[nanaholic]

I tried to write the same; but a "standard" only stereo (without mic) "trrs" pin-out:

Only for example... , check it with the multimeter and you do it.

Thank´s in advance.
C.K.

The good thing is with the included 4.4mm cable in the Z1R box (which has a standardised pin layout unlike the 2.5mm plug), one can easily test for where the other end of the wire connects to for the 3.5mm plug which goes into the headphone, and then work backwards again to find out which wire is which you need to solder to the XLR plug. If I'm to guess the pin layout is most likely +/-/GND for the tip/ring/sleeve.

 

[up late]

i think that response would apply to most any product had it been given the disingenuous swipe with the reviewer preferring a product 1/15th it's cost. (ath m50x)... a respectful criticism is one thing but many on here feel that review was not as professional as it could have been.

and we're not so different from other forums/threads with a vested interest in their product (whether it be a watch brand or a car)...go over to at times haughty SABF and insult their schiit (or offer up praise on a chord product vs schiit.) and watch the response (read: .pitchforks and fire here we come).

i read the review, which doesn't contain the disingenuous swipe to which you refer, and i found it no less professional than tyll's other written reviews. i've not seen the video review but even if the written review did contain it, then so be it. as a reviewer, tyll is not obliged to take yours or anyone else's sensibilities into account when he evaluates a product, and in this instance, criticises it for not performing at a level that he thinks is commensurate with its msrp. and it's apparent from the written review that he found more positive things to say about the z1r's design aesthetic, build quality and comfort than he did about its sound. the z1r isn't the first totl can that tyll regards as a disappointment.

and my comment was about this forum, not sbaf or any other online forum. referring to the bad behaviour of other forums doesn't mitigate what i've seen here.

 

[jmills8]

I want Tyll to like what I like, is that too much to want? I want a Headphone that every reviewer gives the thumbs up to.

 

[up late]

 

[canali]

i read the review, which doesn't contain the disingenuous swipe to which you refer, and i found it no less professional than tyll's other written reviews. i've not seen the video review but even if the written review did contain it, then so be it. as a reviewer, tyll is not obliged to take yours or anyone else's sensibilities into account when he evaluates a product, and in this instance, criticises it for not performing at a level that he thinks is commensurate with its msrp. and it's apparent from the written review that he found more positive things to say about the z1r's design aesthetic, build quality and comfort than he did about its sound. the z1r isn't the first totl can that tyll regards as a disappointment.

and my comment was about this forum, not sbaf or any other online forum. referring to the bad behaviour of other forums doesn't mitigate what i've seen here.

ok maybe 'disingenuous' was a bit much...but i won't change my op that he didn't sound professional (lost cred in my eyes) in comparisons between 2 hugely different sets of cans and preferring a vastly cheaper set.

as an aside, it is hard going back to cans....so far still prefer my nearfields (focal alpha 50s)
or even FLC 8S...might just be selling all my cans and mapletree ear+ HD tube amp....we'll see.

jmills8; yes that 3D effect on the iFi micro idsd is pretty sweet at times....i find it can sound too 'tinny/sizzling' at times with certain recordings...i have the original silver.

 

[jmills8]

ok maybe 'disingenuous' was a bit much...

as an aside, it is hard going back to cans....so far still prefer my nearfields (focal alpha 50s)
or even FLC 8S...might just be selling all my cans and mapletree ear+ HD tube amp....we'll see.

jmills8; yes that 3D effect on the iFi micro idsd is pretty sweet at times....i find it can sound too 'tinny/sizzling' at times with certain recordings...i have the original silver.

EQ that sizzle out!

 

[up late]

ok maybe 'disingenuous' was a bit much...

as an aside, it is hard going back to cans....so far still prefer my nearfields (focal alpha 50s)
or even FLC 8S...might just be selling all my cans and mapletree ear+ HD tube amp....we'll see.

jmills8; yes that 3D effect on the iFi micro idsd is pretty sweet at times....i find it can sound too 'tinny/sizzling' at times with certain recordings...i have the original silver.

fwiw, tyll didn't like the th900 enough to review it. he subsequently included it in a comparison and it didn't fare well there either. i happen to like the th900 a lot, but our difference of opinion hasn't made me think any less of him as a reviewer.

 

[Beagle]

the review is subjective, the measurements are objective. agree or disagree with tyll's professional opinion, regard or disregard the measurements, but don't take any of it personally.

Have you noticed a trend on other headphones "forums" (and in the InnerFidelity comments) that whenever Tyll gives a poor review and does not like a headphone, a bus full of folks hop on board saying "Oh I don't like them either!".
Yet when he gives a great review, everyone also agrees, but nobody ever comes out with "Really?? I thought they totally SUCKED!"

So it does appear that many people use one persons opinion to help create or at least justify their own.

I think Tyll's review came off as more scathing than normal (the ATHM50 reference) due to the exorbitant cost of the Z1R. He is also in a position where he can line up what he measures with what he hears. Same with Keith Howard in HiFi News.

But you cannot let another person choose what you like, any more than you would let them choose a partner in life for you, or a favourite meal. Don't let measurements and opinions stop you from enjoying what you enjoy. Life's too short.

 

[up late]

yep, some folks do hold him up as a guru. i'd like to think that i'm not one of them.

 

[shadow04]

No headphones products shall be negative, they are engineered, and voiced to the best marketing and engineers desires. If anything, it is only the ignorance of the users who doesn't understand the products and it brand. Of course, sometime when the majority of the market don't understand it, the products won't sell.

In the end, as a reviewer, or any person to express their own opinion, you shall at the least try to understand it, and if you don't agree with it, you just don't.

It is a breeze to sit on one asses and criticizes, but it takes more balls to engineer and put works into making a product itself.

Z1R is voiced for fun and modern musical products while achieving high definition and fidelity. It has never been advertised by Sony to be references studio professional grade headphones of any short. I don't see how Z1R is negative in those points, unless you have wood for ears. In fact to achieve this level of bass fidelity in contrast with the rest of the spectrum and it balances while being a closed back is magical

Maybe there is misunderstanding when I said negative review, I certainly don't mean bad headphones per se, rather what I really mean is a reviewer should be consistent in his reviews and on which headphones he likes/dislikes. Tyll seems to be leading towards "reference class sound signature", whatever your interpretation of it is, at least when it comes to full-sized over-ears headphones(as opposed to portables) and it shows in his reviews, and I think he is fairly consistent about it, as can be seen by more than one user of this forum either sharing or vehemently rejecting his views on headphones - people who like the Z1R tuning, in general, won't like the HD800s, as is expected. Just because Tyll doesn't share your headphone doesn't mean he is a bad reviewer, it just means he doesn't share your preference. If anything, I think it makes it easier to understand his reviews, someone who likes the Z1R sound signature can be fairly confident he won't like most of Tyll's Wall of Fame and should avoid those on his list in general, whereas those who share his preference can take his Wall of Fame as somewhat of a reference.

This is in contrast of someone who has no stand on his sound preference and simply gives everything a nice positive review. I guess it feels good when you read your favourite headphone getting a favourable review from the guy but you will then be left confused when a headphone you dislike ends up getting the same nice glowing review from the reviewer, now you don't know what to make of the next headphone that receives the same glowing review as the first 2, making everything pointless in the end. Maybe it is just me, but I prefer if reviewer has a stand on his preference and be consistent on it, at least you will have a good gauge on whether or not the next headphone he is reviewing suits you.

Of course this is all in general, no one reviewer should dictate the headphone you buy/keep, it is not a popularity contest, your ears should be the ultimate judge.

And nothing wrong with Tyll doing that. I somewhat disagree with points in both reviews (some of criticism, some of praise). It's an interesting comparison in this case because they are very contradictory.

From a purely personal point, the only aspect that surprised me about Tyll's review was not that it was negative, but that it was SO extremely negative, which frankly, almost read as if it was about a different product. It could also have used more detail - e.g. wondering if the headband is PU Leather?
However if Tyll really doesn't like them, there's no surprise that he didn't even feel like digging much more into the product, which is understandable.

To my ears the Z1R is way far from being as Meh as Tyll put it, and also isn't as wonderful as Steve wrote. There's interesting competition, but they're flawed in different ways and some have a price tag that isn't very far from the Z1R (which mops the floor with almost everything in its class when it comes at least to build+comfort).

As they say, the truth is always somewhere in between, heh. I tried a friend's Z1R over a few days and I do think that it is among the best closed headphone on the market now, even if it is a little too bassy and a touch too dark for my taste, and I would certainly pick it over the M50x(I cannot understand the hype of this pair of headphone, if it is the about same as the M50 I listened to long ago), so I can't say I really understand where Tyll is coming from when he mentioned the M50x in the same review as the Z1R. Also, I agree they are extremely comfortable and has an impeccable build quality.

 

[nc8000]

Yes that is the whole point of reviews. Find somebody with consistent reviews who has had semilar feelings to past gear the I myself have had and then I can be fairly certain I can rely on that same persons review of future gear that I might not be able to try befor buying

 

[Whitigir]

I like Z1R, and I still like Utopia and SR009. Hell, if Z1R could fit my head when laying down on the bed I would still have it.

I no longer own Z1R, but for whatever Tyll is saying about it, it is too far off from the truth. It look like no more than an attempt to attack and defame Sony latest headphones, period.

I do understand that the direction Sony is heading and the market they are aiming is different than the past where the R10 was their flagship, but non the less, the Z1R is very successful in what it was designed for.

 

[Whazzzup]

I pre ordered the hd800S and wrote a positive review for what it is, but the forum was hanging on for tyll review, which initially was positive. I remarked to the accolades from tyll confirming hd800S, that phew I can rest easy now knowing i liked it. He subsequently kinda panned it and the outrage was felt on the forum. I like my la900 as well, so there, tyll is great, I always look forward to his impressions but don't let it influence what your preferences are, or bring self doubt, or irrational exuberance.

 

[Rowethren]

I am not sure saying if you like the Z1R you won't like any of his Wall of Fame is really accurate; I love my Z1Rs and my Ether Flows (open). Although I do have to say I personally don't find the bass ridiculously more on the Z1Rs compared to the Ether Flows I mean it IS more but not overwhelmingly so...

 

[rnros]

Good discussion. Only a (very) few emotional bursts, on both sides of the aisle.
Most have been constructive with the intent of solving what quickly appeared as an extreme perception gap.

I won't repeat my logic, but it's here:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...e-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-663#post-13531903

For most of us, Tyll is an official member of the 'Audio Adventure Team' and many of us have used the wealth of information he has archived and continues to provide.
For myself, maybe others also, he serves as a pre-buy data resource, not a post-purchase perception/emotional supporter. They do exist, Tyll is not one of them.
If you already have the Z1R, and you appreciate the sound, the win-loss review status makes little or no difference. If I wished for anything, it would be that more people were able to afford and enjoy them.

Our dialogue was a continuation of Tyll's report, some of us submit (or think we know) that something is not quite right with the review product or process. It is meant to be constructive. Although, LOL, some of the review comments were very funny, not meant to be, perfect-storm kind of thing.

Moving on to wishing more could afford the Z1R, do not miss the AEON. I've had the Z1R for ~7 months, the AEONs for a week, now approaching 120 hrs burn. Yes, the Z1R is a notch above, a notch, not a different class or league. The Sony design team deserve respect and applause for the Z1R project, as does Sony Corp. for bringing it to market. No doubt, it will remain a reference point. And then there is Dan Clark at MrSpeakers. A $799 AEON that can be placed side-by-side and not suffer by comparison? There are more similarities than differences. Note: this is with a good DAC and desktop amp. AEON does require a little more power.

To be sure, IMO, the Z1R is superior for soundstage projection, bass, small measure of resolution, and perhaps, tonal balance. The AEON immediately showed a little more energy in the upper mids than the norm would support, something like a performance space that is a little too bright, not awful, just a small amount. Additionally, early in the burn, there was a small amount of glare in the same region, again, just a small amount. At 120 hrs, that small touch of glare is gone, and the upper mid emphasis is reduced.

Both the Z1R and the AEON follow a minimal design aesthetic. No question, the Z1R is at the top of the list for design, materials and execution, a brilliant piece of work. The AEON eliminates any extravagance in materials or assembly but still achieves a level of quality that is a pleasure to see, hold, and use. They are equally comfortable, to the extent that it's easy to forget which one you are wearing.

So that's my 2 cent review. Buy whichever fits the budget, both if you can.

Another interesting point, are we entering a time when open/closed design means very little to the quality of the aural image projected? Started on a smaller scale with the PM3, then Z1R fully challenged the preconception, now AEON enters the arena.