[Dsnuts]

Quote:

What, exactly, is tonality?
 
I know what a specific tone is, but that's a steady frequency. I have no idea how "tonality" fits into an actual bit of music.
 
Testing for bass volume, control, and impact is at least something I can understand, just not things like "tonality" or "musicality" that sound completely subjective and loosely defined.
 
(I can't wait to start comparing and contrasting two VERY different headphones tomorrow...maybe it'll help me understand this stuff.)

Just corrected the wording. Dynamic bass can handle various tones of the bass notes. That tune I like to test out my cans with.. For example the comparison I just did with my Cals. The Cals on that same tune sounds off and can't handle the tonality in the bass notes the same way the HTF600 can..I know there are better ways to test out how a can can handle certain notes but I just like to use tunes that have this dynamic tonal change to test out my cans with..So for a can to have truly good dynamics in the bass area they will handle tunes that I just posted up with authority clarity punch and tonality..  The bass tonality and command on the HTF600 are on a level that is more closer to a Denon D2000. vs the lower end Cals but cost 3X more the D2000 10X more than the HTF600s.  Just proving a point that. These are definitely worth more than what we pay for.

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

" tonality In music, the quality of an instrument's tone, often related to the key in which the music is written. In audio, mistakenly used in place of "tonal quality." "
 
Taken from http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
 
Not sure if that would help, but I hope so!

That helps a little.
 
I looked through a bit more and found this:
 
"musical, musicality A personal judgment as to the degree to which reproduced sound resembles live music. Real musical sound is both accurate and euphonic, consonant and dissonant."
 
That explains so much. Without any experience with live music in most genres, I don't have a reference to consult whenever I want to ask if something sounds like real music or not. The term started baffling me since the HTF600s are often touted for their "musicality", and for that matter, the Stax SR-Lambda normal bias I'm using now (thicker diaphragms notwithstanding) is also touted as sounding more "musical" compared to the numerous follow-up models (which, by comparison, are touted as having better extension both ways and being more analytical).
 
Even with all the jargon that people throw around on places like this, though, nothing beats being able to listen to a headphone with your own ears, using your own preferred source material, and being able to pass your own judgment based on that. Thankfully, the cost to entry for the HTF600s isn't very much at all, and I'll find out for myself tomorrow.

 

[Astrozombie]

Quote:

Seriously guys, anyone willing to lend me a pair?

If you pay for it

..........................after i get my HD-25.

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

 
That helps a little.
 
I looked through a bit more and found this:
 
"musical, musicality A personal judgment as to the degree to which reproduced sound resembles live music. Real musical sound is both accurate and euphonic, consonant and dissonant."
 
That explains so much. Without any experience with live music in most genres, I don't have a reference to consult whenever I want to ask if something sounds like real music or not. The term started baffling me since the HTF600s are often touted for their "musicality", and for that matter, the Stax SR-Lambda normal bias I'm using now (thicker diaphragms notwithstanding) is also touted as sounding more "musical" compared to the numerous follow-up models (which, by comparison, are touted as having better extension both ways and being more analytical).
 
Even with all the jargon that people throw around on places like this, though, nothing beats being able to listen to a headphone with your own ears, using your own preferred source material, and being able to pass your own judgment based on that. Thankfully, the cost to entry for the HTF600s isn't very much at all, and I'll find out for myself tomorrow.

You are correct..I think hearing these for yourself is the only way to appreciate them..I am thinking these will be different sounding that your Stax..Perhaps those will be more of the neutral flavor and quite a bit of detail to boot..I suppose a lot of what we consider as musicality may have to do with how much energy the tune sounds using the headphones. Certain tunes give off an energetic vibe that if you hear it on a neutral type can don't give off the intended energy that the tune was intended for..
 
Listening to those same tunes I posted for testing bass on my HD595s the bass impact is literally cut in half. The extension is not there either so for a person that listens to Hip hop and or anything bass heavy music wise the HD595 would sound anemic in the bass department..If I change back to my HTF600. These give out the full impact and tonality the artists intend.. So for a bass heavy tune the HTF600s are better in every regard than a neutral can... I also think the HTF600 are very nice for vocals and Jazz. If you listen to any Jazz you will appreciate what the HTF600 does..Heck listen to everything you have and I think you will find some tunes that will sound better on your stax and some that will be different and newer sounding on the HTF600s.   Give them the burn in and they will add nicely to your stable for something completely different than your current.
 
And in this hobby..Having a variety if one can afford them is the best way to truly enjoy various types of music.. These will take care of your proper bassy tunes.. Let us know. .I am very curious to hear your thoughts on them..
 

 

[Tharbamar]

I forgot to say few things, this HP do not need an amp to sounds good, I was playing it straight from iPhone 4 (No EQ) and MacBook Pro, really shines the music that I play with ( mostly Rock,Pop,Trance,HIp Hop, Heavy Rock & some Blues ) I also tried HTF600 with my portable amp iBasso D2 Boa and it does sound little more cleaner and more controlled,not by much but less dynamic sound stage to me overall with amp, It is sound great without amping anyway.
 
I love My D5000 but man this HTF600 can also let me enjoy every bit of my needs with HP. It's like having a little pretty mistress without everyone knowing
 
When I'm back home I will introduced it to my best friend with Sennheizer and Audio-Technica HP's and another friend who's not happy with his Beats Pros, want to hear what they gonna say and let them guess the price of this HP
 
BTW: I paid $72 with velour pads and overnight shipping from Amazon because I wanted to take it with me to my trip.
 
 
 
 

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

I forgot to say few things, this HP do not need an amp to sounds good, I was playing it straight from iPhone 4 (No EQ) and MacBook Pro, really shines the music that I play with ( mostly Rock,Pop,Trance,HIp Hop, Heavy Rock & some Blues ) I also tried HTF600 with my portable amp iBasso D2 Boa and it does sound little more cleaner and more controlled,not by much but less dynamic sound stage to me overall with amp, It is sound great without amping anyway.
 
I love My D5000 but man this HTF600 can also let me enjoy every bit of my needs with HP. It's like having a little pretty mistress without everyone knowing
 
When I'm back home I will introduced it to my best friend with Sennheizer and Audio-Technica HP's and another friend who's not happy with his Beats Pros, want to hear what they gonna say and let them guess the price of this HP
 
BTW: I paid $72 with velour pads and overnight shipping from Amazon because I wanted to take it with me to my trip.
 
 
 
 

Oh yea this is something I encourage everyone that has a HTF600 to do..Throw on your best tune and have them listen. .Make them drivers vibrate.. Get that look on their face like What?? And then have them take a guess how much they cost..I get a laugh every time I do this..People be shocked!

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

Just corrected the wording. Dynamic bass can handle various tones of the bass notes. That tune I like to test out my cans with.. For example the comparison I just did with my Cals. The Cals on that same tune sounds off and can't handle the tonality in the bass notes the same way the HTF600 can..I know there are better ways to test out how a can can handle certain notes but I just like to use tunes that have this dynamic tonal change to test out my cans with..So for a can to have truly good dynamics in the bass area they will handle tunes that I just posted up with authority clarity punch and tonality..  The bass tonality and command on the HTF600 are on a level that is more closer to a Denon D2000. vs the lower end Cals but cost 3X more the D2000 10X more than the HTF600s.  Just proving a point that. These are definitely worth more than what we pay for.

Oh, I think I know what you mean now! Ultrasone Pro 900 owners claim to suddenly be able to pick apart and analyze the bass notes because they're so clearly defined, instead of the whole bass spectrum just being a big, muddy thump. Is that the sort of thing you get with the HTF600s at a mere fraction of the price?
 
Quote:

You are correct..I think hearing these for yourself is the only way to appreciate them..I am thinking these will be different sounding that your Stax..Perhaps those will be more of the neutral flavor and quite a bit of detail to boot..I suppose a lot of what we consider as musicality may have to do with how much energy the tune sounds using the headphones. Certain tunes give off an energetic vibe that if you hear it on a neutral type can don't give off the intended energy that the tune was intended for..
 
Listening to those same tunes I posted for testing bass on my HD595s the bass impact is literally cut in half. The extension is not there either so for a person that listens to Hip hop and or anything bass heavy music wise the HD595 would sound anemic in the bass department..If I change back to my HTF600. These give out the full impact and tonality the artists intend.. So for a bass heavy tune the HTF600s are better in every regard than a neutral can... I also think the HTF600 are very nice for vocals and Jazz. If you listen to any Jazz you will appreciate what the HTF600 does..Heck listen to everything you have and I think you will find some tunes that will sound better on your stax and some that will be different and newer sounding on the HTF600s.   Give them the burn in and they will add nicely to your stable for something completely different than your current.
 
And in this hobby..Having a variety if one can afford them is the best way to truly enjoy various types of music.. These will take care of your proper bassy tunes.. Let us know. .I am very curious to hear your thoughts on them..

We seem to be thinking along the same lines. I see the two as being potential complements, not replacements, simply because they have different goals in mind-not just in the frequency response, but their very presentation. Besides, who says you only have to own just one headphone? I've seen people here with entire collections, 5 or even 10 headphones with associated amplifiers, swapping between them based on what they want to listen to at the moment!
 
What will likely happen is that when I want that ambient, airy, effortless presentation from some tracks, I'll reach for the Stax, and when I want my head rumbled for an involving, impactful presentation, I'll grab the HTF600s. It'll be an interesting contrast for sure, and both have their own place, not intruding on the other. (That's where I think the real difference will be-physical impact, the feeling of having air forced into one's ears. Great for that subwoofer effect when you're getting shellshocked by artillery in a round of Battlefield, but for more calm, serene, or ambient stuff, the Stax sound is a delight. Sometimes I almost forget I'm wearing the Lambdas if there's a song or game environment with the sound of rain, in particular-it's that immersive in its own way, like there is no veil over my ears. I wonder how well the HTF600 can handle that sort of thing.)
 
Tomorrow can't come soon enough. I might even have a hard time sleeping tonight, then waking up early and constantly peering out the window for the UPS truck. Happens to me all the time when I know I've got a delivery coming, and this is going to be a big learning opportunity in the quest to discover what good sound means.

 

[amd7674]

I cannot locate a place selling pads (most of places are out of stock) in Canada....

 
Would the HT600 be if used in a work cubical environment?  do they leak a lot of sound? ...  I don't want to bother people with my music

 

[Dsnuts]

@ NamelessPFG.. You telling me these are your first proper bass heavy cans? Wow. I am more curious about your findings now than ever..I think warmness in tunes has to have this bass presence so these will certainly provide that.. These aren't the best bassy cans in the world but for the money you just spent.. They represent very very well..I eagerly await your impressions.. This is indeed exciting for you and for me. It is like I am showing one of my good friends something new in the world of sound .. That just brings a smile to my face..
 
I am equally curious to hear your stax set up. That sounds awesome actually. I have a lot of cans but most are mid fi at best. I am not quite ready to go up the latter so far as cans go but I will be there I am sure.

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

I cannot locate a place selling pads (most of places are out of stock) in Canada....

 
Would the HT600 be if used in a work cubical environment?  do they leak a lot of sound? ...  I don't want to bother people with my music

Well the velours aren't a 100% necessity.. You might be able to find them somewhere..Well the bad news is they do leak sound.. Not like the AD700.. but they do leak sound. If you take a look at the pictures on the beginning of the thread you can see the air vents on the back of the cup... These have the sound stage of a semi open can and perhaps leak as much as them as well. But I would try them at your office. I think they will do just fine.. if you listen to medium sound levels you will be ok.. On loud. .Well your neighbors might hear what your hearing a little. lol!

 

[sailorman]

 
Quote:

I cannot locate a place selling pads (most of places are out of stock) in Canada....

 
Would the HT600 be if used in a work cubical environment?  do they leak a lot of sound? ...  I don't want to bother people with my music

Don't feel bad. The pads are out of stock virtually everywhere here in the U.S. too.  Should be back within a week though.
 
These will be my first bass heavy cans as well.  I'm not at all into rap, hip-hop, dubstep, trance or psycho or whatever.  I do like my Stanley Clark, Pink Floyd and bass heavy jazz though.  I hope these work. For $30, I figure it's a low risk gamble.  
 
Besides, If I don't like 'em, Dsnuts will give me my money back!!  

 

[amd7674]

Quote:

Well the velours aren't a 100% necessity.. You might be able to find them somewhere..Well the bad news is they do leak sound.. Not like the AD700.. but they do leak sound. If you take a look at the pictures on the beginning of the thread you can see the air vents on the back of the cup... These have the sound stage of a semi open can and perhaps leak as much as them as well. But I would try them at your office. I think they will do just fine.. if you listen to medium sound levels you will be ok.. On loud. .Well your neighbors might hear what your hearing a little. lol!

Thanks so much for a prompt reply.  Hmmm I'm a little worry now LOL... I guess RX700 would be a better choice if I'm looking for something with more insulated.   How are they at medium sound levels?  Do they need good sound level to bring best of them... i.e. bass? 
 
Yeah I can see my ars being fired at work in my cube after 2 minutes of listening to AD700 LOL

 

[amd7674]

Quote:

Besides, If I don't like 'em, Dsnuts will give me my money back!!  

Is that a fact?

 

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

@ NamelessPFG.. You telling me these are your first proper bass heavy cans? Wow. I am more curious about your findings now than ever..I think warmness in tunes has to have this bass presence so these will certainly provide that.. These aren't the best bassy cans in the world but for the money you just spent.. They represent very very well..I eagerly await your impressions.. This is indeed exciting for you and for me. It is like I am showing one of my good friends something new in the world of sound .. That just brings a smile to my face..
 
I am equally curious to hear your stax set up. That sounds awesome actually. I have a lot of cans but most are mid fi at best. I am not quite ready to go up the latter so far as cans go but I will be there I am sure.

You could say that. I'm not too familiar with the sound signature of the Sansui SS-20 and Sony MDR-CD180 due to lack of proper reviews here for each, but the former's a vintage hand-me-down that's heavy and is in dire need of new pads (here's hoping the HTF600's pads fit, and by extension those Beyer velours), and the latter is something I picked up at a yard sale for a few dollars due to comfort and wanting something for portable use (until the headband broke; thanks a lot, dirt cheap build quality!). My first proper, Head-Fi-worthy cans would be the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700, most infamous for their lack of bass, but I bought them because they were what were recommended for gaming at the time due to comfort, soundstage, and detail retrieval, a year or two before the Samson SR850 showed up. (I've since sold the AD700s since the Lambdas do everything they excel at better and lack the bass deficiency, so it'll be more difficult to compare them when going off of memory.)
 
I intentionally avoided basshead cans with the concern you're familiar with by now (overriding the spectrum), though I did consider the Ultrasone Pro 900 at one point because I heard it had great clarity in the highs as well and would have excelled at gaming (must be the S-Logic)...but then I found someone selling a vintage Stax Lambda setup here on Head-Fi for a price I could actually afford, and I had become very curious about electrostatics in the meantime. Let's just say listening to these for the first time was a "holy crap" moment when I instantly understood what Stax fans meant by "clear sound" and "effortless delivery". (I'd let you audition them if there were a reasonable means to do so; more people should get a chance to experience the electrostatic sound, if for no other reason than to learn if it's something they'll like or not. As it stands, most of them are too expensive for a whole system, and the ones that aren't as expensive are discontinued vintage setups that sell quickly and aren't on sale very frequently.)
 
Still, if the HTF600 is a basshead can that delivers full spectrum sound with no recession and plenty of impact, they ought to be a very nice companion indeed. Just like the Lambda, I'm going to listen to a wide variety of artists and genres with these. Funny how sailorman mentioned Pink Floyd earlier, which is one of many artists I'll use to test the mids and highs (and could be very interesting with impactful bass for all I know), but I'll definitely have to test the one song that someone introduced me to dubstep with on a proper basshead can...
 
 

 
I enjoy it enough without extremely impactful bass (I still get a good thump with a beat), but who knows how much my enjoyment will change when it gets head-rumbling? Only tomorrow will tell.

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

Thanks so much for a prompt reply.  Hmmm I'm a little worry now LOL... I guess RX700 would be a better choice if I'm looking for something with more insulated.   How are they at medium sound levels?  Do they need good sound level to bring best of them... i.e. bass? 
 
Yeah I can see my ars being fired at work in my cube after 2 minutes of listening to AD700 LOL

medium volumes have nice bass presence.. Though I have to admit higher volumes makes the drivers vibrate like crazy.. Quite a very entertaining trait of the HTF600.. You know you hit the right notes when your drivers violently vibrate on your ears.. Forget about the HARX700.. Wait till you hear what these sound like.. You would have been pissed if you got a HARX700 and then gotten a HTF600.. No comparison really. So what if your phone leaks a little. They wont bother your next door neighbor too much.. Worth the risk Imo.
 


Quote:

 
Don't feel bad. The pads are out of stock virtually everywhere here in the U.S. too.  Should be back within a week though.
 
These will be my first bass heavy cans as well.  I'm not at all into rap, hip-hop, dubstep, trance or psycho or whatever.  I do like my Stanley Clark, Pink Floyd and bass heavy jazz though.  I hope these work. For $30, I figure it's a low risk gamble.  
 
Besides, If I don't like 'em, Dsnuts will give me my money back!!  

Well it is usually the opposite.. People be like can I pay you for showing me these? hahaha.. You will love these..I know one thing.. I am willing to bet you have never heard this type of quality from $30 headphones...Do you know what the cost is for recommending phones that suck around here on these threads? It ain't pretty let me tell you.. Na. These are astounding and while we make it sound like these are all bass all the time.. No worries. I listen to all sorts of music really.. They sound great for just about every tune I have.. Everything from rock, metal, pop, jazz. to the bass heavy genres even some classical.. Instruments may not sound as good as open phones but they sound lovely none the less. They sound better and better with normal regular use..Musicality is just the beginning to these.. Engaging is another.


Quote:

 
You could say that. I'm not too familiar with the sound signature of the Sansui SS-20 and Sony MDR-CD180 due to lack of proper reviews here for each, but the former's a vintage hand-me-down that's heavy and is in dire need of new pads (here's hoping the HTF600's pads fit, and by extension those Beyer velours), and the latter is something I picked up at a yard sale for a few dollars due to comfort and wanting something for portable use (until the headband broke; thanks a lot, dirt cheap build quality!). My first proper, Head-Fi-worthy cans would be the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700, most infamous for their lack of bass, but I bought them because they were what were recommended for gaming at the time due to comfort, soundstage, and detail retrieval, a year or two before the Samson SR850 showed up. (I've since sold the AD700s since the Lambdas do everything they excel at better and lack the bass deficiency, so it'll be more difficult to compare them when going off of memory.)
 
I intentionally avoided basshead cans with the concern you're familiar with by now (overriding the spectrum), though I did consider the Ultrasone Pro 900 at one point because I heard it had great clarity in the highs as well and would have excelled at gaming (must be the S-Logic)...but then I found someone selling a vintage Stax Lambda setup here on Head-Fi for a price I could actually afford, and I had become very curious about electrostatics in the meantime. Let's just say listening to these for the first time was a "holy crap" moment when I instantly understood what Stax fans meant by "clear sound" and "effortless delivery". (I'd let you audition them if there were a reasonable means to do so; more people should get a chance to experience the electrostatic sound, if for no other reason than to learn if it's something they'll like or not. As it stands, most of them are too expensive for a whole system, and the ones that aren't as expensive are discontinued vintage setups that sell quickly and aren't on sale very frequently.)
 
Still, if the HTF600 is a basshead can that delivers full spectrum sound with no recession and plenty of impact, they ought to be a very nice companion indeed. Just like the Lambda, I'm going to listen to a wide variety of artists and genres with these. Funny how sailorman mentioned Pink Floyd earlier, which is one of many artists I'll use to test the mids and highs (and could be very interesting with impactful bass for all I know), but I'll definitely have to test the one song that someone introduced me to dubstep with on a proper basshead can...
 

 
I enjoy it enough without extremely impactful bass (I still get a good thump with a beat), but who knows how much my enjoyment will change when it gets head-rumbling? Only tomorrow will tell.

Oh yes I am familiar with this tune.. I have a feeling you will open your new HTF600s and start to listen to them ASAP.. You might be disappointed at first.. A new HTF600 is actually a bit bass shy.. When you hear them out of the box you won't hear what they can do...I keep on saying this but if you must listen to them out of the box.. Throw them on your heaviest bass tunes fairly loud  for at least 4 to 5 hours before you listen to them. I actually recommend 24 hours but if you must.. They absolutely need a burn before they sound proper. Enjoy your new phones and I eagerly await your take on them..