[Pahani]

I want to enter e-stats world, I didn't listened to high-end headphones or e-stats, I want the endgame for at least 5 years. I don't want to spend $3000 and get just a better HD800, I want something that I won't regret buying. I don't want to listen to high-end headphones (I bet they are mostly the same, with slight different tonality and timbre, that's why I want to jump on e-stats, same reason I tried OLED vs LED, FPGA vs ASIC, NVME vs SATA3 etc my assumption is if I want better, I need to change the technology).

I'm mostly interested in RAW resolution and musicality. Have a Chord Hugo 2 as a DAC. I want to hear everything in a mix within this budget.

I really want to choose between L500/L700 + 323S/353X so if someone know which is the best combination, I will jump on it next week.

Some say L700 is inferior to L300, some say 353X is inferior to 323S, such things don't make sense for me (maybe the membrane needs to be charged like Z said?! so it needs 2-3 days to sound at best?!).

Even if I go to listen to them, I won't know how to search for differences. Maybe 1 headphone may impress me at first, because that's the point of first listen just for them to get your money.

I'd be very grateful.

I haven't heard all 3 of the current Lambda models.........I personally just went right for the top model, and luckily, I think I made the correct choice

While I haven't heard all 3 "L" series, Zeos has. That was my personal L700 pair in his review, as well as my SRM-1 Mk2 amp.

As far as amps go, I'm fortunate to own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2, and 353X at the same time. I think my SRM-1 needs to be recapped, and may sound a touch bass light because of that. Bearing that in mind, my ears rank my amps roughly in line with their cost. Considering that, my advice would be to spend pretty much as much as your budget allows there; especially if you think it will be your Endgame setup.

I am far from the most experienced person here though, I'm sure others will chime in.

*edit* Oh yeah, I only referenced the Zeos video because you were already familiar with it.

 

[oneguy]

I have heard the L700, L500, L300 and 507. My preference is as follows:
1. L700
2. 507
3. L300
4. L500

All of those were through the 007ta and all except the 507 were through the T8000. I don’t care much for the 727II or else I would have listened to them through the 727II.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Some say L700 is inferior to L300, some say 353X is inferior to 323S, such things don't make sense for me (maybe the membrane needs to be charged like Z said?! so it needs 2-3 days to sound at best?!).

There will always be personal preference to sound signatures especially around similar headphones. As to what Z says.. I assume you mean the YouTube guy. Setting aside his subjective opinions, may of the things he says regarding technical aspects of headphones and amps make no sense and are just flat wrong. He clearly has little to no technical understanding and no drive to do any research into what he is talking about and presenting as fact.

You may also want to look into the 407 and 507 as deals on those are have popped up.

In the world of headphones newer is often better, but not always and certainly not for everyone.

 

[GraveNoX]

L700 then, but I need to wait one more month for 353X or 252S is just enough ?
L700 is 1400 EUR, 353X at 1140, 323S at 990 and 252S at 490 in my country. I don't trust getting used headphones. Nobody is selling used STAX products in Romania, I still wonder if STAX is just hype or not.

 

[powertoold]

I love my L700. It's difficult for me to think of ways they could be better.

For a while, I thought it needed more bass impact, but in reality, they're made for long listening sessions, and too much bass becomes tiresome.

They're extremely comfortable, look a bit weird, and if you need noise isolation, they're horrible.

I think they're worth every penny. High end audio may only be "10-15%" better than cheap audio, but if you enjoy focused listening sessions, they're worth it. Your preferences may vary. It's difficult to say anything is overhyped or not without context.

 

[Petyot]

L700 then, but I need to wait one more month for 353X or 252S is just enough ?
L700 is 1400 EUR, 353X at 1140, 323S at 990 and 252S at 490 in my country. I don't trust getting used headphones. Nobody is selling used STAX products in Romania, I still wonder if STAX is just hype or not.

L700 are easy to drive! SRM-252s is more than enough.

I have a SRM-006t and a SRM-252s. Not much difference (if any...) between the two.

 

[catscratch]

L700 is fairly easy to drive but does respond to amping. The difference between the 313 and 717 amps is not subtle. The 717 is significantly more dynamic, open, and effortless sounding. However the 313 doesn't sound bad, I like its tonality more than the 717, even if the soundstage is more closed in and dynamics lack in comparison. Having said that, looking at the specs, I'd probably pick the 353x out of the current crop of Stax amps.

L700's biggest sonic flaw is the bass. It's a bit loose, and just not as resolved as the mids and highs. It also starts to roll off at around 60hz. However I notice that the pads don't really seal on my head. Granted, there is speculation that the headphones are designed to be intentionally lossy, so maybe they should never seal. Either way, I've seen real inconsistencies between L700 measurements, at least in the bass. The mids and highs are very close to spot on though, and there is a real sense of "rightness" to the sound. It's a bit like an electrostatic HD650, maybe a bit brighter, but with similar problems and similar virtues. Considering I love the HD650, that's no bad thing.

Incidentally, considering the state of a lot of high-end headphones, getting "a better HD580" is preferable to many other high-end headphones.

Z reviews should be taken only as entertainment value. He does have a good deal of enthusiasm and that makes his ramblings fun to watch now and then. Not exactly a trustworthy source of factual info however.

 

[powertoold]

L700's biggest sonic flaw is the bass. It's a bit loose, and just not as resolved as the mids and highs. It also starts to roll off at around 60hz. However I notice that the pads don't really seal on my head.

I agree with this. There's no way Stax would have made the L700 perfect. If you want the best Stax has to offer, you have to pony up $3500 for the 009s.

 

[tigon_ridge]

...

 

[powertoold]

I have a hypothesis about that. I think the stronger bass in STAX's flagship models may have more to do with their housing and padding than the drivers themselves. My hypothesis is that the 007 and 009 transfer subbass frequencies into the listener's skull more efficiently, conveying a stronger feel of subbass presence. I think it has to do with the combination of pad design; how the pad is attached to the driver; the amount of weight contained within each speaker (headband not included); and perhaps clamping force of the headband. If my theory is correct, it may be possible to modify all LX00 and X07 units to have similar bass performance to the flagships.

I disagree because my LNS's lower frequencies are more pronounced and have more impact than my L700s. I enjoy the L700s more because there's less harshness in the high mids, and also the L700s mids are more meaty compared to my LNS.

Also, I disagree with catscratch about the L700s loose bass. I think it's tight enough, but the bass drops off very quickly below 60-80hz as he said.

 

[tigon_ridge]

...

 

[powertoold]

I didn't mention the LNS, but it seems you're implying they're similar in terms of all the design aspects I mentioned. I strongly doubt that is so, but please tell me if I'm wrong. Their pads must be significantly different, and certainty STAX's attachment mechanism has changed since the X07 generation.

My LNS has half the clamping force, similar leather earpads, and weighs a tad less than the L700. The L700s new housing is much more rigid compared to the older Lambda design, since the drivers are screwed rather than glued onto the housing. I don't think the bass extension or impact has much to do with the housing.

My LNS can also use the newer headband, which goes to show how similar they are in design.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Running some subbass through my headphones, I feel less shake when I add clamping force. I think it's a mechanical dampening effect. I find it weird that Zeo's 207 have such a nice, powerful bass response (granted, it's probably not subbass), even though its response curve shows a steep roll off. Trying to wrap my brain around all of this is quite the task.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Running some subbass through my headphones, I feel less shake when I add clamping force.

This can go either way, depending on the headphone.

I find it weird that Zeo's 207 have such a nice, powerful bass response (granted, it's probably not subbass), even though its response curve shows a steep roll off.

I have not seen measurements for his, but Tyll Hertsens of InnerFidelity measured @miceblue's with the stock pads and SR-507 pads. Take a look.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR207SB2217.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR207EP507LeatherPadsSerNumSB22217.pdf
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9965485.png
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9965484.png

The second set of measurements superimpose compensation curves over the raw grey measurements to illustrate how closely the headphone follows them. The green line is the diffuse field curve, which is my neutral reference for headphones for a number of reasons. Most high-end headphones follow it, and nearly all planar magnetics (which are regarded as having the most linear bass) follow it very closely in the bass. The black line is the Harman curve, which is an average of the tonal balance a test group of people preferred. Ignore that one. Just pay attention to the grey and green.

As you can see, there's supposed to be a roll-off in the raw measurements for the headphone to be neutral. It's not like speakers that literally measure as a straight line when they're neutral. With headphones, you have to compensate for human hearing and the drivers being so close to your ears.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements-explained

The only roll-off the SR-207 has is below 20 Hz, which is not exactly relevant for music. There's actually a bass hump between 20 and 100 Hz that is tamed for the most part with the SR-507 pads. The SR-207 already has full bass extension. If you want more bass, you can always boost it with EQ. (I know you're a big fan of EQ like I am.) Just bear in mind that the cheaper amps have limited voltage and will distort at a certain point. (Bass boosts require more voltage than normal.)

All three Lambdas I owned (SR-L300, SR-207, SR-Lambda) are among the most neutral headphones I have heard, but I'd say the SR-207 is the most neutral overall.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Agh! I was going off of memory, and for some reason I got the 207's curve conflated with the L300's curve. Sorry. The 207 does seem to have some seriously nice bass, though.