II and the SR--009, only the SR-009S I haven't heard at all. All my listening has been with the SRM-727 II and the SRM-007t II energisers (all phones via both amps). I'm inclined to settle for a Stax pro bias setup for flexibility and I might consider the Mr. Speakers Voce as an alternative. As for amplification, I'm open to any well-reputed brand and model.

My general impressions from my show listening sessions with the Stax headphones and amps are:

- that there was, genreally, surprisingly little to differentiate between the SR-009 and the SR-007 mk II given the price differential with the SR-L700 tight on their heels; I assume this is due to inadequate amplification
- that I came away impressed by the SR-009 but fearing that its treble response combined with the amount of detail conveyed could prove just too much for me in the long run
- that the SR-007 mk II has the most relaxed and listenable presentation of them all but seems sluggish and lacking in pace when driven by the SRM-007t II
- that I generally prefer the SRM-007t II over the SRM-727 II for its midrange and better rendition of microdetail as opposed to macro-swings (with its stated limitation when driving the SR-007 mk II, cf. above)
- that the SRM-727 II introduces (or exaggerates?) grain and sibillance the SR-009 treble.

I am left with the impression that the higher-level Stax earspeakers were not driven appropriately by the amplification on hand and, hence, I don't find myself comfortable judging them.

The obvious thing to do now would be to audition the headphones in question, the top three Stax offerings (SR-007 mk II, SR-009 and SR-009S) and theMr. Speakers Voce as driven by high-quality amplification but, as per above, I don't have access to auditioning other amps than Stax locally. My idea, then, was to decide on and to buy an amplifier as a starting point and work the headphones choice from there (as I do have the possibility of auditioning the complete Stax line-up of headphones locally).

I've been thinking about the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE and the Mjölnir KGSSHV (Carbon?) and I was wondering what would be the best 'entry point' when I cannot audition before purchasing.

Any advice on amps, headphones and combinations given my above preferences would be very much appreciated.
 
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Mar 15, 2020 at 12:54 PM Post #18,352 of 25,261
On the subject of leaving the summit fi: These are all very individual decisions. In the last 1.5 years I've been living in another city that my system is, had no chance to move it so far, and I get to listen to it only a few days per month. Yet, it gives me such an unbelievable pleasure that instead of selling it, I've been actually investing quite a lot in it. The latest being Sansui TU-X1 supertuner and Decca London Reference cartridge. Both with my 007mkI/BHSE combo create absolutely magical listening machine. I keep buying LP's like crazy recently too. The plan is though to move it to my current location no matter what (with the racking it's about 800kg weight!)

Cheers
 
Mar 15, 2020 at 2:06 PM Post #18,353 of 25,261
Please forgive the copy and paste post, but I have limited time to decide.. post from other stax thread:

Could use a few opinions from people that have heard both.. reading this thread it's really hard to get an idea of the differences between the 009 and 009s.. read one post that said the vocals are thinner on the 009s and another that said vice versa. I've been in this hobby a long time, so I do get it. lol.. it's normal and going to happen.

You can see my sig below, but I have the BHSE and* Woo Audio WES (which btw, they are both top of the line, just different.. I now don't know if I can give up either lol). I have the HE60, MK1 is coming tuesday, and I have the chance to purchase either the 009 or 009s in the next 24hrs. I really don't want to have to buy both to decide, as I may end up in the same situation as with the WES/BHawaii lol.

For people that have heard both, which have you preferred and with what music? Thanks in advance!
 
Mar 15, 2020 at 9:00 PM Post #18,354 of 25,261
This is what these people want. A Chinese versions of all of the above. I rather have original Staxs or a real KG amp. But hey people want this Chinese stuff.

So here it is;

KGSSHV mini clone -- $800

(photo snipped)

Grounded Grid (KGPT) STAX Electrostatic Ear Amplifier - $2880

(photo snipped)

Mega STAX 009 electrostatic ear amplifier - $3800

(photo snipped)

KG STAX T2 patch SR-009 electrostatic ear amplifier - $7000

(photo snipped)

I don't think people are really WANTING these amps from crypto-anonymous sources.

What they WANT is to be able to buy amps-for-Stax that don't constrain the listening experience that the Stax earspeakers can deliver. In the absence of "name brand" solutions, some shoppers are willing to take a gamble on a no-name product offering they see, but most will not.

That said, it's an open question on how large the demand really is for top-quality amps for Stax, whether sold under the Stax name or by others.
 
Mar 15, 2020 at 9:51 PM Post #18,355 of 25,261
Its not crypto sources lol.
https://www.myheadfi.com/?s=stax&post_type=product

Stax gear was always was not for the average listener. It was for people with deep pockets.

Now their amps are and were excellent. They had about 5 great to fantastic amps, T1, T1S, T1W, 717 and T2. Decent price to extremely expensive that bankrupt the company. And all 3rd party amps strive to become a clone of the infamous T2.

Back to constraining the listener? It's kind of hard for a $500 amp or 1K amp to not be constraining sadly. Unless you buy a use T1 and mod it. It's also not the amp I believe, I blame the headphones themselves. They need to make efficient headphones. Easy to drive 007 with a $500 amp will be ground breaking.

Over time, this will happen. But not now.


@number1sixerfan

009 and 009S is like HD800 and HD800S

You can say one is more refine. But loses the technicality of the former. Its debated.
The 009S is slightly refine and warmer to me, than the orginal. Go with the 009S with a grain of salt.
 
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Mar 18, 2020 at 5:05 AM Post #18,356 of 25,261
Anyone got the KGHSSV non carbon and using it with 009 or 007?
I find it a bad pairing with the 007. Sound is incoherent, small sound stage.
 
Mar 18, 2020 at 10:35 AM Post #18,358 of 25,261
Anyone got the KGHSSV non carbon and using it with 009 or 007?
I find it a bad pairing with the 007. Sound is incoherent, small sound stage.

That is odd to hear given that the KGSSHV was the gold standard of electrostatic amplifiers prior to the carbon (other than the t2 and the bhse), and universally recommended to be paired with the 007.
 

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