[Dobrescu George]

This is what I object to George:

I actually like to hear cymbals clearly, so I don't mind a little extra at 7 kHz as long as its not over done. I also like being able to hear the decay on a cymbal strike, or the brushing of cymbals. The H3 has 10 dB extra at 7 kHz over and above the bass and way more than that over the lower mid-range. You don't get a proper cymbal sound - you get a hard crash which doesn't remotely resemble a cymbal, and there is no decay - just a blob of high energy noise.

And how exactly do the Kinera H3 give dynamically compressed music a new lease of life? How can that even make sense given their flaws.

Question - what is your neutral reference, and did you use it at all when you were reviewing the H3 (to compare and make sure your brain hadn't compensated to a clearly coloured IEM)?

The Kinera H3 would show sibilance in tracks I didn't even know I had sibilance in. I was expecting it to sound a little hot (from some of the reviews). I wasn't expecting the utter mess, the stridency and disonance in the mid-range, the lack of cohesion, and the treble which was etched so high that listening to decently recorded music was not pleasant.

But don't mind me - judging by the number of 4 and 5 star reviews, I am clearly wrong.

I was actually using DK-3001 to reset my brain, should be excellent at this. Yes, I can hear the hot treble and coloration compared to DK-3001.

When reviewing I reset my brain at quarter - half an hour intervals or so, so the brain will unavoidably compensate for the colored sound. In 3 minutes the brain usually compensates for a large part of the coloration, and it takes me around 1 minute to change the IEM, so there is some physical limitation at the logistic level of doing this. With AMPs / DACs / DAPs, you can use one of those tools where you change it at the switch of a button, but with IEMs, you have a pause as long as you take to adjust something. I cannot change the thing faster, or my ears start hurting. I have sensitive skin somewhere in the ear, I get bleeding from double and triple flanges for example, maybe except for etymotic which are somehow not causing this, this is why I avoid some stock tips, and stay with spinfits

I think that what I'm hearing about the dynamics is that they sound more lively, as a result of the more treble. More live (?) A lot of the music has the cymbal trails made too short in the mastering process, so the extra enhancement kinda makes it livelier and more dynamic to me. DK-3001 is also good in this aspect.

Did you try the songs above?

 

[ostewart]

I don't want to cause more arguments, but for all its flaws, the H3 is actually an enjoyable IEM for me. That's the important part, for me.

Yes there is excess energy in the treble, and the treble is not the most defined, but for me this does not cause fatigue and as long as buyers are aware of this then it is up to them. And yes I agree that cymbal crashes do not sound the most realistic, but then again a lot of headphones and IEM's never sound remotely like live cymbals which tend to carry a lot more energy than most people like in headphones.

The lower midrange lacks body, but the bass is well controlled with great extension.

Yes the H3 is flawed, but still somewhat fun to listen to and to me is still not bad value for money. Again YMMV and people hear things differently, ear anatomy and tolerance to treble varies from person to person, so whilst a mic may pick up that pronounced 7kHz peak, it may not be as big in some peoples ears as others.

 

[HungryPanda]

I actually enjoy listening to mine when I use them

 

[Dobrescu George]

I don't want to cause more arguments, but for all its flaws, the H3 is actually an enjoyable IEM for me. That's the important part, for me.

Yes there is excess energy in the treble, and the treble is not the most defined, but for me this does not cause fatigue and as long as buyers are aware of this then it is up to them. And yes I agree that cymbal crashes do not sound the most realistic, but then again a lot of headphones and IEM's never sound remotely like live cymbals which tend to carry a lot more energy than most people like in headphones.

The lower midrange lacks body, but the bass is well controlled with great extension.

Yes the H3 is flawed, but still somewhat fun to listen to and to me is still not bad value for money. Again YMMV and people hear things differently, ear anatomy and tolerance to treble varies from person to person, so whilst a mic may pick up that pronounced 7kHz peak, it may not be as big in some peoples ears as others.

This is what I've been trying to say...

I am having fun with them when I'm using them.

Colored but fun!

 

[ostewart]

Something does not have to be neutral or devoid of peaks to be good value for money, different people look for different things in IEM's, meaning a V-shaped signature headphone may score higher than a more reference style tuning when done right and it is a combination of factors and not just sound alone.

I can see quite a few people enjoy the energetic, slightly bright sound of the H3, and that is what matters, enjoyment.

 

[Brooko]

Like I said - I am banging my head against a brick wall here. I just find it strange that only Crinnacle and I (although ustinj also shows the mid-range as nasal and marks accordingly) hear the dissonance and brittleness in the mid-range. Add that to overdone treble and it is an unnatural sound. And I’m not making this up - the measurements also clearly show why I am hearing this.

If it was just one flaw (eg the overdone treble), I could give them a 4 - easy EQ fix, shouldn’t be there but no biggie. Buts it’s the combination of sonic issues that makes these flawed.

So why the 4-5 grading? These are flaws.

What hits me is that I chose to review these based on the reviews that were posted already - IE as if I was a buyer. I found virtually none of the reviews accurately reflected what I got. And therefore I am hugely disappointed.

Crinnacle has a different pairr to me, and both measure practically identical. This is why I don’t think our two pairs are anomalies.

 

[crinacle]

Breaking out of my indefinite hiatus for a bit since some people informed me that the debate is back up...

Something does not have to be neutral or devoid of peaks to be good value for money, different people look for different things in IEM's, meaning a V-shaped signature headphone may score higher than a more reference style tuning when done right and it is a combination of factors and not just sound alone.

I can see quite a few people enjoy the energetic, slightly bright sound of the H3, and that is what matters, enjoyment.

The problem here is that speaking at a measurement-based level, the H3 is a sub-optimally tuned V-shaped IEM. Now, you can say that "well, it's just measurements, they don't tell everything" but in this I hear the issues in subjective listening too. The problem with the H3 is not "the fact that it is V-shaped", but rather that the V-shaped signature it goes for is inherently flawed in more than just FR. I've heard good V-shaped IEMs and I can definitely name a few; the H3 is not one of them. My problem is not the signature (that's preference and hard to account for) but everything else.

...

Anyways, at least now there are two camps to the Kinera H3: those who swear by it, and those who claim that it has serious issues. Now it's up to the readers to decide which camp holds more credibility.

 

[HungryPanda]

I agree, I have quite a few better iems but still like it from time to time

 

[dhruvmeena96]

Well.....


I have suggestions here for kinera H3

Take the average of diffuse field etymotic er4 and your own signature.....

Then boost the sub bass below 40hz.

Then make 2khz 2db dip starting from 1.2khz and ending at khz.

Then make 7kz slight 3.5dB dip and 9khz 3.5dB dip..


Please follow step by step and you will get something which can seriously blow any iem out of competition.


But please make sure that decays are tight and balanced armature doesnt start ringing

@Steve13

 

[Dobrescu George]

Well.....


I have suggestions here for kinera H3

Take the average of diffuse field etymotic er4 and your own signature.....

Then boost the sub bass below 40hz.

Then make 2khz 2db dip starting from 1.2khz and ending at khz.

Then make 7kz slight 3.5dB dip and 9khz 3.5dB dip..


Please follow step by step and you will get something which can seriously blow any iem out of competition.


But please make sure that decays are tight and balanced armature doesnt start ringing

@Steve13

That sounds quite complicated if somebody hasn't heard ER4... Also, ER4 tends to have its specific fit which gives its sound, a shallower fitting IEM won't be able to have a similar signature most of times (ER4 has a long and very thin bore, and very long and well-isolating flanges, it is a unique IEM even among unique IEMs).

 

[Steve13]

Thanks for the advice, however sound tuning is sonehow restricted to the drivers and different componant itself, also including how the inner structure is builded. So adding specific db to certain range of freqeucy is not as easy as boosting the curve in equalizer. However we will work on it in H4 this year. Thanks

 

[dhruvmeena96]

@Dobrescu George
@Steve13

Etymotic tends to change sound signature because it is too flat....

I am talking about making average of 99.9999% difuse field response curve to kinera h3 curve. I used er4 because they only have this response.

Then some frequency dips to match impedance of our ear to the drivers inside iem. As sound passes through our earcanal to eardrums and eardrums impedance, we listen very info about music. Well impedance matching our ear specifically makes any stupid iem legendary....custom monitor tends to do.

But i suggested him minor dips which can be implemented and can make sound have more senseful soundstage and image.....

 

[TKEOP867]

I received mine yesterday. Broken cable but was able to get a replacement cable thanks to Amazon same-day. Started a ticket with massdrop when they came broken. I've been playing around with EQ's for the past couple of hours but just can't get it to my liking. The treble is too harsh for my preferences and the mids for me just sound bad. Listening to a lot of metal so nice mids and cymbal crashes that don't hurt your ears are kind of important. I loved how good the kick drum sounds on them and wish I could get that on my SE215's. Massdrop gave me the option to return them because of the cable and I'm going to go ahead and do it because I don't them replacing my SE215's now that I've used them some. Unfortunate because I was really looking forward to getting these in and they're just not for me. Learned that I like a warm sound signature over V-shaped though so that's a plus.

 

[ExpatinJapan]

Some Kinera SEED shots

 

[Brooko]

Please tell me the tuning is better than the H3