[twister6]

Thanks for the graphs @twister6 ! I've been waiting to see some. I have a couple questions. Which coupler do you use to measure with, and is the roll-off an artifact of your soundcard/mic or is actually the IEM? I've seen that type of roll-off before on cheap mic inputs that are built into computers or cheap usb ones. You would have to calibrate the mic but using a 3.5mm cable from sound output to sound input (at least that is how to correct it using REW), or use an interface that measures linearly down to 20Hz or below.

Anyway, thanks for the measurements. The difference between M10 and M15 is crazy. Maybe the FiR M13 would be ideal for me

I'm using Vibro Veritas II coupler with an external USB audio interface, and this one was actually calibrated to mimic IEC711. Not gonna take full credit for this, I had help from Paul/Brooko who worked closely with some manufacturers to fine tune calibration in order to align with their B&K ear simulator measurements. I do have miniDSP Ears (including their own calibration files) and tried to get similar results using REW, but still can't get it close enough. Plus, I also like to run sine sweeps to confirm the presence of peaks/dips. Coincidentally, with an exception of occasional 8k peaks a lot of my measurements do align with Crin's. I'm still not 100% confident in accuracy of amplitude peaks, and as you probably aware our hobby measurement setups are not that accurate after 12kHz anyway (just the limitation of mics used in these 'budget' couplers), but I find the measurements itself to be pretty consistent. But anyway, that is a reason why I usually don't feature measurements in my reviews.

Good point about Fir atom XL modules. I have to try their 13dB one, plus they just released 10dB as well which I'm planning to test/compare. Btw, regardless of 5dB isolation difference on paper, the difference in bass quantity between MX and M15 is a lot more noticeable than M15 and M20, and seems like others confirmed the same. I already went through almost 24hrs of burn in, and still undecided between MX and M15. M15 has a bit too much slam for my ears, while MX is a lacking some of it. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of a big bass slam, LX is overwhelming to my ears where I have to use EQ to knock down 60kHz peak by a good 5-6dBs. So, that is my personal bias. I might also play with eartips, to relax the seal a bit.

Regarding treble, yes, it is that smooth, but it is NOT rolled off. It actually has a good definition and helps upper mids to maintain a natural clarity, but it is nowhere near the bright airy treble peaks of Trio, and even a little smoother than U12t treble.

 

[gnahra]

Is this confirmed?

Screenshot from an email I received from 64A

 

[twister6]

Is this confirmed?

Just saw it in their promotional email with confirmation:

 

[Titienne]

I actually just ordered a set of fir atom modules as I want to try them out and have more tweaking flexibility. Apparently they too are coming out with a -10db module, that will be coming up for sale this weekend. They were quite nice and upgraded the kit to the 4 module kit even though they havent officially put them up for sale yet. I will certainly give the -13db module a go whenever they come in.

Used the FiR modules with the U12t a lot and had a nice experience overall. You won't be disappointed !

 

[zephyrstar]

You would think so, but I look at the Solaris and it's tuned very neutrally through the bass even though it apparently uses a similar driver to the atlas. I think there's likely more qualities to be had from DD bass than just having a lot of quantity.

But I can definitely assure you that the nio is not remotely what I would call bass light.

That's great to hear. I had the original Solaris but found the lack of bass made it sort of dull for me. I do like my Atlas though.

 

[mashuto]

Good point about Fir atom XL modules. I have to try their 13dB one, plus they just released 10dB as well which I'm planning to test/compare. Btw, regardless of 5dB isolation difference on paper, the difference in bass quantity between MX and M15 is a lot more noticeable than M15 and M20, and seems like others confirmed the same.

Yup, just to again confirm I hear it the same way. The difference between the m15 and m20 was almost not really audible. I guess for someone looking for that last extra bit of bass it would be a good choice, but I did feel it closed in the soundstage a bit. But between m15 and mx is quite noticeable. Again, based on your graphs it looks like theres a lot of subbass roll off, but i would be hard pressed to tell if its really that rolled off or not. Should be interesing to try to -13db module from fir when it arrives.

That's great to hear. I had the original Solaris but found the lack of bass made it sort of dull for me. I do like my Atlas though.

I may try and throw in an atlas comparison tomorrow too for the fun of it. I dont really use it much anymore as I feel its just been surpassed by other IEMs I have, but I never really thought about selling it until I got the nio, mainly because its always sort of been my guilty pleasure BASS iem, you know? And compared to all these other large IEMs its smaller and relatively more comfortable so it was always nice to keep around in case others got too uncomfortable. But, we shall see if its been made a bit redundant in the collection too now.

 

[twister6]

Yup, just to again confirm I hear it the same way. The difference between the m15 and m20 was almost not really audible. I guess for someone looking for that last extra bit of bass it would be a good choice, but I did feel it closed in the soundstage a bit. But between m15 and mx is quite noticeable. Again, based on your graphs it looks like theres a lot of subbass roll off, but i would be hard pressed to tell if its really that rolled off or not. Should be interesing to try to -13db module from fir when it arrives.

Just so we are on the same page, this is a popular FR breakdown chart:

So personally I wouldn't call that measurement as a lot of sub-bass roll off

 

[antdroid]

I'm using Vibro Veritas II coupler with an external USB audio interface, and this one was actually calibrated to mimic IEC711. Not gonna take full credit for this, I had help from Paul/Brooko who worked closely with some manufacturers to fine tune calibration in order to align with their B&K ear simulator measurements. I do have miniDSP Ears (including their own calibration files) and tried to get similar results using REW, but still can't get it close enough. Plus, I also like to run sine sweeps to confirm the presence of peaks/dips. Coincidentally, with an exception of occasional 8k peaks a lot of my measurements do align with Crin's. I'm still not 100% confident in accuracy of amplitude peaks, and as you probably aware our hobby measurement setups are not that accurate after 12kHz anyway (just the limitation of mics used in these 'budget' couplers), but I find the measurements itself to be pretty consistent. But anyway, that is a reason why I usually don't feature measurements in my reviews.

Good point about Fir atom XL modules. I have to try their 13dB one, plus they just released 10dB as well which I'm planning to test/compare. Btw, regardless of 5dB isolation difference on paper, the difference in bass quantity between MX and M15 is a lot more noticeable than M15 and M20, and seems like others confirmed the same. I already went through almost 24hrs of burn in, and still undecided between MX and M15. M15 has a bit too much slam for my ears, while MX is a lacking some of it. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of a big bass slam, LX is overwhelming to my ears where I have to use EQ to knock down 60kHz peak by a good 5-6dBs. So, that is my personal bias. I might also play with eartips, to relax the seal a bit.

Regarding treble, yes, it is that smooth, but it is NOT rolled off. It actually has a good definition and helps upper mids to maintain a natural clarity, but it is nowhere near the bright airy treble peaks of Trio, and even a little smoother than U12t treble.

Thanks for the follow-up! That's pretty cool you were able to get it compensated to the IEC standard mics. Ive seen non calibrated ones and they look odd using Veritas. Anyway, I was actually talking about the bass roll-off more. But thanks for the comments on the treble. I thought the u12t treble was a little too smoothed out for my tastes.

 

[mashuto]

Just so we are on the same page, this is a popular FR breakdown chart:



So personally I wouldn't call that measurement as a lot of sub-bass roll off

Fair enough, not sure what you would call a lot of roll off, but it does just look like the sub bass does have a noticeable dip on your graph from about 50hz, which seems to cover a good portion of the subbass, at least with the mx module. Then again, I probably am not the best person to identify sounds specifically by exactly where they would appear on a fr graph anyways.

Either way, I like what I am hearing regardless and I appreciate you posting those graphs to further the discussion. I try my best to keep up, but some of you guys are definitely playing in another league.

 

[rantng]

Just saw it in their promotional email with confirmation:

Thanks, just got the same email and was about to post the same pic!

 

[twister6]

Fair enough, not sure what you would call a lot of roll off, but it does just look like the sub bass does have a noticeable dip on your graph from about 50hz, which seems to cover a good portion of the subbass, at least with the mx module. Then again, I probably am not the best person to identify sounds specifically by exactly where they would appear on a fr graph anyways.

Either way, I like what I am hearing regardless and I appreciate you posting those graphs to further the discussion. I try my best to keep up, but some of you guys are definitely playing in another league.

Yes, I agree with you and @antdroid, with MX module sub-bass roll off is more noticeable. I do need to spend more time listening and taking notes once I get to it, after all, only got it yesterday and it still needs a burn in. A lot of new stuff arrived in the last few months, and i'm jumping from one thing to the other. Like, for example, I didn't even spent too much time with A18s which arrived along with Nio yesterday... and btw, from initial listening A18s sounds quite different from reference sound of U18t, sounding fuller, warmer, denser, smoother.

Btw, here is something interesting since so many people are asking about Nio vs LX comparison, I just looked into my archive of FRs, and you can see how LX compares to Nio w/M15

 

[EternalShadow]

Damn, I wish that cable deal lasted longer. I also wish I listened to the U12t so that I had something to reference your impressions to. My friend mentioned the U12t treble was too smoothed for him. But I don't know what his taste is compared to mine. I think a perfect iem freq for me would be the bass tunability of the Nio (with modules), the mids of the Nio or U12t (maybe with a little more weight?) and the treble of the U18S.

Damn the Nio looks beautiful

 

[nrbatista]

I just looked into my archive of FRs

Hi, would you happen to have the FR for Trió you could share? I went through your review of it and wasn’t able to find it. Thanks in advance.

 

[GiullianSN]

Yes, I agree with you and @antdroid, with MX module sub-bass roll off is more noticeable. I do need to spend more time listening and taking notes once I get to it, after all, only got it yesterday and it still needs a burn in. A lot of new stuff arrived in the last few months, and i'm jumping from one thing to the other. Like, for example, I didn't even spent too much time with A18s which arrived along with Nio yesterday... and btw, from initial listening A18s sounds quite different from reference sound of U18t, sounding fuller, warmer, denser, smoother.

Btw, here is something interesting since so many people are asking about Nio vs LX comparison, I just looked into my archive of FRs, and you can see how LX compares to Nio w/M15

Looking at those graphs is hard to justify a NIO if I already have the LX. Was expecting a bit more highs.

 

[choisan]

is the free silver cable with 4.4 termination just temporary unavailable? i am pending my purchase