The Official Sony MDR-Z1R Flagship Headphone Thread (Live From IFA 2016)
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Jun 16, 2017 at 6:39 PM Post #10,486 of 11,341

Whitigir

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Say, if the outcome after Jude and Tyll did measure each other Z1R and find out that most of the Z1R has the unpleasant 10k peak.
What next for the current owners.
I have never heard of Headphone recall, have you? fingers crossed.

I have never heard of "review recall" either ....sorry...I also have my fingers crossed :wink:
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 6:41 PM Post #10,487 of 11,341

Treeko

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from looking at Judes raw graph i've noticed what seems to be a shift in phase resulting in the peaks being at different locations, if you were to move them equally across it would result in the peaks noticed from others at 5k and 10k. Just an assumption but could coupling and canal length of the test piece cause a frequency phase shift.

Just an observation don't hurt me please.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 6:51 PM Post #10,488 of 11,341

EDN80

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Tyll's aren't the only pair that measure that way. Not cool imho for Jude to presume that Tyll's setup must be wrong just because it differs from his (Jude's) results.

Are Sony a sponsor of this forum?

Goes both ways. Tyll and his measurements are not the end all be all of headphone reviews.

Tyll himself says:

"It's also important to note that it is somewhat unwise to compare plots between different systems as they will vary. And lastly it's also worth noting that Head-Fi's system is of excellent quality. There's a description in the linked post above and I'm jealous...very nice gear."
Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...sony-mdr-z1r-measurements#VkpXwmPz8WFjL3K1.99

If different systems yield varying plots and measurements, Tyll's measurements should not be held as definitive-- as they have for so long in this industry. Comparison and discussion is a good thing.

If we follow your rationale, are Sennheiser and Focal innerfidelity sponsors? Those reviews have always been positively glowing IMO.

The embarrassment is purely on Sony's part in this case. To have such a large discrepancy between sets of a $2300 headphone. Would be great if Tyll and Jude could trade their two sets and again measure, to confirm.

Subjectively, I've heard both good and bad sets of these, the difference was night and day. I think it's due to very poor quality control on Sony's part. Inexcusable for something in this price bracket. Be ready for the price of this thing to tank..

Please. Back in February I spent weeks with two sets of these. One in the #5XX, the other, and my current pair, in the #2XXX.

sony2_small.jpg


sony1_small.jpg


Suffice to say that after extended listening (albeit, unscientific-- no measurements) for long hours for weeks, I could not identify any significant sound difference between each unit.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 6:56 PM Post #10,489 of 11,341

RoyT

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Oh, you tell me about that, I see Utopia is crying in a corner whenever I look in forums and seeing it price dropped....then again, whenever I have Utopia on, just simply with WM1Z and the sound is so wonderful and I keep thinking, it is my ears that were made by woods or else...

Sometimes people have little experience or expecting to much, and after spending 4 grand on a headphone they get disappointed.
especially when everyone's got their on taste, even a 10K neutral hp's wouldn't be good enough for someone that like's bass cannons, or vise versa. never mind the "proper sound" for now.
I'm sure every Utopia sounds simply amazing for anyone who like's the Utopia's sound signature, and then it'll be an audio bliss for him, and if he doesn't, even if that person probably can appreciate
what they do as an headphone, it's still not gonna satisfy he's audio needs like he wanted to.

same goes for the Sony's. arguing about sound is just pointless, but it's still fun :smiling_imp:
 
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Jun 16, 2017 at 7:00 PM Post #10,490 of 11,341

Sonic Defender

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The embarrassment is purely on Sony's part in this case. To have such a large discrepancy between sets of a $2300 headphone. Would be great if Tyll and Jude could trade their two sets and again measure, to confirm.

Subjectively, I've heard both good and bad sets of these, the difference was night and day. I think it's due to very poor quality control on Sony's part. Inexcusable for something in this price bracket. Be ready for the price of this thing to tank..
There is no evidence of this, you can't make such claims yet, wait for more proof. I doubt there will be much unit to unit difference.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 7:17 PM Post #10,492 of 11,341

beowulf

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Well all I can say on the Tyll subject is I remember him raving over the 009s and BHSE combo, then a year or so later saying the 009s were 'tizzy treble' and not high end anymore.

We should all keep in mind that this is still an evolving field and the state-of-the-art keeps sliding forward. It can be a bit embarrassing to catch a reviewer commenting positively on a model and years later sounding meh about it. But it can happen. I'm sure I'd be surprised reading some of my old reviews from years ago, we all do it.

And the reason for that is that fortunately there is still some innovation in this field and new models keep surprising with improvements (in sound and other aspects like build and comfort). So today's 10/10 might end up feeling like a 8/10 or less in a couple of years. It's like loving your sports car until one day you try your coworker's and it feels so much lighter and faster. Your baseline for comparison shifts up.

Going back to the topic, I don't think MY views on the Z1R will change much with time. Been ten months now. I see them as a model that disappointed me a bit by not being as perfect as I had hoped (mostly due to the darker tuning, giving the initial impression of a veil that isn't really there, and also bass than can be perfect but can also be a bit overwhelming with certain masterings).

There are also a few pros and cons in the design, and one can't have the pros without the cons most of the time. Great separation and positioning even at very low volumes? Yup, it's there. Detail is there. Maybe it's the big-ass drivers, probably. Does that get you a super fast tight bass? Hm no, but it's still worth it. Etc, etc.

So it's not a 10/10, and it could have been a 10/10. Definitely enough work was put into it to justify a 10/10 - But it's still a really good closed model, IMHO, for some perhaps the best offer in the market at this time if you consider not just sound but build and comfort too. Not for everyone, they do have a sound signature that you either love or hate. I love it, although I'd prefer it to be a bit brighter... it's like an awesome wife that annoys you because there are a few traits that could have really been better. Almost perfect, almost, but... not there.

Don't think this is a model that will be forgotten easily tho. I've said it somewhere else and I suppose we'll all find out in a decade from now. Not the next R10, sadly, but definitely good stuff.

And here's a photo; Because I like photos.

20170312_150346-01-01.jpeg


PS. Love the air and soundstage on these things. For closed cans, it's really something that makes me grab them often if the tracks are already recorded to match them. Again, random suggestion, Jordi Savall's "La Folia".
 
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Jun 16, 2017 at 7:22 PM Post #10,493 of 11,341

jscmd2000

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When I'm listening to the Z1R, I love it.

When I come here I hate it.

Why is that?
Want to return mine too.
Because it is discouraging... makes me feel like I just wasted $ based on a hype.
Gotta stay strong, rock steady, and weather the storm brother!
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 7:26 PM Post #10,494 of 11,341

ToroFiestaSol

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I love the permissive and shady nature of this hobby...such a high price tag like Z1R and Utopia have to be justified with a significant increase of performance over cheaper products, both measured and subjective.
I know, "we all hear different" but not that different, no one with more or less healthy hearing confuses a piano with a trombone.

Seriously, on every hobby on earth, be it super cars or watches, you get what you pay for, and is logical, but high end audio? This measurements situation and measured performance of almost anything over 1000usd is just a bad joke.
 
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Jun 16, 2017 at 7:32 PM Post #10,495 of 11,341

thatonenoob

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The embarrassment is purely on Sony's part in this case. To have such a large discrepancy between sets of a $2300 headphone. Would be great if Tyll and Jude could trade their two sets and again measure, to confirm.

Subjectively, I've heard both good and bad sets of these, the difference was night and day. I think it's due to very poor quality control on Sony's part. Inexcusable for something in this price bracket. Be ready for the price of this thing to tank..

Not that I particularly care for the market value of the Z1R - I have a T1, which should be indicative enough, but this is simply wrong and misleading. The reason why the price will tank is because of erroneous assumptions like these, and witch hunts in the dark. You're seeing a fire where there is none.

I don't usually care for strong words on an online forum, but how did you even arrive at this conclusion? From a logical, scientific standpoint - Jude has tested 2/3 Z1Rs, Tyll 1, myself 2 now, and various others, 1. All on different measurement rigs. We most likely have a sample size constituting less than 1% of the total production run thus far. Procedurally, we have not even determined if this is an issue with the headphone itself or whether varying preferences and measurement methods are accounting for these differences.

Once again, look to early run T1 for "unit variation".

If objectivity is your thing and numbers appeal - then the fallacy of "Sony's very poor quality control" should be obvious. Subjectively, I can't account for the listening environments/ testing environments, but now that I've tried an early run and a later run for extended periods of time, the two are exactly as I remembered the Z1R to be.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 7:40 PM Post #10,496 of 11,341

Tyll Hertsens

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^^^This. Which is why assuming anything is not productive at this point. Just follow the story as it develops and read what's writ, not what your mind wanders to. Sounds like Jude and I will be following the trail of what's there to be seen. Just follow along with an open mind. If you like you're Z1Rs then by all means, listen to some enjoyable tunes as you read. This will take a minute...as the kids say these days. Don't try to push the river.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 7:51 PM Post #10,497 of 11,341

Sonic Defender

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Want to return mine too.
Because it is discouraging... makes me feel like I just wasted $ based on a hype.
Gotta stay strong, rock steady, and weather the storm brother!
I hope you are joking. Why would you enjoy your headphone less now? You realize that all headphones go through this right? If you liked it before it really shouldn't be different now. Beagle was being sarcastic meaning that if people are easily swayed by the opinions of others they will like something, suddenly an expert (and other non-experts) tells them they shouldn't then suddenly they hear what the experts tell them to hear.
 
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Jun 16, 2017 at 7:57 PM Post #10,498 of 11,341

Makiah S

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^^^This. Which is why assuming anything is not productive at this point. Just follow the story as it develops and read what's writ, not what your mind wanders to. Sounds like Jude and I will be following the trail of what's there to be seen. Just follow along with an open mind. If you like you're Z1Rs then by all means, listen to some enjoyable tunes as you read. This will take a minute...as the kids say these days. Don't try to push the river.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys find! Though I would have preferred that Jude went to you first for a collaboration, and then shared what the two of you found! That would have been really awesome!
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 8:47 PM Post #10,500 of 11,341

Sonic Defender

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^^^This. Especially since one of you has already been established in the objective measurements "game" for quite a while longer than the other. - alone we are smart, together we are brilliant.
What does one being longer in the game mean? It is very possible that somebody can still be as good or for arguments sake better despite being newer at something. Think of sport analogies with young players being better at the same point in their career than the previous generation of stars. I'm not saying this is at all the case, but simply assuming experience always makes one better is while intuitively attractive, I doubt it is always the case.
 
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