The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread
Mar 29, 2016 at 8:55 AM Post #22,291 of 28,976
   
It's lacking far to much micro detail for me. Not a bad pairing, but compared to my ROC and Phonitor Mini, there is a lot of detail missing. The V200 smears some transients and detail and darkens the sound. Though with the DT990, the V200 makes such a good difference. I can't listen to the HD800 on my V200 because of the muddles bits and lack of transient attack.

 
That doesn't sound like my V200 I'm afraid. Any chance you might own a faulty sample? Mine renders micro-detail marvellously. I am lucky enough to have listened to the same performance live and on recording (Jordi Savall and Hesperion XXI on AliaVox). I am extremely familiar with Jordi Savall's viola da gamba sound and I would be extremely disappointed if the reproduction was muddled or dark.  My HD800+V200 setup gives me by far the most convincing approximation of micro-detail and dynamics of any combos I have tried (I have tried quite a few) for period string instruments and period performances on original instruments, where detail is everything. What kind of input material are you using? Another great amp I would recommend is the Meier Audio Corda Classic.
 
Mar 29, 2016 at 9:05 AM Post #22,292 of 28,976
It's been a while since I owned the Violectric V200, but I found it to be a great match with the HD800.  As far as detail retrieval and smearing goes, I can't comment against TOTL headphone amps since I owned it while I only had a Bottlehead Crack w/speedball to compare against, but I can say that it had more clarity, better micro-detail retrieval, and a leaner yet more defined bass when compared to the Crack.
 
There are many that consider the Crack w/speedball a good entry level amp with the HD800, so I'd consider the V200 a good next step up... However, if you're willing to go tubes... I've heard much better tube amps with the HD800 that cost around the range of the V200 
wink_face.gif

 
Mar 29, 2016 at 4:23 PM Post #22,293 of 28,976
   
Well.. we could again refer to the "popular" chart: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg
 
As you see even many instruments lie down in the 60hz area. Most electronic music bass is below 100hz anyway, so I have no idea what you are talking about?? Of course they might include upper harmonics.
 
Most of my electronish' music collection extends down to 40hz. 30hz is getting somewhat rare. Feel free to download any spectrogram tool out there to view the content of your own tracks, instead of "listening to serato".
 
Standard Daft Punk for you..

 
I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.
 
If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?
 
Also, I think part of it is the fact that he/she is also focusing on DnB and rap, which in my experience generally don't feature a ton of subbass content. Rap has always been midbass focused, and DnB is similar. In fact, DnB has been getting brighter and brighter as time has gone on, to the point that I would now call a lot of it generally "bright" in tonality because of its heavier focus on upper midrange and lower treble. To find a decent amount of bass content you need to look to some of the bigger (and older) artists like Amon Tobin. Rap and DnB with lots of subbass content exists, it's just not super common.
 
 
Also, I'm a newb when it comes to EQ, but I hear that the HD800 can be EQ'ed very well. Any EQ programs and settings you guys recommend?
 
Finally "officially" joining the HD800 family 
atsmile.gif
 
 

 
EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI is a great start. It's free for Windows, sounds great, and offers a ton of flexibility. Plus, it's parametric (I would personally only recommend parametric EQ's since they offer the level of control you need).
 
Mar 29, 2016 at 7:18 PM Post #22,294 of 28,976
   
I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.
 
If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?
 
Also, I think part of it is the fact that he/she is also focusing on DnB and rap, which in my experience generally don't feature a ton of subbass content. Rap has always been midbass focused, and DnB is similar. In fact, DnB has been getting brighter and brighter as time has gone on, to the point that I would now call a lot of it generally "bright" in tonality because of its heavier focus on upper midrange and lower treble. To find a decent amount of bass content you need to look to some of the bigger (and older) artists like Amon Tobin. Rap and DnB with lots of subbass content exists, it's just not super common.
 
 
EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI is a great start. It's free for Windows, sounds great, and offers a ton of flexibility. Plus, it's parametric (I would personally only recommend parametric EQ's since they offer the level of control you need).

 
You are spot on sir. Every electronic track has subbass. If you do not have it pretty much forget about playing at the clubs. It is what the club goers want. To feel that thump in your chest. It is usually the kick at around 40-50hz that gets the bass and the rest of the bass is above that. There are some songs that have the bass emphasis on the bass, not the kick but in my experience it is not that common. The only people that can pull off bass and kick emphasis in the bass are masters at side chaining.  
 
You are right in the older dnb/rap artists. My records are mostly kickbass style but there are def. more subbassy songs on my records than mp3. All my records are 1995-2006.
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 11:02 PM Post #22,295 of 28,976
I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.

If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?

Also, I think part of it is the fact that he/she is also focusing on DnB and rap, which in my experience generally don't feature a ton of subbass content. Rap has always been midbass focused, and DnB is similar. In fact, DnB has been getting brighter and brighter as time has gone on, to the point that I would now call a lot of it generally "bright" in tonality because of its heavier focus on upper midrange and lower treble. To find a decent amount of bass content you need to look to some of the bigger (and older) artists like Amon Tobin. Rap and DnB with lots of subbass content exists, it's just not super common.


EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI is a great start. It's free for Windows, sounds great, and offers a ton of flexibility. Plus, it's parametric (I would personally only recommend parametric EQ's since they offer the level of control you need).


Thx for the recommendation, just downloaded and installed both. What settings do you recommend with the HD800? Are there downloadable profiles? Which treble peak, if using iDSD which is a brighter DAC/amp combo, should be lowered, and by how much?
 
Apr 2, 2016 at 11:37 PM Post #22,296 of 28,976
   
That doesn't sound like my V200 I'm afraid. Any chance you might own a faulty sample? Mine renders micro-detail marvellously. I am lucky enough to have listened to the same performance live and on recording (Jordi Savall and Hesperion XXI on AliaVox). I am extremely familiar with Jordi Savall's viola da gamba sound and I would be extremely disappointed if the reproduction was muddled or dark.  My HD800+V200 setup gives me by far the most convincing approximation of micro-detail and dynamics of any combos I have tried (I have tried quite a few) for period string instruments and period performances on original instruments, where detail is everything. What kind of input material are you using? Another great amp I would recommend is the Meier Audio Corda Classic.

 
Not faulty I'm afraid, though my Phonitor Mini's amp section fully blew out a week back.... Sad times.
 
Well I use my Violectric V800 DAC and use a bunch of metal and rock to test out my headphones. Nothing in lossless quality, as there's no difference between my LAME encoded MP3's and FLAC. I do have some stuff from HDTracks that sounds great (Rush - Moving Pictures) and a bunch of Mobile Fidelity stuff. All being feed to the V800 via USB 2.0. There's no audible distortion or clipping on my gear, or noise in the line from my PC. I also have a Marantz multi disc SACD player that I use the opitcal out to the DAC.
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 12:07 AM Post #22,297 of 28,976
Been playing around EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI a bit, this is incredible! Why would anyone not just get the most neutral DAC and amp out there with the HD800 and equalize the crap out of it? I don't see the purpose of trying out different amps to test out different colorations when you have the power of an equalizer. Just using a -2 dB on 8000/16000/20000hz basically completely gets rid of the treble fatigue for me.
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 1:42 AM Post #22,299 of 28,976
What are the ear pads made of, someone in another thread posted they were actually microfiber not Alcantara?
 
If the manufacturer says you can put the stuff in the washing machine I'm thinking some water and washing powder would do the trick just as it'd done for my Ultrasone and AKG pads? Ears produce a lot of oils and bacteria, stick a pair of headphones over them for a few hours and no amount of delicate cleaning with a damp cloth is going to get rid of that itchy unclean feeling when you put them back on. 
 
 
Daily cleaning It is sufficient to dust Alcantara® using a soft brush, a dry cloth, or a vacuum cleaner.
 
Weekly cleaning After having dusted Alcantara®, run a slightly moistened white cotton cloth over it. Avoid the use of printed absorbent cloths/papers as they can release ink onto the material.
 
Yearly cleaning If the upholstery is removable, it is recommended that you wash it in a washing machine, following the instructions below (general washing instructions). If the upholstery is not removable it is possible to clean Alcantara®, by using specific products listed in the web-site www.alcantara.com. If such products are not available, please follow these instructions: dust the material with care; moisten a soft cloth or a sponge in clean water, wring it thoroughly and run it over the whole Alcantara® material, making sure not to wet it excessively; rinse the cloth or sponge and repeat as necessary. Leave to dry (overnight).
 
Once dried, in order to restore the material, brush it delicately with a soft bristle brush.  
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 2:07 PM Post #22,300 of 28,976
Any suggestions on good upgrade cables for the HD 800. Budget around 300€.
 
I already have a very nice Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC for my HE 560. Matt could make me adapters for around 100 €. What do you guys think about the idea of using an adapter?
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 2:40 PM Post #22,301 of 28,976
  Any suggestions on good upgrade cables for the HD 800. Budget around 300€.
 
I already have a very nice Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC for my HE 560. Matt could make me adapters for around 100 €. What do you guys think about the idea of using an adapter?


 Norne Draug 2
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 4:19 PM Post #22,302 of 28,976
Thx for the recommendation, just downloaded and installed both. What settings do you recommend with the HD800? Are there downloadable profiles? Which treble peak, if using iDSD which is a brighter DAC/amp combo, should be lowered, and by how much?

 
I recommend playing around and finding something you like. I can give you my current settings if you'd like, though.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4E7Vmfs0xjhV1N3R1hrYTBqWkE/view?usp=sharing
 
It corrects for the bass rolloff, giving it flat bass, gives it a slight rise to 1k (a tip from Bob Katz for how to give your headphone better vocal presence), corrects for a bit of the 2-5k dip, and corrects a bit of the 6k spike (not a ton, though, since I also have the anax mod on my headphones).
 
  What are the ear pads made of, someone in another thread posted they were actually microfiber not Alcantara?
 
Yearly cleaning If the upholstery is removable, it is recommended that you wash it in a washing machine, following the instructions below (general washing instructions). If the upholstery is not removable it is possible to clean Alcantara®, by using specific products listed in the web-site www.alcantara.com. If such products are not available, please follow these instructions: dust the material with care; moisten a soft cloth or a sponge in clean water, wring it thoroughly and run it over the whole Alcantara® material, making sure not to wet it excessively; rinse the cloth or sponge and repeat as necessary. Leave to dry (overnight).
 

 
 
IIRC, Alcantara is a type of microfiber. But, I'd also be careful about mechanical damage to the plastic in the washing machine as well as potential damage to the foam on the inside.
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 9:18 PM Post #22,304 of 28,976
   
I recommend playing around and finding something you like. I can give you my current settings if you'd like, though.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4E7Vmfs0xjhV1N3R1hrYTBqWkE/view?usp=sharing
 
It corrects for the bass rolloff, giving it flat bass, gives it a slight rise to 1k (a tip from Bob Katz for how to give your headphone better vocal presence), corrects for a bit of the 2-5k dip, and corrects a bit of the 6k spike (not a ton, though, since I also have the anax mod on my headphones).

That -2 dB correction for 6k and 15k is perfect IMO even when I'm not using any mods and a brighter DAC/amp. Does the +8 dB at 10hz make any difference at all? I tried adjusting different values on 10hz but have not noticed any difference, making me thing HD800 doesn't get past anywhere near 20hz. Also, I'm assuming that when we are adjusting certain frequencies, like the 6.5k, that -2 applies to a certain extent to the nearby frequencies as well? Like the range from 5-8k will also get a dip as well? Also, why do you have a -9 dB setting for pre-amp? It just make everything quieter.
 
Apr 3, 2016 at 9:46 PM Post #22,305 of 28,976
   
I dunno, I'm of the camp that believes it's better to go with a headphone where the technicalities match your preferences the most (as long as the frequency response isn't insanely different from what you like). Frequency response is easy to change, technicalities are not. My HD800's are EQ'd to flat bass down to 10Hz, a slight rising response to 1k (as recommended by Bob Katz for better midrange and vocal presence), a reduction in the dip from 2-5k, a reduction in the 6k spike (both through EQ and through mods to handle ringing and issues in the time domain), and a smooth upper treble response. It performs excellently with electronic, and I'd argue in many aspects is better than Audeze's offerings for many types of electronic music. I've spent time with the LCD-3, X, XC, and owned the 2's for some time (they were my primary headphones before I picked up the HD800's). I ended up being more satisfied with the HD800's with electronic music than any other headphone I have owned.
 
DnB is one of the genres where I would say the Audeze headphones have an advantage, because they mostly focus on bass and lower midrange, AKA the strengths of Audeze's headphones. However, despite the fact that my HD800's likely look a lot like LCD headphones in the bass and lower midrange, the technicalities are what set them apart and give Audeze the advantage. Audeze's headphones have a great amount of weight while still being decently fast, and parts of their midrange has some of the best euphonics I've ever heard. However, I've noticed that with the LCD-2's, electronic music was either amazing or disappointing. They have weight in the bass, but lack in energy, detail, and instrument separation when compared to the HD800's. They're also more selective with their texture. The bass has good texture (amazing weight, but it doesn't do as well with faster and more complex bass sections, it smooths them a bit), the range of brass instruments has amazing texture (the best I've heard), but the rest of it is very smooth (which is great for some music, but not so great with electronic music). I noticed I would listen to my LCD-2's at a much louder volume than normal to try to eak out some texture and excitement in a lot of electronic music. This actually led to a temporary reduction of my hearing range I was doing it so much (down to about 17-18k from 19.5k, thankfully it went back up to 19k after a bit). The HD800, in comparison, has very very good texture throughout the frequency range. The bass punches, the midrange bites, and the treble cuts (but in a good way). I'd put the HD800 at the top of the list for texture, which I personally consider very important for electronic. It even provides surprising amounts of texture at low volumes, so I never really feel the need to crank them.
 
Here's some examples of some songs I consider to be very good with Audeze's and with the HD800's.
 
Son Lux, I think is designed for Audeze's headphones. They sound absolutely incredible with a pair of LCD's. The use of deeper brass instruments seemed to hit my LCD-2's at the sweet spot of texture and their male vocals and heavy use of long decay fits into the euphonic midrange Audeze is so famous for perfectly.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRyMoyRPrr8
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wnIs71n_kE
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MKjNVw35Ss
 
I honestly wish I had a pair of Audezes still so I could hear the Undone single with them.
 
Now, the HD800's do very well with Son Lux, but not as well as Audezes.
 
For music that isn't characteristically dark like dnb and Son Lux, as well as music that excels in detail, complex layering, and texture the HD800's excel.
For example, The Flashbulb's The Bridgeport Run is my instrument separation and fast detail test song, and the HD800's are some of the best performers I've ever heard with this song.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udsaOEdBvL4&list=PLzHAWfM3G0U1ZTMqQ7TYlMcgqSjgUsjzU
 
The Flashbulb's Winter Map is also a good example of where the HD800 excels, smaller fast details. The "crunchy" type sounds used throughout the song are quiet, yet have a ton of detail and texture in them. It gets even more difficult when these songs are paired with heavy bass thumps midway into the song. Bleed and separation need to be extremely good for those thick bass notes to not impact the crunchy sounds and the HD800 performs incredibly well in this area. A big part of this is because of how excellent its transients are (especially at low volumes where many other headphones fall apart).
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYDTpYKL7g
 
Yosi Horikawa's work is always very complex and textured, and use the entire frequency range. The HD800's are the easy winner with his work.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CuJqtNdcJU
 
Of course, remember that these are youtube songs, so don't expect these to have the best quality. They're just for reference.
 
But also in general, I've found the HD800's to be more favorable with a wider range of electronic music because they're less picky in that series of genres. Their aggressive and fast nature lends them to make things sound more exciting, while the house Audeze sound lends itself to smoother sound, which can diminish a lot of (but far from all) electronic music.
 
And in the end, I wrote a damn wall of text. Apologies for making it so long, and if you got to the end, congratulations. :)
 
 
We definitely do, we lose upper frequencies as we age and as we accumulate minor hearing damage. However, it varies by person. For example, 17k tones are used to drive off kids under the age of 18, since most people above that age cannot hear them. However, there are some people in their thirties and even later that can still hear them.
 
 
 
I guess it is dependent on your perspective. The HD700's and the T1's are often considered some of the brightest higher-end headphones, and compared to them I can understand considering the HD800's laid back (frequency response-wise, not transient-wise).
 
I pair my HD800's with a Valhalla 2, but I also use a parametric EQ to make the bass more linear and the overall frequency response smoother (raise dips and reduce peaks). My setup is likely more "laid back" than yours because my bass doesn't roll off. I think the perspective is the biggest difference here. You're used to some fairly intense treble, so even though the HD800 is known for being decently bright, in comparison to what you're used to it is not.
But, I think it's important to define "laid back". Usually I think of it as a combination of a darker signature along with a slower rising transient and decay. In comparison to the T1 and HD700's, the HD800 does fit the bill in the first area, but not the second area. The HD800's rising transient and decay is very very quick, especially the decay.

Amazing choices with the sample pieces btw, those flashbulb soundtracks are absolutely amazing with your EQ. I actually had to turn off the Xbass of my iDSD because the bass was getting a bit intense for my liking and I felt that it almost muddied the rest of the frequencies. Just added those soundtracks to my spotify playlist :D
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top