Sep 2, 2024 at 12:25 PM Post #15,061 of 15,750
They sound cleaner more detailed and images even better using the OSG cable connected to them.
Now if there was more bass…

As it turned out, OSG did exactly what I wanted - which was to bring on the Conductor’s bass.

With the stock cable, I wasn’t getting enough bass to make the timbre of instruments like the double bass quite enjoyable for jazz and the like. The OSG fills out the midbass to give bass instruments and even lower register piano the fundamentals they need.

Treble also gets an improvement - it's sweeter, smoother and better extended. Less spiky in the upper mids/lower treble.

And yes, OSG is good for showing off the Conductor's soundstage and imaging chops.

Digging it here with the RS6.

IMG_0454.jpeg


The MMCX sockets are tight. They don’t swivel freely. Connectors snap on securely and take some effort to remove.

Anyway I put these adaptors on the Conductor. They're a bit spendy but feel solid and well made and (most importantly) don't seem to colour the sound as far as I can tell. So this Conductor will remain 2-pin for the foreseeable future while I try out other pairings. I know, I prefer to wear my buds cable down and this forces me to wear them over ear like IEMs but I use IEMs anyway, don’t I? So I can just get used to them.

Anyway - let me say that you don't necessarily need the OSG to optimise the Conductor (besides, it costs more than the Conductor - I originally bought it for my Volt, but it seems a bit much if you’re planning to use it just for the Conductor). But for those of you who like your tunings with more meat on the midbass, the stock cable can be a bit economical in that area, and a number of other cables do better without much effort.

My other favourites so far are both by NiceHCK - Dragonscale 2 and PtGr, with Dragonscale having slightly nicer lower mids and PtGr having the advantage in imaging and layering. Both very resolving. But those aren't cheap either, so I also gave it a whirl on some relatively less expensive pairings:

OCC849
It too produced a more timbrally natural sound than the stock cable. The upper mids and lower treble tend to be relatively less controlled than the other cable pairings I tried, but it may also come down to source synergy and music library/preferences.

Moonlight stock cable
I sold the Moonlight ages ago but bought this separately as a spare stock cable, which I kept. It was touted as a baby OSG at the time and seems to live up to its billing. Its timbral improvements to Conductor are very similar to that of the OSG, though I hear less treble extension and the OSG has better imaging and detail.

For some unfathomable reason I got this with a 3.5mm single-ended plug, so it's entirely possible that a balanced termination might push it closer to the OSG.

Its 2-pin connectors also sit flush with the socket, which some folks may prefer - I gotta say they don’t look too shabby here.

IMG_0476.jpeg
 
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Sep 2, 2024 at 12:50 PM Post #15,062 of 15,750
I'm eagerly waiting for the first impressions of RIVAL. I might buy it but probably will need to sell my other Penon IEMs.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 1:37 PM Post #15,063 of 15,750
I'm eagerly waiting for the first impressions of RIVAL. I might buy it but probably will need to sell my other Penon IEMs.
I've been listening and fiddling with it throughout the long weekend and seriously enjoying a very serious iem. The ability to shift its sound is beyond any other iem in the hobby but even if you didn't change anything, it is what it's advertised to be. Not a giant killer because it is a giant itself, in performance and price. It's a risky gambit for a brand that's associated with value, but they delivered on what they promised.

Ultimately, like with the Fir Frontier series with changeable atom modules, as folks start to get Rival and start finding their sweet spot with the dampers and bass dial, we'll start to hear how all the combos sound.

It's not uncomplicated, that's for sure. But it can be tuned to personal satisfaction without all the guesswork of cables, tips, etc.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 1:42 PM Post #15,064 of 15,750
I've been listening and fiddling with it throughout the long weekend and seriously enjoying a very serious iem. The ability to shift its sound is beyond any other iem in the hobby but even if you didn't change anything, it is what it's advertised to be. Not a giant killer because it is a giant itself, in performance and price. It's a risky gambit for a brand that's associated with value, but they delivered on what they promised.

Ultimately, like with the Fir Frontier series with changeable atom modules, as folks start to get Rival and start finding their sweet spot with the dampers and bass dial, we'll start to hear how all the combos sound.

It's not uncomplicated, that's for sure. But it can be tuned to personal satisfaction without all the guesswork of cables, tips, etc.
Thanks. How is the sound signature? I know the mids usually are great with Penon but I'm very curious about the bass and treble.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 4:52 PM Post #15,065 of 15,750
Thanks. How is the sound signature? I know the mids usually are great with Penon but I'm very curious about the bass and treble.
Reason why impressions of the Rival is a bit slower going. These need some serious burn in times not necessarily due to the mids and trebles but due to the bass dynamics it has. I am not certain what Bass dynamics Penon is using for bass but the bass end of these things are very similar to how sub woofers work on a 5.1 or 7.1 system. You have a dial which can crank the rumble as much as you can handle. I have been going back n forth with @emdeevee on our findings and how burn in has slowly but surely brought the Rival into a true flagship level IEM.

If you guys own the Voltage if you can imagine that sound but more expansive, greater height depth and width of sound with the ability to tune the upper mids and trebles with as much bass as your heart desires that is essentially the Rival but it is more than the sums of its parts. How the Sonion BC drivers project sound is astounding on the Rival.

Trebles are variable and initially I went with a grey damper which opens up the treble one more increment over stock white damper that was installed from the factory. I ended up changing out the brown mids filter to bring up just a touch more upper mids which also has an effect on the trebles. So I changed back to the stock white damper for trebles. And the other thing I was doing while all this was going on was using my best drum n bass tracks to work out the bass end.

I now feel the Rival I have in my ears are firing off in all cylinders. These things are a marvel. Even more dimensional and involving than the Impacts. The bass end is much more adaptable and variable than you would imagine. If your worried about quality. Like I mentioned before these are the closest, I have ever heard in an IEM form, real subs miniaturized for your ears. Anything with sub bass rumble and your ears will get a warm bass massage. Its speed and precision is excellent for as much woofer bass as you want to hear. Though I think I found a great balance in how I want the Rivals bass level vs the rest of the sound. If you guys can imagine a clock dial with 12 oclock on the dial being Max bass.
DSC02066.JPG
This level is believe it or not is official basshead level here and it is set to 10 or 4.
12 drivers, 5-way crossover, 6 channels (including 2 bone conduction channels)
2DD+2BC+4BA+4EST
Low frequency: 2 x 8mm coaxial dynamic
Mid-frequency: 2 x Knowles
High frequency: 2 x Sonion
Ultra-high frequency: 4 x Sonion EST
Full frequency: through 2 Sonion bone conduction
Impedance: 11 ohm
Sensitivity : 102dB
Frequency range : 5-80kHz


I currently have it on 11 or 5 on the dial and it is at least a good 10dbs of bass. Folks that wanted a bit more bass emphasis from the Voltage. I can say the Rival has the most amount of bass for any Penon IEM to date but that is if you want it that way. It can go to neutral levels if you like. Initially I found the bass end a bit dark and lacked a bit of articulation. Just a gut feeling I got but I am thinking these are silicone bass like what's on the EST50 which also needed a lot of burn in for the bass end to shape up. I have give or take a good 150 hours on the woofers and they sound much improved and are now flagship worthy imo. The bass end here is highly defined and its sub bass rumble is just outstanding. It will loosen your earwax in the ears let me put it that way.

As per trebles. These also have greater treble presence from the Voltage configuration if you wish. Every damper you change out will have an effect on the overall sound presentation. You can make these warm and smooth to clear and brighter for trebles. For me anyways the stock damper is at a good treble level. It is perhaps one of the best EST infused trebles I have heard. Highly detailed, fantastic extension. Airy shimmery in all the right places. Ghostly detail due to the added BC driver effect. Once again that variability via damper changes comes into play and it turned out to be the one Penon installed that was just right for my own preferences. Now I did change the mids damper to the next level up meaning it now goes from about 8dbs to roughly 10dbs. Vocals pop just a bit more due to it and images even better than the stock one.

Then there is the Totem factor. If dual Sonion BC drivers are not good enough. Hows about including a cable that enhances dimensional characteristics for an IEM that is already dimensional. I think you guys can imagine just how spacious and physical, tactile, dimensional ghostly detailed the sound can get.

These have the widest stage of any of the current Penon line up. Has the most body full dimensions to any of the current Penon line up. Has crazy levels of refinement at all parts of its sound and that is what a true flagship should be... I think Penon called them the Rival due to that idea that you can actually custom tune these things to match any of the TOTL level flagships in the market. Naming scheme is everything for a Penon IEM and now you all know why they call it Rival.
DSC02106.JPG
 
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Sep 2, 2024 at 5:24 PM Post #15,067 of 15,750
Ya they were dark murky sounding out of the box. No longer sound murky and has a very natural rich clean tonal character now that's my quantification.

Sound stage has opened up as well. Cleaner sounding better defined trebles , Mids sound more nuanced with distinct layering, imaging sound stupendous now.

Bass sounded a touch loose if I am to be honest. Its definition was questionable on open listen. Bass is much better controlled. Tighter punchier and now supremely defined. Which has opened up the mids.

If you don't believe in burn in. DONT BUY THE RIVAL. Simple as that.
 
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Sep 2, 2024 at 6:08 PM Post #15,068 of 15,750
DONT BUY THE RIVAL. Simple as that.
I'm gonna plaster this quote all over the internet and watch the world burn!
1000032966.gif




I kid, I kid.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 6:33 PM Post #15,069 of 15,750
If you don't believe in burn in. DONT BUY THE RIVAL. Simple as that.

From reading your posts, the only thing I believe is that I believe you have more experience with many different headphones than I do, so I'd be foolish to say my beliefs trump your experience. I'm coming from a place of trying to understand better.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 6:37 PM Post #15,070 of 15,750
Advice, please brothers.

I quite like the way the shell of the ISN H30 fits; it's like an ideal size and shape for my ears. What other IEMs in Penon's stable have a similar design? TIA
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM Post #15,071 of 15,750
Rival is a very complicated IEM. There are so many parts to it including a cable that is made of this stuff.
1725316566430.png

There are 12 total drivers including dual bone conduction drivers and dual coaxial dynamics with 5 crossovers at work on these. The bass dynamics are what will make the biggest leap in change over time but all of it needs a good work out.

I would be lying if I said they sound like they do now out of the box. You guys can ask @emdeevee , him and I have notes to back it up. We were going back n forth about how they sounded out of the box as well as the weeks worth of run in we have done on our sets of Rivals. His take is very much in line with my own.

The Rivals are far from optimized out of the box. But like all good things, once you do the work, they reveal themselves in a big way. It is a masterpiece no other way to put it.

For guys that are interested. Just know they do require some TLC in the form of burning them in like no other IEM I have ever had and that includes well over 300 pairs.

But the end sound is soo worth it.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 7:31 PM Post #15,072 of 15,750
As it turned out, OSG did exactly what I wanted - which was to bring on the Conductor’s bass.

With the stock cable, I wasn’t getting enough bass to make the timbre of instruments like the double bass quite enjoyable for jazz and the like. The OSG fills out the midbass to give bass instruments and even lower register piano the fundamentals they need.

Treble also gets an improvement - it's sweeter, smoother and better extended. Less spiky in the upper mids/lower treble.

And yes, OSG is good for showing off the Conductor's soundstage and imaging chops.

Digging it here with the RS6.

IMG_0454.jpeg

The MMCX sockets are tight. They don’t swivel freely. Connectors snap on securely and take some effort to remove.

Anyway I put these adaptors on the Conductor. They're a bit spendy but feel solid and well made and (most importantly) don't seem to colour the sound as far as I can tell. So this Conductor will remain 2-pin for the foreseeable future while I try out other pairings. I know, I prefer to wear my buds cable down and this forces me to wear them over ear like IEMs but I use IEMs anyway, don’t I? So I can just get used to them.

Anyway - let me say that you don't necessarily need the OSG to optimise the Conductor (besides, it costs more than the Conductor - I originally bought it for my Volt, but it seems a bit much if you’re planning to use it just for the Conductor). But for those of you who like your tunings with more meat on the midbass, the stock cable can be a bit economical in that area, and a number of other cables do better without much effort.

My other favourites so far are both by NiceHCK - Dragonscale 2 and PtGr, with Dragonscale having slightly nicer lower mids and PtGr having the advantage in imaging and layering. Both very resolving. But those aren't cheap either, so I also gave it a whirl on some relatively less expensive pairings:

OCC849
It too produced a more timbrally natural sound than the stock cable. The upper mids and lower treble tend to be relatively less controlled than the other cable pairings I tried, but it may also come down to source synergy and music library/preferences.

Moonlight stock cable
I sold the Moonlight ages ago but bought this separately as a spare stock cable, which I kept. It was touted as a baby OSG at the time and seems to live up to its billing. Its timbral improvements to Conductor are very similar to that of the OSG, though I hear less treble extension and the OSG has better imaging and detail.

For some unfathomable reason I got this with a 3.5mm single-ended plug, so it's entirely possible that a balanced termination might push it closer to the OSG.

Its 2-pin connectors also sit flush with the socket, which some folks may prefer - I gotta say they don’t look too shabby here.

IMG_0476.jpeg
Which 2 pin adapter is it?
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 7:48 PM Post #15,073 of 15,750
The Rivals are far from optimized out of the box. But like all good things, once you do the work, they reveal themselves in a big way. It is a masterpiece no other way to put it.
4 grands from a manufacturer famous for cable pairing, I would expect them to be 100% optimised and burned in out of the 🤔
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 9:23 PM Post #15,074 of 15,750
4 grands from a manufacturer famous for cable pairing, I would expect them to be 100% optimised and burned in out of the 🤔
Yes, but that's just not how it works, not with any iem that has so many drivers with bone conduction added to the mix. They all leave it to you to burn in, and 99% need it.

@Dsnuts and I are both pretty sold on the Rival. The ability to dial in the sound so precisely is only as good as the drivers and tuning can accommodate. Rival accommodates, and in every way. If you want basshead bass, you got it. You want the most extended treble possible without sibilance, you got it. You want the best iteration of Penon mids, definitely got it. You want out of the head sound from an iem, got that, too.

@Dsnuts was maybe too hard on the out of box tuning, which is straightforward and relatively safe. After full burn, the stock settings are fine and enjoyable. If you couldn't make any adjustments, it would still be a great Penon iem. But even with very minor adjustments, big things happen.

And ultimately, I interpret both of our opinions to be that you can "unsafe" that tuning to grand effect bringing Rival to different, lofty heights. I have only adjusted my set in the same way he has. But I think we're about to start experimenting more to see what else is possible. This really is a giant leap for Penon!
1000049656.jpg

Here it is with a Beat Audio Billow 8w cable made with gold and silver. It's a $3k cable I have on tour for demo. It's like supercharging the Totem cable, which isn't necessary, but sure is fun.
 
Sep 2, 2024 at 9:45 PM Post #15,075 of 15,750
4 grands from a manufacturer famous for cable pairing, I would expect them to be 100% optimised and burned in out of the 🤔
Well where the complications comes into play has to do with not just the bass and warmth out of the box but there is the added 7 dampers for mids and 7 sets for trebles.

I agree with @emdeevee in that it was a safe tuning out of the box. I started experimenting with the dampers while it was getting burn in at about 4 days or so into the burn in stage and one thing that I noticed that has changed was that I intentionally changed the treble damper for more treble presence and later on I changed it back to the stock damper. Initially I thought it needed a touch more trebles but something changed especially when I changed out the mids damper so I went back to the stock and it sounds perfect for how I like to hear the trebles at this point. And there in lies the complication of the Rival. Its not a one and done setting and here you go IEM, it can and does conform to how much you like your trebles upper mids and bass.

I noticed effective BC drivers in general has an effect where it throws out the mids information to be more ethereal and dimensional. This in turn causes the trebles to sound a bit behind the mids even though it is actually balanced with the mids. Something has changed in the sound to the point where it now sounds well balanced with the mids where before especially lower trebles sounded a bit relaxed to my ears. Don't know if that was due to burn in or my damper change for the mids. Or both.

This was the reason why I mentioned on my earlier impression of the Rival that they reminded me a bit of the old Volt in presentation which also has a bit relaxed lower trebles. It did share a similar rich full bodied warm presentation as the volts on open listen. I wasn't specific enough when I said the sound was murky, to be precise it was the bass end that sounded a bit murky due to it having a darker tonal character. Then by default it was set at the 10-4 position which is a lot of bass at what I guesstimate to be at around 12dbs or so of full-on woofer bass. Today I am posting about them because I think the bass end has finally taken shape. After the burn in the sound has shaped up to be what I imagined the sound to be. It is literally the best of Penon in all parts of its sound now and it took, 2 weeks? And we haven't even explored any of the other settings.
 

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