The Official 64 Audio Thread | apex & tia Technologies
Nov 4, 2021 at 10:13 PM Post #18,886 of 19,321

aaf evo

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I tried that briefly... it's nice but I'm undecided between soundstage vs bass :sweat_smile:

soundstage on the 12t to me is on the more intimate side anyways so I went full bass, but I prefer the extra isolation too since I use them outside of my home daily.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 10:17 PM Post #18,887 of 19,321

Ojisan

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soundstage on the 12t to me is on the more intimate side anyways so I went full bass, but I prefer the extra isolation too since I use them outside of my home daily.
Yeah, and it doesn't seem to narrow as much as U18s so it might not be a problem. My ears are still burning in. :ear:
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 12:41 AM Post #18,888 of 19,321

Rockwell75

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What did you dislike about Dorado? I thought it was a rip snorter!

I Googled the term "ripsnorter" and learned that it's an actual well-known phrase like "humdinger"...you learn something new every day.

Dorado 2020 is actually my favorite IEM for a variety of reasons I won't get into here but I wanted to say that your positive words (and those of a few others I know) combined with its identical driver config (DD doing mids & lows and BA highs) made me think it might make a nice more balanced almost open back compliment to my Dorado and tonight I finally joined the 64 Audio fam and ordered a Duo:

Screen Shot 2021-11-04 at 8.14.41 PM.png

Can't wait to hear it!
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 4:56 AM Post #18,891 of 19,321

MatW

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If the Trio was a Vinyl essence, the Duo looks like a Daylight electronics future essence.... like Existence theory.
You lost me there.
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 8:25 AM Post #18,892 of 19,321

DunkFealer

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stick that M20 in and enjoy that sub-bass 🤤
This is the other question in my mind. Is the bass texture also up there or better? The U12t gets tons of praise when it comes to its subbass performance and the bird is the first BA bass set that can compete with some of the best I've heard. So I may have to see about trying one out if the bass is that good...
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 8:28 AM Post #18,893 of 19,321

DunkFealer

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I don't have many hours on U12t yet but my current impression is that they have similar flavor. Just technically very slightly behind the bird.

Compared to U12t + M15, the bird has wider soundstage and little more subbass, little more clarity/separation in mids. The upper mids and treble sparkle are little bit softer than U12t.

I think U12t has taller soundstage. I like that because drum kit cymbals comes from top as it should. Bird doesn't sound so high to me. U12t also has the right amount of upper-mids to me. It gives bite/sharp transients (guitar strum attacks, cymbals, and electronics) where needed without exaggeration. You can kind of see these traits in the graph (say, by Precogvision).
Also, thanks for your impressions 🙏
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 9:01 AM Post #18,895 of 19,321

aaf evo

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This is the other question in my mind. Is the bass texture also up there or better? The U12t gets tons of praise when it comes to its subbass performance and the bird is the first BA bass set that can compete with some of the best I've heard. So I may have to see about trying one out if the bass is that good...

it’s good but it’s still BA bass at the end of the day, I’m biased here. The tuning + quantity makes it better than Traillii bass to me as I grew to hear it as bass light eventually. I don’t think I’d be able to give a proper comparison here as one just suits my tastes much more unfortunately.
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 10:37 AM Post #18,896 of 19,321

Ojisan

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This is the other question in my mind. Is the bass texture also up there or better? The U12t gets tons of praise when it comes to its subbass performance and the bird is the first BA bass set that can compete with some of the best I've heard. So I may have to see about trying one out if the bass is that good...
My take on comparing Traillii bass and U12t bass - I would say that they have different qualities. Traillii bass to me is a softer fatter bass that fills your head (I might call it slightly boomy but not to be confused with poor quality boom as it is good quality and resolving bass). U12t (M20) on the other hand has faster tight bass that reaches equally low. It just does not linger or fill your ears like Traillii (or EVO for that matter). It's not so dry as to make jazz upright bass and piano lifeless. U12t has very good note weight/body in my book.

Take the Pantera song for example. U12t let's me hear the drums, bass, guitar, and vocal well separated. With Traillii, the sound fills your head as if you are listening in a small club with a wall of 15" speakers+horns, relatively speaking.

With Charlie Haden & Pat Metheny, you can kick back with more analog sounding Traillii, or listen to the fine nuance with U12t.







 
Nov 5, 2021 at 10:44 AM Post #18,897 of 19,321

gLer

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My take on comparing Traillii bass and U12t bass - I would say that they have different qualities. Traillii bass to me is a softer fatter bass that fills your head (I might call it slightly boomy but not to be confused with poor quality boom as it is good quality and resolving bass). U12t (M20) on the other hand has faster tight bass that reaches equally low. It just does not linger or fill your ears like Traillii (or EVO for that matter). It's not so dry as to make jazz upright bass and piano lifeless. U12t has very good note weight/body in my book.

Take the Pantera song for example. U12t let's me hear the drums, bass, guitar, and vocal well separated. With Traillii, the sound fills your head as if you are listening in a small club with a wall of 15" speakers+horns, relatively speaking.

With Charlie Haden & Pat Metheny, you can kick back with more analog sounding Traillii, or listen to the fine nuance with U12t.








Also, I don't think you can have both (head-filling speaker-like bass and tighter more incisive bass). It's either or, and really a preference thing. I find the former more natural and life-like, the latter more clinical and so-called 'audiophile', taking focus off the bass and casting it more on the other frequencies. EVO for me is the pinnacle of life-like/speaker-like bass, U12t is more clinical (albeit with more quantity than typic BA bass), and Traillii splits the difference.
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 10:56 AM Post #18,898 of 19,321

Deezel177

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My take on comparing Traillii bass and U12t bass - I would say that they have different qualities. Traillii bass to me is a softer fatter bass that fills your head (I might call it slightly boomy but not to be confused with poor quality boom as it is good quality and resolving bass). U12t (M20) on the other hand has faster tight bass that reaches equally low. It just does not linger or fill your ears like Traillii (or EVO for that matter). It's not so dry as to make jazz upright bass and piano lifeless. U12t has very good note weight/body in my book.

Take the Pantera song for example. U12t let's me hear the drums, bass, guitar, and vocal well separated. With Traillii, the sound fills your head as if you are listening in a small club with a wall of 15" speakers+horns, relatively speaking.

With Charlie Haden & Pat Metheny, you can kick back with more analog sounding Traillii, or listen to the fine nuance with U12t.








My friend, you’ve just encapsulated a sub-bass emphasis vs. a mid-bass emphasis in a nutshell. :wink:

Also, I don't think you can have both (head-filling speaker-like bass and tighter more incisive bass). It's either or, and really a preference thing. I find the former more natural and life-like, the latter more clinical and so-called 'audiophile', taking focus off the bass and casting it more on the other frequencies. EVO for me is the pinnacle of life-like/speaker-like bass, U12t is more clinical (albeit with more quantity than typic BA bass), and Traillii splits the difference.
Yup, this is what I was talking about with the PHoNIX earlier. The closest you can get would probably be a mid-bass bias with great sub-bass extension. Strong sub-bass rumble will always end up distracting - at least a little bit - from an IEM’s tidiness or precision in imaging. Like, as soon you start to get an idea of where each instrument is supposed to be, a wave of sub-bass washes it away, and you have to get your bearings again.
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 11:15 AM Post #18,899 of 19,321

gLer

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My friend, you’ve just encapsulated a sub-bass emphasis vs. a mid-bass emphasis in a nutshell. :wink:


Yup, this is what I was talking about with the PHoNIX earlier. The closest you can get would probably be a mid-bass bias with great sub-bass extension. Strong sub-bass rumble will always end up distracting - at least a little bit - from an IEM’s tidiness or precision in imaging. Like, as soon you start to get an idea of where each instrument is supposed to be, a wave of sub-bass washes it away, and you have to get your bearings again.
Brilliant descriptions all round. I can now blame my sub bass addiction for not being able to hear the flutter of the strings in the third row of the orchestra. Actually stuff the strings, gimme the bass! 😎
 
Nov 5, 2021 at 11:33 AM Post #18,900 of 19,321

aaf evo

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The sub bass talk is what I find somewhat “wrong” about the Elysian X, it’s probably the most sub bass focused IEM I have heard. It’s damn satisfying but what I perceive as a lack of mid bass throws off timbre. I think 12t M20 really nails a good mid and sub bass presence.
 

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