The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio (with binaural headphone surround sound)
Dec 10, 2015 at 1:21 PM Post #3,467 of 4,136
Can anyone explain how to test surroundsound on headphones?
 
Do I just enable the 5.1 channel setup in Realtek control panel and then match the setting in-game? Or do I set Realtek to headphones with "Headphone Virtuilization" enabled, then set game to Headphones/Stero?
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 4:57 AM Post #3,468 of 4,136
Can anyone explain how to test surroundsound on headphones?

Do I just enable the 5.1 channel setup in Realtek control panel and then match the setting in-game? Or do I set Realtek to headphones with "Headphone Virtuilization" enabled, then set game to Headphones/Stero?

Glooge yourself "surround test file" etc.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1823297-where-can-i-find-5-1-surround-test-mp4.html

You'll need mpc homecinema app to play the divers mediafiles:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/media_player_classic_home_cinema.htm
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Is your Realtek onboard a laptop/PC?
-Anyway to get surround on hp, the Realtek need the hp plugged-in the output and the Windows Speakers Output config need to be set to STEREO-full range.
-Only then the option Dolby Headphone or Headphone Virtualization will show up, if set to 5.1 this option changed to Dolby Prologic or Speaker Virtualization.

-Ingame the speakeroutput must be set to 5.1/7.1, with Realtek hp surround enabled will downmix the multichannels sound into hp stereo virtual surround.
-If ingame have own hp virtual surroundmix, than disable Realtek hp surround, if ingame is hp stereo than its only just stereo 2.0 without any surround processing.
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 10:19 PM Post #3,469 of 4,136
If anyone wants to suggest some games for me to play that have actual 3d audio, please do.
 
Dec 15, 2015 at 8:55 PM Post #3,470 of 4,136
  So I got a question regarding my vmoda boom pro mic. Im using it with my X2 and Im using an Asus Xonar DG with optical out going to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and to my Cayin C5. Now, obviously the Vmoda mic uses a y splitter to seperate the Mic and Stereo inputs of which the Stereo input goes into the C5 and the Mic is connected to an extension 3.5mm cable to my Asus Xonar DG for Mic purposes.
 
But.....for some reason, when the mic is connected to my Xonar DG, I can hear a buzz in my headphones....its noticeable when there is nothing playing through my headphones and everything else is on and a bit noticeable when I am playing something...
 
However, when I disconnect the Mic from the Xonar DG, the buzz is gone. Any reason why this is happening or a fix I can do?
 
I was thinking of getting a Snowball mic and call it a day but I dont want to spend another 50 bucks right now and I rather much prefer using my vmoda mic which does the job really well in terms of keeping it simple. TIA


I've got the exact same problem as you. I have a similar setup as you, same X2, same vmoda, but through an O2+ODAC. What I think we're experiencing is a ground loop. Vmoda is using the same ground cable for both the mic and the headphone cables. Your Cayin C5's ground might have a slightly different potential than your Asus Xonar, and that's why you only hear the buzz when it's connected. I wish I had a solution but I ended up buying the AndLion Modmic which uses it's own separate cable (so, separate ground) and I'm very satisfied with it. The extra cable is a hassle but it's more practical because I just attach it when I actually need the mic and 90% it's not attached.
The thing is I think Vmoda thought 95% of their clients would be using both the headphone and mic cables on the same sound card, which would not present ground loops.
 
Now, I pondered for a moment cutting the tip of the Vmoda cable and see if the ground cable is separate and only joined at the Y-splitter. With some soldering we could simply add 2 separate jacks and solve the ground loop problem. But if the ground is joined on the actual microphone section there's nothing we can do about it. I'm not going to try it because I need the Vmoda for other purposes and I already got the Antlion Modmic
 
Dec 20, 2015 at 5:43 AM Post #3,471 of 4,136
Hello guys i got some questions.
 
I am thinking of buying a Audio tehcnica ATH-AD700 or 900 which are really good for competitive gaming. At the moment i have a Sennheiser HD558 which also isn't that bad. But my questions are, Are the audio tech really that much better and would a 7.1 surround sound amp/soundcard make a huge difference for competitive gaming? I currently have a MSI gs60 laptop where i play al my games on. Does this laptop already have a good soundcard or should i buy a AMP because you can't replace the soundcard in a laptop.
 
I hope someone can help me,
 
thanks.
 
Dec 20, 2015 at 9:55 PM Post #3,472 of 4,136
Anyone knows if the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 (http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3) supports the ODAC? I'm trying to get virtual surround sound through my ODAC but I don't see solutions and Creative doesn't have a trial version so that I can try the application out.
 
I've tried Razer Surround before but it adds a lot of delay to the sound so it's unusable for me.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 10:16 AM Post #3,473 of 4,136
Anyone knows if the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 (http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3) supports the ODAC? I'm trying to get virtual surround sound through my ODAC but I don't see solutions and Creative doesn't have a trial version so that I can try the application out.

I've tried Razer Surround before but it adds a lot of delay to the sound so it's unusable for me.


It does work with the ODAC, however, do keep in mind that you might not be able to receive surround sound from certain applications (Games mainly in my experience) since the ODAC can only be configured for stereo in the Windows sound options.

In the end I just bypassed the ODAC portion of the O2+ODAC and just routed my PC's audio from the onboard Realtek output and plugged that into the O2+ODAC's analog line-in. The Realtek output sounded fine to me when I A/B-ed between it and the ODAC, so I don't think there was too much quality loss. Anyways, after hooking up the Realtek to the O2+ODAC I just make sure that both the virtual audio device from the Creative software and the Realtek output are set to surround sound using the Windows sound configurator.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 10:33 AM Post #3,474 of 4,136
It does work with the ODAC, however, do keep in mind that you might not be able to receive surround sound from certain applications (Games mainly in my experience) since the ODAC can only be configured for stereo in the Windows sound options.

In the end I just bypassed the ODAC portion of the O2+ODAC and just routed my PC's audio from the onboard Realtek output and plugged that into the O2+ODAC's analog line-in. The Realtek output sounded fine to me when I A/B-ed between it and the ODAC, so I don't think there was too much quality loss. Anyways, after hooking up the Realtek to the O2+ODAC I just make sure that both the virtual audio device from the Creative software and the Realtek output are set to surround sound using the Windows sound configurator.

That's strange. I might be talking nonsense since I haven't seen how the application works, but I assume it introduces a virtual audio device on the Windows playback devices and that device would be set as the default output device and at 7.1 mode. Shouldn't the games ignore the ODAC and just assume the virtual audio device is the actual output device and output 7.1 sound? Have you tried this? What do you use as the default output device?
 
My workaround was to use my ancient PCI X-Fi XtremeMusic card from 2005 just to be able to install the Creative drivers and use the CMSS 3D feature and forward the "What U Hear" recording device sound to the ODAC, which works. But I would rather not depend on a 10 year old PCI card just to be able to install a software feature that doesn't touch the actual sound card at all. It's just there plugged in... probably consuming a few watts for nothing. And the Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 software probably has a more up to date HRTF too.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 8:32 AM Post #3,475 of 4,136
Hi All,
 
I'm looking to upgrade my sound system on my pc. I'm currently using a Realtek ALC 1150 and Logitech 5.1 speakers. I'm also using Corsair Vengeance 1500 v1 headset. I'm looking to upgrade to a dedicated card (budget of 200+ Euros) and a FPS oriented headset budget of (200-300 Euros). If adding €100 or so to that budget is a good idea I can do that. My primary requirement is that the headset is very comfortable with the largest possible ear pads as I have very large ears, I also have a big head so that needs to be allowed for :).  Positional audio is important as I play mostly FPS games. Secondary to this is audio quality - It would be nice to be able have good quality audio for non FPS games, but this is not as important. As for a microphone as long as its reasonable quality that's fine for me. I'm 50/50 about closed back vs open back - I like the idea of open back for long term comfort. I would be mostly interested in wired headsets as well although the Creative Sound Blaster Recon 3D Omega looks interesting however I am wary as to the real world performance of wireless audio (not that I'm an expert).
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Dec 27, 2015 at 11:54 AM Post #3,476 of 4,136
I would suggest the sound blaster ZXR and for a headphone I would suggest the Audio Technica A900X and the modmic which you can stick on the side of the headphone. I have used both the A900X and the K702 for gaming and both did a very good job, The A900X is closed back while the K702 is open back but there are other options too depending on the type of sound that your after. the ZXR has a better headphone amp ic then the sound blaster z which why I mentioned it over the Z. SBX surround works very well for gaming which what i been using on my sbz to send over to my external dac.The mod mic will let you add a mic to any headphones, so you can have a pair of very good headphones while having a mic without using a lower quality headset with a mic on it.
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Blaster-Audiophile-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00B1R2AFE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451234948&sr=8-1&keywords=Sound+blaster+zxr 149 euro
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATHA900X-Hi-Fi-Headphones/dp/B006V386UG/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451234815&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Audio+techinca+A900X 130 euro or the
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-K702-Open-Back-Reference-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1451235063&sr=1-1&keywords=AKG+k702 144 euro
 
http://www.modmic.com/
 
Jan 6, 2016 at 4:58 AM Post #3,477 of 4,136
  I would suggest the sound blaster ZXR and for a headphone I would suggest the Audio Technica A900X and the modmic which you can stick on the side of the headphone. I have used both the A900X and the K702 for gaming and both did a very good job, The A900X is closed back while the K702 is open back but there are other options too depending on the type of sound that your after. the ZXR has a better headphone amp ic then the sound blaster z which why I mentioned it over the Z. SBX surround works very well for gaming which what i been using on my sbz to send over to my external dac.The mod mic will let you add a mic to any headphones, so you can have a pair of very good headphones while having a mic without using a lower quality headset with a mic on it.
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Blaster-Audiophile-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00B1R2AFE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451234948&sr=8-1&keywords=Sound+blaster+zxr 149 euro
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATHA900X-Hi-Fi-Headphones/dp/B006V386UG/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451234815&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Audio+techinca+A900X 130 euro or the
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-K702-Open-Back-Reference-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1451235063&sr=1-1&keywords=AKG+k702 144 euro
 
http://www.modmic.com/

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I looked into your suggestions, however I see the Audio-Technica=ATHA900X IS £334.32 on Amazon.(making it 445 euro with the sterling exchange rate) Is this correct, as its much more expensive then the AKG headset. I notice the Omni-Directional Mod Mic is sold out will I be hampered by just using the Unidirectional version?
 
Jan 6, 2016 at 2:30 PM Post #3,478 of 4,136
I know I'm "new" here (I've been lurking for years because it's dangerous for my wallet to post on sites like this), but I registered because I've seen a few of these kinds of threads about "competitive" gaming recently.  I have played several games at a highly competitive level so I believe I can offer some insight and help people out that are interested in competitive gaming, particularly PC FPS games.
 
First and foremost, the number one thing you need to consider in your audio setup is what your end goal is.  Simple right?  Not exactly, let's say you want to be a professional CS:GO player and you've got the talent to make it happen.  You go out and get the coolest, fanciest audio setup money can buy and it gives you an advantage over the competition...
 
That's good right?  Well no, actually it's not in this context.  See, if you manage to get noticed and picked up by a top online team and start attending LAN tournaments what you're quickly going to find is you *can't use* your fancy audio setup.  Not only because they don't allow external hardware, but because the LAN environment means you need noise blocking earmuffs just to be able to hear the game sound/communications at all.  That's why you see guys wearing three pieces of equipment (earbuds, noise blockers, headset to use as a mic). 
 
So if you're used to using the fancy setup you're going to have a bad time when put in situations where you can't, which is why you don't see pros sporting fancy audio setups.  When gaming events were smaller you'd frequently see pros wearing HD555 cans or something similar, that's basically stopped because blocking outside noise is significantly more important than quality audio.  The bottom line is that if you have any desire to compete in LAN events you need to be able to play with garbage sound, and buying or using anything fancy will hurt your chances.
 
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Alright, so let's assume that your goal isn't to play professionally, because honestly it's extremely unlikely that anyone reading this will ever reach that level.  The other thing you need to consider is whether or not you intend to play in a league/team environment or if you are just going to play casually with friends.  Keep in mind that the latter doesn't mean you don't take it seriously or that you don't care, it just means that you have more flexibility in choices because of the level of competition you're going to face.
 
If you think you may want to play competitively in a league/team environment then your focus should purely be on audio quality.  Your priority should be on getting a solid pair of HD headphones and a good amp/dac, then you set the audio setting in-game to "headphones" and call it a day.  I'll get some flak for saying this I'm sure, but "virtual surround" is absolute garbage for competitive gaming and should be avoided at all costs.
 
Think about what virtual surround is doing for a second, it's primary function is IMMERSION and not purely positional.  That means when a bullet is shot past you it will register first from the direction it came from and THEN the direction it traveled... that's good right?  No, at least not for competitive gaming.  It's bad because the only piece of information you need is where it came from, anything else that causes even a moment of extra noise can mask other sounds that are critical to winning a round/match. 
 
So that bullet you heard whiz past might obscure the sound of an enemy player hitting the ground after dropping off a ledge, or picking up a gun around a corner from you.  That kind of information is often what separates good players from average ones, the ability to isolate and process that into good decisions. 
 
The other factor?  Put simply, good players don't make noise where you will hear it.  It is far more important to have clear and precise audio so that you hear those little sounds like the examples I mentioned above because those are the only sounds they can't mask in certain situations.  In a competitive environment you aren't going to have people running around so that footsteps echo halfway across the map, that's lesson #1 if you want to be a good CS:GO player: walk everywhere when you have time.
 
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With that being said: if you intend to play casually you can do whatever you want.  You want to play around with virtual surround?  Go ahead, it's not tied to your equipment and you can always turn it off, the same things that make a good pair of headphones for gaming (soundstage, clarity, accuracy, etc) are also going to be better for virtual surround.  So why the big rant above?  Because people need to understand the mindset that's best for competition and stop putting so much emphasis on the hardware. 
 
There are *very* few instances where equipment will actually make a difference in your ability to improve (don't confuse that with performance), and off the top of my head the only one I'd single out is your monitor.  Which if you're interested in learning about I'm happy to assist, just shoot me a PM or create a thread in the appropriate area and I can explain further.
 
People in the gaming community these days are like lost sheep, they complain about "smurfs" and "hackers" and blame their gear/settings/teammates for their performance.  The fact of the matter is that these games aren't great audio sources, it isn't like listening to the highest quality audio recording of a live orchestra where you can pick out the subtle differences with the right setup.  It's primitive, it's fast, and it's primary purpose is to convey information and not feeling.
 
If you want to play a single player AAA game - go ahead and enable and configure 3D and immerse yourself, at that point you're playing for the experience just like you would if you were listening to a concert or watching a movie.  Competitive gaming is a different beast, you're in it to WIN and winning is a lot more about your mindset and your ability than your gear setup.  I *love* my HD650's, and I definitely hear more clearly with them when I'm gaming so it helps me in that respect...but it isn't because of better positional sound or virtual surround or anything else.  It's just that they are better headphones that produce better sound and with my experience it makes it easier to differentiate sounds and what they mean.
 
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Sorry for the long post, I've just seen a lot of recommendations floating around from people who are really caught up in the equipment hype and it reminds me of the golf forums I frequent.  A lot of people talking about what kind of clubs you should play based on handicap and how this or that will make you better, it's all rubbish.  What makes you better at golf is talent, focus, determination, proper instruction and good practice habits.  The same is true when it comes to competitive gaming, don't get too caught up chasing some miracle solution to make you a better gamer because it doesn't exist...
 
Disclaimer: these are entirely my opinions, I don't claim to know everything and you are welcome to disagree.  I often use strong language as a means of conveying emphasis and you shouldn't take everything I say literally, if you do we're going to have a bad time.
 
Jan 6, 2016 at 2:40 PM Post #3,479 of 4,136

 
Many good points there when talking about virtual surround reducing some sound cues. But I also want to point out that in many game audio engines the only way to distinguish a sound from in front of you VS from the back is through virtual surround. Furthermore, in old engines that can still take advantage of DirectSound or OpenAL (such as the Source engine), you get the benefit of distinguishing if a sound comes from above or bellow you. Now it certainly depends on the game being played, but that extra info is certainly handy.
 
Jan 6, 2016 at 9:34 PM Post #3,480 of 4,136
   
Many good points there when talking about virtual surround reducing some sound cues. But I also want to point out that in many game audio engines the only way to distinguish a sound from in front of you VS from the back is through virtual surround. Furthermore, in old engines that can still take advantage of DirectSound or OpenAL (such as the Source engine), you get the benefit of distinguishing if a sound comes from above or bellow you. Now it certainly depends on the game being played, but that extra info is certainly handy.

 
I appreciate you taking the time to offer your input, but I have to disagree with what you're saying about the only way to distinguish front vs rear (or above/below) sound being virtual surround sound.  That just isn't true, whether you are using a standard "headset" setting or virtual surround sound the equipment and physical way you hear are the same.  The difference with virtual surround sound on a very basic level (and grossly oversimplified) is that it's digital processing to trick you into hearing *additional* spacial detail that the source provides on it's own, not to create sounds that weren't there before.  
 
Games (FPS in particular) already generate spacial information and that's been true since the very beginning of competitive gaming.  Are you really going to tell me that no one has been able to hear front/rear sound for the past 15 years?  That's a little ridiculous.  I'll grant you that virtual surround is more detailed and convincing, that's what I was talking about with the immersion aspect in my last post.  The point I was making is that in a *competitive* game immersion doesn't matter, all that matters is getting the information as quickly and simply as possible and the headphone setting is vastly superior to virtual surround in that regard.
 
Aside from that...honestly front/rear sound is meaningless in an FPS game because you should NEVER be in a situation where it matters.  If an enemy is behind you then you've already made a positional error and chances are it's their bullets killing you that alerts you to their presence, and if not then it's because they made a mistake in stealth or positioning themselves (which you shouldn't count on).  If they are in front of you then you already have a better means of identifying them: visual.  On top of that straight open confrontations are undesirable and go completely against every fundamental of positioning and angles in an FPS game.
 
Put simply: you should always be attacking or holding on an angle where your crosshair will be in position to shoot them before they shoot you.  That means a corner where any auditory information you may get (if you're in range of it) will ALWAYS be coming from a side and never directly in front.  Additionally, when you're playing a fast-paced FPS game you should never be sitting stationary for a lengthy period of time.  When you're moving your crosshair should always be pre-positioned on the positions/angles where you are likely to engage enemies, that typically means moving it in a direction (never straight) which will shift any sounds and give you precise positional information as you move.  
 
Honestly, most of positional audio in games is knowing your environments and understanding what the basic information is telling you.  That's a talent and it's no different than someone's ability to hear and reproduce certain pitches when singing, not everyone is good at positional audio in real life.  If someone started shooting off fire-crackers in a random direction from you most people would look around wildly, almost no one would just turn directly to them.  Having more immersive audio just isn't very important but people get caught up in thinking that something is holding them back because admitting your weaknesses as a competitive person is difficult.  That's why so many people look for excuses when they lose instead of saying "I just wasn't good enough", and it's why I made my post...because having the proper mindset is the key to success and part of that is understanding your limitations and being practical in your expectations.  
 
I fully understand the desire to have the best setup possible, I just don't see virtual surround sound and positional audio as being the key focus areas for competitive gaming...it's neat if you want the "experience" but that isn't what competitive gaming is about, which is why I discussed intentions and goals :)
 

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