[greggf]

Jude, where are you physically? Detroit? Sea level, essentially? And Tyll is Montana? Whoa.

Does anybody here know if elevation/air pressure affects audio measurements? It affects car performance, it affects baseball players, and it sure makes me gassed when I hit the Rockies.

I assume higher elevations would result in exaggerated results/graphs. AND . . . I assume that, subjectively, all traits of a headphone, both good and bad, would be to the extreme at higher elevations.

And finally, I assume that most headphones, including Sonys, are designed and tested at closer to sea level elevations.

 

[Whitigir]

Lol....are we saying elevations somehow has the air density that can affect the motions and how the diaphragms moving ? I know cars need intake or breathing air just like us human, so it affects players and cars performances

 

[turkayguner]

I always trust Tyll's and Bob's reviews, how can someone not?. Just check their history to see what they have done in the past. They are simply honest guys, I know it just because many of the gear they reviewed and measured and which I own as well, I had the very same measurements and thoughts for years. I know how hard it is to tell the truth to the audience in this business. As an audio engineer working in the field, you face so many situations where gear doesn't fully work as they should. If you guys are after reliable test results just send Tyll some more sample units rather than flaming or insulting.

 

[MayorDomino]

Jude, where are you physically? Detroit? Sea level, essentially? And Tyll is Montana? Whoa.

Does anybody here know if elevation/air pressure affects audio measurements? It affects car performance, it affects baseball players, and it sure makes me gassed when I hit the Rockies.

I assume higher elevations would result in exaggerated results/graphs. AND . . . I assume that, subjectively, all traits of a headphone, both good and bad, would be to the extreme at higher elevations.

And finally, I assume that most headphones, including Sonys, are designed and tested at closer to sea level elevations.

Even if true is does not explain the other half Dozen measurements with the same peaks

 

[Makiah S]

We did share some information about what we measured with. I did comment on the differences we found while doing our measurements. Our results are not consistent with Tyll's, and that was also said. Nothing I've said discredits Tyll.

well "inconsistent" is a very polite way to indicate that something is/was wrong, yes you mentioned directly that it could be the Headphone he got, but the issue is that your measurement is the inconsistent one. An the reality is what Tyll and others have measured shows a pattern, so either Sony sent out 6 defective headphones and yours is the correct one or your measurement is in reality inconsistent. Let's assume that the one you gusy have is "defective" or the outlier... that would be TOTALLY OK!!! In fact it's GREAT that you've measured something different, different angels and experiences build the community as whole but to refer to his measurement which is really a strong representation of an average as inconsistent really discredits every one else.

Hiya Jude,

Here's my response: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/head-fi-contradicts-innerfidelity-sony-mdr-z1r-measurements

I'd really like to see the compensation curve you're using and the raw measurements. Do you move the headphone and average to do some spatial filtering?

I'd love to get you the headphones I measured and would love to measure a pair of yours so we can do a little more correlation.

I think your measurement rig is SWEET!

I'll shoot you an email.

YAY, this is what I've been excited for. I hope that moving forward from here, we can get some clarity onto why the HF measurement was/is so different from all the rest.

 

[Whitigir]

Testing and measuring from the factory and their engineers are not enough, please send a dozen of produced headphones to Tyll for an honest and accurate review and measuring. Especially The likes of Utopias and Z1R.....did you hear that SusVara ? Send a dozen give or take

 

[jude]

Hiya Jude,

Here's my response: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/head-fi-contradicts-innerfidelity-sony-mdr-z1r-measurements...

Thanks for the link--I just read it. If the headphone's not an outlier, then I do think you're right about #1 (quoted below) being the likely reason.

1. The geometry of his head may be different than mine and may not measure the 10kHz area the same as mine. It's clear from Audeze's comments about measurements on various systems that this might be the case.

...I'd really like to see the compensation curve you're using and the raw measurements. Do you move the headphone and average to do some spatial filtering?...

Yes, we always test in multiple positions. For the DF-compensated plots, we're using KEMAR DF (I'll send you the values). Here are five positions, no DF compensation applied, frequency response and total harmonic distortion (click for larger size):

...I'd love to get you the headphones I measured and would love to measure a pair of yours so we can do a little more correlation...

That would be groovy. Email response forthcoming.

...I think your measurement rig is SWEET!

Thank you, Tyll. The big website switch delayed our projects related to such, but we're getting there.

---

Our audio measurements in this post were made using:

• G.R.A.S. 45BB-12 KEMAR with anthropometric pinnae for low-noise earphone and headphone testing (whitepaper)
• Audio Precision APx555 Audio Analyzer
• Audio Precision APx1701 Transducer Test Interface
• Herzan custom acoustic/vibration isolation enclosure

 

[arteom]

Well, then whose hp is broken?

Reviewing a broken hp and publishing.... and people reading... and debating...

Embarrassing.

The embarrassment is purely on Sony's part in this case. To have such a large discrepancy between sets of a $2300 headphone. Would be great if Tyll and Jude could trade their two sets and again measure, to confirm.

Subjectively, I've heard both good and bad sets of these, the difference was night and day. I think it's due to very poor quality control on Sony's part. Inexcusable for something in this price bracket. Be ready for the price of this thing to tank..

 

[Whitigir]

The embarrassment is purely on Sony's part in this case. To have such a large discrepancy between sets of a $2300 headphone. Would be great if Tyll and Jude could trade their two sets and again measure, to confirm.

Subjectively, I've heard both good and bad sets of these, the difference was night and day. I think it's due to very poor quality control on Sony's part. Inexcusable for something in this price bracket. Be ready for the price of this thing to tank..

The same is going on for Utopia, pooor pooooor quality control

 

[Beagle]

When I'm listening to the Z1R, I love it.

When I come here I hate it.

Why is that?

 

[Odin412]

Tyll and Jude should exchange hp's and measure. This will prove manufacturer or measuring technique/equipment variation... in theory.

Yes, having both parties measure - and listen to - both headphones would be quite interesting. I tried the Sony at CanJam SoCal and LAAS and liked what I heard.

 

[arteom]

The same is going on for Utopia, pooor pooooor quality control

Interesting remark, makes you wonder what the manufacturers that have exhibited a high standard of quality control are doing different from the ones who are not. Or if they were simply spending more resources on review units than production, which would be nothing short of shameful.

 

[RoyT]

Tyll's pair is not the only one with different measurements, there're another measurements on another headphone forum which show the Z1R ringing like a bell at 3khz and 10khz and awful CSD plots.

Maybe Sony sent you cherry picked pairs for you to listen and measure, like Focal did with the first Utopia for Tyll...

It's a shame because Z1R is such a beautiful headphone...

If that was the case, Sony would probably send tyll a cherry as well, and pretty fast too, they know the significance of he's reviews.

 

[Whitigir]

If that was the case, Sony would probably send tyll a cherry as well, and pretty fast too, they know the significance of he's reviews.

Oh, you tell me about that, I see Utopia is crying in a corner whenever I look in forums and seeing it price dropped....then again, whenever I have Utopia on, just simply with WM1Z and the sound is so wonderful and I keep thinking, it is my ears that were made by woods or else...

 

[gto88]

Say, if the outcome after Jude and Tyll did measure each other Z1R and find out that most of the Z1R has the unpleasant 10k peak.
What next for the current owners.
I have never heard of Headphone recall, have you? fingers crossed.