[teds headfood]

cat cuz?

 

[kkcc]

Quote:

 
I'd love to get my hands on the battery in the Gold and the battery in the Black and compare them on the bench (as well as listen).  Didn't JMoon confirm that they are the same, and only difference is the color of the unit?

 
Yes I'm really puzzled by those report that mentioned different sound on the different color AK100.... 

   even more puzzling than cable burn-in for me!

 

[Birdoffice]

I used to open 3 color unit for mod. Physical inside look the same. I donot think IRiver will used different part or battery for each color version. Not make sense in term of production cost.
I open black and gold unit as pic and try to switch battery. The gold still produce the same sound no matter it is battery from gold or black. Voltage is little diff based on remain charging level 3.71 to 3.76 v. Size is the same. If someone said battery have different size it will be the poor quality of battery. One of my customer battery is enlarge and break the back case
 
For different sounding, I would said it because the coating material to make black gold and silver have different electromagnetic interference shielding. More detail refer to the section 91.4.1 in the link below. It compare between each metal coating to electromag. Interference



http://www.media.rmutt.ac.th/media/e-Book/Engineer/Maintenance/Coating%20Technology%20handbook/DK4036ch91.pdf

 

[Vinnie R.]

Quote:

I used to open 3 color unit for mod. Havenot measure the battery yet but physical inside look the same. I donot think IRiver will used different part or battery for each color version. Not make sense in term of production cost.
 
For different sounding, I would said it because the coating material have different electromagnetic interference shielding. More detail refer to the section 91.4.1 in the link below. It compare between each metal coating to electromag. Interference



http://www.media.rmutt.ac.th/media/e-Book/Engineer/Maintenance/Coating%20Technology%20handbook/DK4036ch91.pdf

 
The 3.7v Li-ion pouch cell is fully encapsulated in a metal foil (the pouch).  The battery itself is not going to have an issues with electromag interference, nor will it emit them at dc.  
 
Next - the conductive tape they put on the battery is so the back plate of the enclosure can touch the tape via its metal tab, which also touches another metal tab under the battery that connects to the GND of the circuit board (yes, so no interference is radiated from the AK100 to the outside - so they can meet CE approval).  
 
No matter if they use gold, copper, silver, aluminum, or tin... the conductivity is more than high enough to do the job for creating a Faraday cage effect to EMI emissions from the AK100 (or else they wouldn't have met CE and other certifications).
 
But this has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, to do with the sound.  

 
Of course if you tell people who are not educated in this field that it has an effect on the sound, some are going to believe it and if they believe in it hard enough, they just might hear differences.  But that is a whole other topic.  

 
Just trying to keep it real here... no offense or anything.
 
Vinnie

 

[kimvictor]

I used to open 3 color unit for mod. Havenot measure the battery yet but physical inside look the same. I donot think IRiver will used different part or battery for each color version. Not make sense in term of production cost.
 
For different sounding, I would said it because the coating material have different electromagnetic interference shielding. More detail refer to the section 91.4.1 in the link below. It compare between each metal coating to electromag. Interference



http://www.media.rmutt.ac.th/media/e-Book/Engineer/Maintenance/Coating%20Technology%20handbook/DK4036ch91.pdf

i thought so... anyways, thanks!

 

[kimvictor]

Lol. MS vs RWA... I'm having the same issue here. MS or RWA.
No mean to start a war. Just kind of interesting

 

[Vinnie R.]

Quote:

So battery may be different... vinnie, any chance of a battery mod if they are indeed different?

 
The only worthwhile battery mod would be using a larger battery to get longer play time.  I don't even think the lower impedance of a larger battery
pack will make a difference on a circuit like this that draws so little current (relatively speaking).  The whole device consumes well under 1 amp at peak draw.
The 2,000mAh Li-ion pack in there can at least output 2 amps continuously (for about 1 hour).  
 
[Aside:  A home audio power amp, for example, that outputs quite a few AMPS of current into loudspeakers - this would be an application that I can tell you from experience
that a lower impedance battery makes a difference.  It needs to be able to provide the high instantaneous current while not having voltage sag issues.]
 
Going with a higher capacity 3.7V battery in the AK100 is only going to give you more play time between charges.
 
The mods that YOU WILL hear a difference with are those that have been covered (bypassing the insanely high 22 ohm output resistors, swapping the dac chip with the WM8741, configuring
the dac chip from using a linear phase filter to a minimal phase filter, hard wiring from the output stage directly to the headphone jack pins to bypass the tiny circuit board traces and the connector that connects the motherboard to the headphone jack board).  
 
Still - it would be cool to get a bigger battery in there for LONG play time, but it is going to make the player thicker and require some case modding so it can fit.  That might not be so cool
unless you don't mind the added thickness or the look of a modded rear panel and whatever needed to get it to fit properly.   I'd rather just charge it up at the end of the day and be happy. 

 
Vinnie

 

[kimvictor]

The only worthwhile battery mod would be using a larger battery to get longer play time.  I don't even think the lower impedance of a larger battery
pack will make a difference on a circuit like this that draws so little current (relatively speaking).  The whole device consumes well under 1 amp at peak draw.
The 2,000mAh Li-ion pack in there can at least output 2 amps continuously (for about 1 hour).  

[Aside:  A home audio power amp, for example, that outputs quite a few AMPS of current into loudspeakers - this would be an application that I can tell you from experience
that a lower impedance battery makes a difference.  It needs to be able to provide the high instantaneous current while not having voltage sag issues.]

Going with a higher capacity 3.7V battery in the AK100 is only going to give you more play time between charges.

The mods that YOU WILL hear a difference with are those that have been covered (bypassing the insanely high 22 ohm output resistors, swapping the dac chip with the WM8741, configuring
the dac chip from using a linear phase filter to a minimal phase filter, hard wiring from the output stage directly to the headphone jack pins to bypass the tiny circuit board traces and the connector that connects the motherboard to the headphone jack board).  

Still - it would be cool to get a bigger battery in there for LONG play time, but it is going to make the player thicker and require some case modding so it can fit.  That might not be so cool
unless you don't mind the added thickness or the look of a modded rear panel and whatever needed to get it to fit properly.   I'd rather just charge it up at the end of the day and be happy. 

Vinnie

Whoa, long response. It would indeed be cool to have better battery life. Thanks for your response! I'm thinking about the 22ohm mod..

 

[Vinnie R.]

Quote:

Lol. MS vs RWA... I'm having the same issue here. MS or RWA.
No mean to start a war. Just kind of interesting

 
Hi kimvictor,
 
No war happening.  I just want to state what is real and what is not real.  If I posted about how the conductive tape (used to connect the back panel to circuit GND) alters the sound, I hope someone would speak up and question this.  You could also believe in this, so where do you draw the line?  I can make a post that if you put little sticky conductive dots on the case that it makes a difference.  Perhaps some will believe it and that will cause them to listen more carefully, and by listening more carefully, they hear a difference.  But the dots have contributed nothing electrically to the circuit.  They might have contributed something mentally with the listener who believes in the tweak.  
 
There are "tweaky things" and there are real modifications to a circuit that you can measure AND hear the improvement.  
 
Cheers!
 
Vinnie

 

[Birdoffice]

The 3.7v Li-ion pouch cell is fully encapsulated in a metal foil (the pouch).  The battery itself is not going to have an issues with electromag interference, nor will it emit them at dc.  

Next - the conductive tape they put on the battery is so the back plate of the enclosure can touch the tape via its metal tab, which also touches another metal tab under the battery that connects to the GND of the circuit board (yes, so no interference is radiated from the AK100 to the outside - so they can meet CE approval).  

No matter if they use gold, copper, silver, aluminum, or tin... the conductivity is more than high enough to do the job for creating a Faraday cage effect to EMI emissions from the AK100 (or else they wouldn't have met CE and other certifications).

But this has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, to do with the sound.  :rolleyes:

Of course if you tell people who are not educated in this field that it has an effect on the sound, some are going to believe it and if they believe in it hard enough, they just might hear differences.  But that is a whole other topic.  

Just trying to keep it real here... no offense or anything.

Vinnie

Hi Vinnie,
I refer to external coating material of ak100 that they used to make the color to black gold silver to the whole circuit not the battery.
I am not the one who start telling them the different but sound different of gold and black had been report from headfier experience in the link below.

Cravenz
http://www.head-fi.org/t/665737/mezzo-soprano-mods-cables-impressions-thread#post_9527973

Rudi, spkrs01
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630288/the-new-iriver-ak100-a-high-end-dap/4215#post_9372689

I update my post above with open black and gold to show them the battery is the same from gold and black by open it and swap battery to the gold unit.

Let do not try to offense their hearing and I just try to find the reason and let them know that it is not because the battery. Please try to hear by yourself.

In the audio world every little thing impact to the sound
Phanom

 

[kenz]

Since the AK100 is a portable player largely for outdoors, any subtle audio difference may just be lost in the sea of outdoor noise.

 
This is very informative sharing though.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

Since the AK100 is a portable player largely for outdoors, any subtle audio difference may just be lost in the sea of outdoor noise.

 
This is very informative sharing though.

 
True but when you are in environments where you can appreciate those differences I think it's worth having them don't you? 

 

[kenz]

Quote:

 
True but when you are in environments where you can appreciate those differences I think it's worth having them don't you? 

 
most definitely

 

[Gramophone]

quote: lol. Sucks to be in the states(although i do live there). I bought the ak100 for about 450usd new. endquote
 
Well, generally the US has the lowest pricing in the first world, so don't feel too bad that from time to time it is not always the case. As I am a hifi retailer in Canada, our prices are normally 5-20% higher than in the US but often prices are very comparable to European pricing. I will say that if I buy 5 AK100 from iRiver, my cost on each piece is more than $450USD even before shipping, and brokerage fees. I hate this ongoing contest where people brag about how little they paid for something - as though the rest of the world are idiots if they pay a price higher than the low, low price they paid after they raped a retailer.
It comes down to the fact that we can't all afford everything we want, but if you are patient, you may pick up a used one for a nice discount.
 
Gramophone

 

[Levanter]

Quote:

quote: lol. Sucks to be in the states(although i do live there). I bought the ak100 for about 450usd new. endquote
 
Well, generally the US has the lowest pricing in the first world, so don't feel too bad that from time to time it is not always the case. As I am a hifi retailer in Canada, our prices are normally 5-20% higher than in the US but often prices are very comparable to European pricing. I will say that if I buy 5 AK100 from iRiver, my cost on each piece is more than $450USD even before shipping, and brokerage fees. I hate this ongoing contest where people brag about how little they paid for something - as though the rest of the world are idiots if they pay a price higher than the low, low price they paid after they raped a retailer.
It comes down to the fact that we can't all afford everything we want, but if you are patient, you may pick up a used one for a nice discount.
 
Gramophone

 
Mind sharing where you bought it for 450usd new? I'd definitely get one if i can get it for that price... =)