The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread
Jan 23, 2020 at 2:26 PM Post #27,961 of 28,989
Hmm I see, what cutout do you use for the mod, would for example the anax cutout be compatible with your velvet mod, and I'm still unsure which thickness to use, by triple layer velvet do you mean 3 layers stacked on top of each other?

And on another note what PEQ do you recommend with the mod, if you even use one.
 
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Jan 23, 2020 at 4:05 PM Post #27,962 of 28,989
The Anaxilus template should be fine. The thickness of the velvet I'm using is 1-1.5 mm (hard to measure), but a little thicker (if that exists) wouldn't hurt. For the ring I would recommend to use just one layer, the rear frame bar deserves 2 or 3 layers, one attached on top of the other by means of a strong double-sided adhesive tape or foil, e.g. carpet tape (also to keep the fabric pieces in shape). It's a good idea to add some less sticky adhesive tape to the underside with contact to the plastic frame to facilitate the removal.

I've decided for black since it provides considerably higher light aborption. Thus it's not unlikely that it also provides better sound absorption than white (let's say by 5.75%), since light absorption happens by diffraction within the fibre structure, and the same could be valid for sound waves.

I hope my EQ curve for the velvet-modified HD 800 is of use for you (at least as a nonbinding template considering the chance that your individual HRTF may differ from mine):

foobar-xnor-EQ-curve for mod. HD 800 (DAVE + Wave Storm + M Scaler).JPG


This in view that my two pairs require significantly different compensation curves. Above curve is for the older pair. The newer pair, although brighter, needs a stronger increase of the upper treble.

The equalizer used is xnor's Graphic Equalizer for foobar2000. (While I guess your «PEQ» stands for «parametric equalizer».)
 
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Jan 25, 2020 at 2:15 PM Post #27,963 of 28,989
The Anaxilus template should be fine. The thickness of the velvet I'm using is 1-1.5 mm (hard to measure), but a little thicker (if that exists) wouldn't hurt. For the ring I would recommend to use just one layer, the rear frame bar deserves 2 or 3 layers, one attached on top of the other by means of a strong double-sided adhesive tape or foil, e.g. carpet tape (also to keep the fabric pieces in shape). It's a good idea to add some less sticky adhesive tape to the underside with contact to the plastic frame to facilitate the removal.

I've decided for black since it provides considerably higher light aborption. Thus it's not unlikely that it also provides better sound absorption than white (let's say by 5.75%), since light absorption happens by diffraction within the fibre structure, and the same could be valid for sound waves.
.

I hope my EQ curve for the velvet-modified HD 800 is of use for you (at least as a nonbinding template considering the chance that your individual HRTF may differ from mine):



This in view that my two pairs require significantly different compensation curves. Above curve is for the older pair. The newer pair, although brighter, needs a stronger increase of the upper treble.

The equalizer used is xnor's Graphic Equalizer for foobar2000. (While I guess your «PEQ» stands for «parametric equalizer».)

Yeah I can probably do it with a normal graphical equaliser too, as I make the convolution files in REW, I believe it should have that functionality.


I believe my HD800 is around 4xxxx serial
 
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Jan 25, 2020 at 8:03 PM Post #27,964 of 28,989
@JaZZ just curious but does your velvet mod alter any other frequencies than mostly 6khz, I'm wondering if a ADC , and measuring mic with some pink noise will be enough, or is a dummy head also needed to find the FR response?

On another note does it matter what type of velvet is used, I see stuff like polyester, cotton, and various blends etc.
 
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Jan 26, 2020 at 12:53 PM Post #27,965 of 28,989
@JaZZ just curious but does your velvet mod alter any other frequencies than mostly 6khz...
Yes, sure! It wasn't meant just to cure the 6-kHz excess, but for fighting some of the brightness, coldness and diffuseness of the original HD 800 which I attributed to reflections within the earpieces. Of course there was the hope that it would reduce the 6-kHz hump, and it was indeed successful in this respect; but the reflection damping affects the whole high-frequency range, since with the available space and the possible thickness of the damping material you can't hope to dampen much more than high-frequency reflections. Well, after all that's the most important range in an open headphone, since larger wavelengths will escape the critical zone quickly. As you can see, there's still the need for some EQ compensation at 6 kHz. Most likely because the reflections here aren't the real source of the resonance. It's probably the magnet system behind the membrane that's to blame, as it represents a serious acoustic obstacle – and a logical source of reflections. An ideal headphone has nothing in front and at the back of the membrane (not even a human ear, which will reflect the sound back to the driver/membrane, which will reflect it back to the ear, etc.), so that it can freely breath and won't suffer from compression effects.

...I'm wondering if a ADC and measuring mic with some pink noise will be enough, or is a dummy head also needed to find the FR response?
I'm not into measuring, so can't answer your question. Measuring headphones is problematic anyway, that's why I was never interested in it, the more so as I have a hard time believing someone starting with it can get reliable results, let alone better ones than the established testers. Different measuring arrays produce different curves, and then there's the problem with the (Harman) compensation curve which isn't standardized, add to this the own individual head-related transfer function (HRTF) which would require an overlayed compensation curve – but since the latter isn't known, any imaginable resulting curve will be hard to deal with. You can try it and try to correct it in the areas you find inappropriate – but you can just as well solely rely on your listening impressions. Of course having a passably trustworthy EQ curve at hand is better than none, as it gives a better starting point than building one from scratch. In this case using the Sonarworks curve (for an umodified HD 800) as another reference might be a good idea – if you don't fully trust my own implementation.

On another note does it matter what type of velvet is used, I see stuff like polyester, cotton, and various blends etc.
I'm sure it does matter, and cotton is far softer (= less self-reflecting) than polyester. I think the velvet I'm using is made of cotton.
 
Jan 26, 2020 at 1:55 PM Post #27,966 of 28,989
To be honest I find my 800 ok for almost everything but certain female vocals. I have the RME DAC and it has parametric EQ so for the few offensive artists/songs I do use that rather than modding the headphone.
 
Jan 26, 2020 at 2:15 PM Post #27,967 of 28,989
To be honest I find my 800 ok for almost everything but certain female vocals. I have the RME DAC and it has parametric EQ so for the few offensive artists/songs I do use that rather than modding the headphone.
That's a valid approach. However, equalizing won't help with the inevitable reflections on the bare surfaces within the earpieces. So don't underestimate the merits of this modification – if you want a signal as accurate as possible also in the time domain.
 
Jan 26, 2020 at 3:21 PM Post #27,968 of 28,989
Sure that makes sense if the reflections are independently a problem. But if they are because of the 6KHz peak or made worse, you can kill two birds with one stone :)

I don't know the answer but I would prefer not to modify my headphones at this price :p
 
Jan 26, 2020 at 8:55 PM Post #27,969 of 28,989
Back in the, when first purchased these headphones, I was running them with an O2/ODAC. OUCH! Throughout the years I figured that with careful planning when building a rig around these cans you can get rid of the piercing highs sometimes you hear. The best I've heard was a tube cd player + DNA Stratus.
 
Jan 28, 2020 at 12:25 PM Post #27,974 of 28,989
That's a good price :)
 
Jan 28, 2020 at 5:27 PM Post #27,975 of 28,989
@JaZZ is there any reason you don't use a parametric equaliser though, I think you could make a much more accurate equalisation that way.
That's a legitimate question. The answer is «yes». Let's call it convenience. Since there's no published EQ curve I can rely on, I have to experiment on the basis of one that's passably close. For that I consider a ⅓-octave equalizer with fine 0.1-dB steps a better tool than a parametric equalizer. It's easier (for me) to find what sort of compensation is necessary, step by step. Finally reproducing the curve with a parametric equalizer would be the ideal scenario. But here's where convenience calls for its right. And in fact the resulting sound is already excellent enough. If there were some aggressive narrow-band peaks slipping through the cracks I would seriously have to reconsider my approach, though.

However, there's more to it than just convenience: Building a compensation curve for one of my headphones always takes time. I'm rather talking of months than of weeks. Add to this that modifying it as soon as something in the chain has changed makes it some sort of an ongoing occupation (the M Scaler and the Wave Storm cables have caused some sleepless nights – proverbially, but also literally). That's a further motive to just stick with the (excellent) xnor graphic equalizer, at least for now. But maybe you can recommend a good parametric equalizer with an intuitive IU? Preferrably for foobar2000.

After all, for sound editing and crossfeeding on my music collection I use Wavelab's parametric equalizer.
 
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