The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread
Mar 23, 2019 at 2:14 PM Post #7,936 of 22,297
I’m not sure why you’re bringing manufacturing and labor costs into the equation. The difference in labor cost could be built into the price of the upgrade.

Let's say a used price is $3000 and an upgrade price is $2500. Are you going to pay for upgrade? It will even more upset customers.
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 2:31 PM Post #7,937 of 22,297
Let's say a used price is $3000 and an upgrade price is $2500. Are you going to pay for upgrade? It will even more upset customers.


That’s an entirely different question.

I don’t think customers would be more upset with a $2500 (or whatever the cost) upgrade option vs. the new price of the current model compared with having no upgrade path vs. the price of the new model.

And not everyone likely wants to go through the time/risk/hassle of selling the old model to fund the new.

JPS can do business as it chooses. I just don’t agree with your view of the economics involved.
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 2:40 PM Post #7,938 of 22,297
That’s an entirely different question.

I don’t think customers would be more upset with a $2500 (or whatever the cost) upgrade option vs. the new price of the current model compared with having no upgrade path vs. the price of the new model.

And not everyone likely wants to go through the time/risk/hassle of selling the old model to fund the new.

JPS can do business as it chooses. I just don’t agree with your view of the economics involved.

I don't think that is an entirely different question, and I don't agree with your view. The reason to offer an upgrade path is to make their customers happy. If they are not able to do so (or make only few customers feel happy), it would be silly to offer it at the expense of a greater cost of doing business.

But I will stop this meaningless discussion to me as I am not an Abyss associate.
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 2:57 PM Post #7,939 of 22,297
I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 3:00 PM Post #7,940 of 22,297
I just bought my dad a new apple desktop computer for his birthday....shortly thereafter i find out that they are introducing a new model...fortunately my dad doesnt know nor would he care but i do know how frustrating the incredible speed of technology improvements can be to buyers
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 4:56 PM Post #7,941 of 22,297
I haven’t quite grown the pockets to buy a 1266 yet but have to say that the expectations of some people here are beyond ridiculous.
Putting pricing aside completely (whether it’s 100$ vs 1500$ vs 3000$ to upgrade), Abyss is free to do whatever they want with their products. It’s crazy expectations to sit there and believe that they just owe people upgrade paths.
I really struggle with the understanding that spending a pile of cash now must guarantee 100% upgrade path especially when Abyss has never, to my knowledge, mentioned “upgradable” when they released a product and before the next iteration is out.

Again, pricing aside, expectations are ridiculous. If the business practices don’t align with your values, just don’t buy...

Now, while I can’t afford one yet and frankly I probably wouldn’t even buy if I could afford because of other priorities, I still love to read impressions here, so hoping for some good impressions and less butt hurt statements ... and congrats to whoever is able to afford these cans, OG or CC or TC!
 
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Mar 23, 2019 at 5:25 PM Post #7,942 of 22,297
I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.

no matter what one paid for the Phi retail the used market price is the used market price and one who wants to upgrade has to transact at the going rate....
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 5:32 PM Post #7,943 of 22,297
no matter what one paid for the Phi retail the used market price is the used market price and one who wants to upgrade has to transact at the going rate....
Nope it’s pretty easy to manipulate used product prices and I won’t discuss it here. Nearly all sellers here reduce their asking price to sell faster and this is completely wrong. One should increase their asking price instead. Selling things faster gives you no benefit if you don’t invest that money. I don’t think anyone here selling hifi gears is really in urgent need of cash unless he or she doesn’t manage his or her asset at all. Rule number one of being on the sell side, don’t be desperate.
 
Mar 23, 2019 at 5:36 PM Post #7,944 of 22,297
I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.

I speak as someone who's been around the circuit for a while and who can, in fact, get below MSRP prices from many brands. Joe's price control is absolutely rigid and dealers who cheat are swiftly blacklisted. AFAIK, there are basically only three ways of getting Abyss products below MSRP, aside from buying used:

1. You can go to Canjam and RMAF and offer to buy the showroom unit from Joe directly. I've done this and saved a good amount. But you have to be quick and have cash ready and actually go to those events. But snagging a good deal on a TC might mean that you're saving more than the plane tickets and hotel.
2. You can find a dealer that you know really well and offer to buy their demo unit. I've also done this for older gen models (e.g. the Phi when the Phi CC came out) and while not every dealer will want to do this, most of them will especially if you're a repeat customer. It's still "used" but you get a warranty restart.
3. You can find a less scrupulous dealer from overseas. This isn't too hard (and I suspect what lots of people do with the Chord/64 Audio situation) but you're responsible for warranties and if something breaks it's a mess. I know for a fact that this is fairly uncommon with JPS, mostly because the big market for these is in the US and getting big cans imported is sometimes a PITA.

That's it. JPS has the best price control in the industry I've seen, period. You can bet that 8 or 9 out of every 10 guys that sell their Abyss headphones here did in fact pay for the MSRP. If you don't want to, you either go used or have to be really, really patient. People pay higher used prices for JPS because they're actually good. That's it. I mean, if you want a TOTL planar with great build quality (ruling out the Susvara), no faulty driver shenanigans (ruling out the LCD4, which in itself isn't totally competitive with the TC), JPS is pretty much the only viable option. If they command a premium in the used market - and I would argue that they certainly do, when their competitors can quite readily be found at 50%-60% off MSRP, that's because they are in fact premium cans and the best sound that planars have to offer in the market place.
 
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Mar 23, 2019 at 9:25 PM Post #7,945 of 22,297
I haven’t quite grown the pockets to buy a 1266 yet but have to say that the expectations of some people here are beyond ridiculous.
Putting pricing aside completely (whether it’s 100$ vs 1500$ vs 3000$ to upgrade), Abyss is free to do whatever they want with their products. It’s crazy expectations to sit there and believe that they just owe people upgrade paths.
I really struggle with the understanding that spending a pile of cash now must guarantee 100% upgrade path especially when Abyss has never, to my knowledge, mentioned “upgradable” when they released a product and before the next iteration is out.

Again, pricing aside, expectations are ridiculous. If the business practices don’t align with your values, just don’t buy...

Now, while I can’t afford one yet and frankly I probably wouldn’t even buy if I could afford because of other priorities, I still love to read impressions here, so hoping for some good impressions and less butt hurt statements ... and congrats to whoever is able to afford these cans, OG or CC or TC!

I'll respond to this since I may be one of the butt hurt ridiculous undeserving and overexpecting people you must be referring to.

Personally, I never said Abyss owed me anything, nor expected them to do anything for me, or guarantee me anything. Has anyone else? I don't know, since I responded specifically to one person's post. My argument, speaking for me but empathetic to every Abyss customer who has bought a new pair of headphones and then in a relatively short period of time get the news that there is a new headphone out, is that it's a bummer that there is not an upgrade path there. Of course Abyss is free to do anything it wants. And we're free to choose to buy or not. If that's your rebuttal then round of applause, Mr Obvious.

To your comment about 'pricing aside' -- how is that even relevant since that is the point. You're suggesting that costs don't matter, it's the principle? Doubt people would be moaning over dropping $100, but I get it when it's $5k. My point is I feel for those who feel a little side swiped recently, and that it's not at all ridiculous to say that an upgrade path would be nice and appreciated, given the costs involved. I know a lot of people took advantage of the upgrade available from OG to Phi, I'm sure they appreciated it as well.
 
Mar 24, 2019 at 12:37 AM Post #7,946 of 22,297
@tholt, at the risk of sounding like I’m insisting on semantics, I only commented on expectations and statements. I would absolutely not call you or anyone else on a forum ridiculous, undeserving or any other types of name calling for that matter. I also happen to agree with you that the upgrade path is nice to have but I don’t believe it should be an expectation.
For the sake of putting this to bed and continuing with impressions, I’ll say that while I don’t agree some of your opinions, I still respect them and it does show Abyss that people are passionate about the product. Ultimately that’s a win for the hobby and the product.

Re: upgrade path, for those that upgraded from an hd800\S or still have one with their Abyss, does it completely make the Senns redundant?
 
Mar 24, 2019 at 12:59 AM Post #7,947 of 22,297
For the sake of putting this to bed and continuing with impressions, I’ll say that while I don’t agree some of your opinions, I still respect them and it does show Abyss that people are passionate about the product. Ultimately that’s a win for the hobby and the product.

Yeah I'm done. I think the point is out there enough. I'm not even that passionate about Abyss, I was just debating the feasibility of an upgrade path option and sympathizing with others. Abyss no doubt know the mindset of some of their customers and have their reasons and plans. Is what it is. I for one missed out on the Phi upgrade from the OG, so my decision is to stick with what I have, which is still a fantastic headphone. My problem was finding a suitable amp for them. Not sure I'm there yet. Maybe someday I'll pick up a Phi or better on the used on the used market.
 
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Mar 24, 2019 at 6:25 AM Post #7,948 of 22,297
Maybe Joe should have changed the name to Abyss 1277 TC.

"Total Consciousness" sounds a little tongue in cheek to me. "Teflon Coating"?

Never figured out what "CC" could possibly stand for. "Comfortable Cushion"?
 
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Mar 24, 2019 at 7:38 AM Post #7,949 of 22,297
I would say that profit margins in headphones are substantial, if it is possible to build below's headphone for $250. (actually the manufacturer's price is probably only $125).
Just look at the stylish headband.
Now if a hp company charges thousands of dollars, the buyer must be aware of what he is getting himself into.
I am myself considering to buy the Abyss TC, well aware about this situation, but do I have another option, aside from buying used, if I feel that for me, this will be my endgame headphone?
I can't see how I will be able to avoid paying those prices, as I have no connection to the manufacturer.
It is a very tough decision and yes, it angers me to have to pay these inflated prices, but as long as no other manufacturer comes along, offering equal quality for far less, I will have to pay whatever the manufacturer asks, or stay away from from purchasing this particular headphone.
C'est la vie.
 
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Mar 24, 2019 at 9:40 AM Post #7,950 of 22,297
Maybe Joe should have changed the name to Abyss 1277 TC.

"Total Consciousness" sounds a little tongue in cheek to me. "Teflon Coating"?

Never figured out what "CC" could possibly stand for. "Comfortable Cushion"?
Ceramic coating mate,, lol
 

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