The problem is the source?

[CrazyRay]

Hello,
I have been hearing a lot about harshness, brightness and too much bass in many of the headphone reviews.
I was wondering how much of this is related to the source?
I have been listening mainly to vinyl and tape since I bought my AKG K701's, and all I can say is that it sounds absolutely wonderful!
The sound is warm and punchy with beautiful highs.
I notice that the sources being used are all digital.
I think that this is were the problem lies?
I seems that everyone is trying to get better amps, headphones etc. and not addressing the initial problem, the digital source.
Just a thought.
I hope I am not starting something here?

 

[VeipaCray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyRay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, I have been hearing a lot about harshness, brightness and too much bass in many of the headphone reviews. I was wondering how much of this is related to the source? I have been listening mainly to vinyl and tape since I bought my AKG K701's, and all I can say is that it sounds absolutely wonderful! The sound is warm and punchy with beautiful highs. I notice that the sources being used are all digital. I think that this is were the problem lies? I seems that everyone is trying to get better amps, headphones etc. and not addressing the initial problem, the digital source. Just a thought. I hope I am not starting something here?

A digital source isn't necessarily bad if its lossless or a cd. A good DAC on a quality digital file will sound great. This is really the garbage in garbage out topic again. A poor quality recording, a lousy DAC, a good quality recording that's been compressed to a 96K MP3 or something will sound terrible. The other issue is that sometimes EQ is turned on or is encoded into the digital file.... IE ripping an MP3 with EQ enabled on the encoder.
If it's done properly digital sources can sound great also.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyRay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, I have been hearing a lot about harshness, brightness and too much bass in many of the headphone reviews. I was wondering how much of this is related to the source? I have been listening mainly to vinyl and tape since I bought my AKG K701's, and all I can say is that it sounds absolutely wonderful! The sound is warm and punchy with beautiful highs. I notice that the sources being used are all digital. I think that this is were the problem lies? I seems that everyone is trying to get better amps, headphones etc. and not addressing the initial problem, the digital source. Just a thought. I hope I am not starting something here?

What kind of music are you listening to? What labels?

Yeah, digital can be strident...especially with crappy recordings but I've also heard box-store purchased DVD players that are quite musical if the CD recording is done right AND the system as a whole has good synergy.
This is based on listening through speakers and I would imagine a headphone rig would be more critical to any stridency in the source component.

My father has such a system and I'd like to do dbt with a entry level analog system and see what the results would be. (of course I'd have to rig up a device to inject surface noise into the digital stream to make it more subjective

)

 

[CrazyRay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif What kind of music are you listening to? What labels? My father has such a system and I'd like to do dbt with a entry level analog system and see what the results would be. (of course I'd have to rig up a device to inject surface noise into the digital stream to make it more subjective )

Surface noise?
If you keep your vinyl clean and use a good vinyl cleaning device (VPI 16.5) you should have no noise at all.
96% of all my vinyl has absolute no noise whatsoever.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyRay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Surface noise? If you keep your vinyl clean and use a good vinyl cleaning device (VPI 16.5) you should have no noise at all. 96% of all my vinyl has absolute no noise whatsoever.

...not even a pleasantly faint warm drone before the music starts?

 

[CrazyRay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...not even a pleasantly faint warm drone before the music starts?

pleasantly faint warm drone arggggggggghhh!

 

[finbad]

My point of view and upgrade history in the digital source world concludes:

Yes, there are a great many so called commercial mass marketed CDs which I can only surmise were not at all intended to be played on mass marketed CDPs "IN CONJUNCTION with high resolution headphones appropriately driven by high resolution amplifiers"! Been there, so I added a NOS MHDT Labs outboard DAC and it did wonders for the presentation in that rig at the time with K-701s; However, still there was a problem with many recordings which the high resolution headphones was revealing, as they should, because with great recordings the system then, was wonderful...
Yet there was more yet to be extracted from those CDs of average recording value in my collection, as I found out with this CDP in my signature. More smoothness yet with higher resolution, affording better clarity and details, more refined bass tones, attack and impact throughout the spectrums, as well as added soundstaging both width and hight...

Yet there was still more yet to be added in terms of quantity of degrees of those same newfound qualitys, to the systems presentation when I added/interjected, the tube preamp to the signal chain. To say I would highly recommend a tube preamp would be an understatement, as it is essential to the beatific presentation I'm now experiencing. And this too as a side effect, removed for me any last bit of digital glare to my systems presentation with those same CDs as source material.

All predicated upon the potential capabilitys of the same K-701s and their amplifiers potential, revealing these better signals being fed them through the assembled component chain; Rather than previously the high resolution k-701 and its slightly warm & smooth amplifier revealing the garbage previously sent.

Also, I would add I do like the form factor and availability of CDs and the storage options of digital(SB3 user), so LPs was never an interesting option and i'm wholeheartledly rewarded with each listen, for having persevered...

I can in all honesty say, there is relatively NO digital glare to be heard with my system, yet this is not in comparison to LPs though, but I'm not motivated in the least by any chase to fully try to mimic that because the presentation I was in persuit of, has been realized with CDs as my systems source material.

Point being, in answer to the OPs question; Yes its of course related to the source and the signal fed high resolution headphones, albeit too, a great many CDs were made not at all for high resolution systems, that's why the contemporary mass market media put on CDs is mastered and mixed for their mass market audience who isn't using high resolution gear and compression is fine for boom boxes etc...

But as a medium, CD source material certainly can be mixed/mastered without digital glare or other nasties, as is evident on Mapleshade Recordings, for instance...

 

[vcoheda]

CD is probably not as good as vinyl, but music through digital components can sound very good. i have heard some systems w/ CD players as their source that sounded just flat out amazing.

i have a lot invested in the CD medium and plan to stick with it for the long haul.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyRay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, I have been hearing a lot about harshness, brightness and too much bass in many of the headphone reviews. I was wondering how much of this is related to the source?

Those are all frequency imbalance issues. Your headphones need to be calibrated to provide a flat response to avoid those problems. If you're one of those people who crank the bass and treble, you will experience bad sound no matter what source you use.

See ya
Steve

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Those are all frequency imbalance issues. Your headphones need to be calibrated to provide a flat response to avoid those problems. If you're one of those people who crank the bass and treble, you will experience bad sound no matter what source you use. See ya Steve

As I see it the original question was the correct one...
"Is the source the problem"

Recording quality is the first link in the chain IMO and therefore the first "source" to scrutinize

 

[jonnywolfet]

all i can add to this discussion is that upgrading my source was a MASSIVE revelation, plugging in my previous (rubbish) CDP's ipod or ibook just sound flat, dark, rolled off, muddy and dull, compared to the lp12 or PS1.

Source matters!! Garbage in = garbage out!!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Those are all frequency imbalance issues. Your headphones need to be calibrated to provide a flat response to avoid those problems.

In the world of analogue sources the pre-amp is the most important factor here but with digital, many people are using passive pre-amps if at all which means if your source doesn't match the character of the amp and headphones you use you can only rectify this with some form of filtering in the signal path, be it cables, graphic eq or valves.
Whether you characterise this as balancing the signal or adding colouration it amounts to the same thing... putting another bit of kit in the signal path. In my opinion this is why tubes / valves have had such a resurgence in popularity, to cover up the sound of mismatched digital sources.

 

[sunseeker888]

I agree that pre-amp has the most influence on the sound unless you are using passive pre's in which point the source is most influential.

Digital can (and is supposed to) sound exactly like the original master tape/master file....problem is which format, and how much has the engineer screwed with it at his DAW....

In a perfect world, SACD would be the end-all source solution, but A) The masses aren't unto high end audio like they once were, and B) There are a LOT of crappy SACD decks being sold today...