[Remiam7]

Its not much, but it does the job.

Very nice! Still use my 1600 from the 70's. Damn good thing I bought several cartridges back then.

 

[Podster]

Its not much, but it does the job.

Nice Beogram @bjaardker , B&O is top notch stuff. Had an old 8000 series cassette at one time and loved it, traded a guy for his Nakamichi Dragon that needed new capstan's which was a breeze to fix

 

[JaeYoon]

The first thing which I can think of is iPhone.
Even other phones like vivo and almost all the phones are made in China.
I know it's not an audio product, but still it is still assembled in China.

It actually is. I truly believe as long as it's dac accurately put out an audio stream it should be ideal for anyone. What type of dac doesn't bother me I think it would be considered one. Some can just put an amp or usb out.

 

[bjaardker]

Yeah.. I got it for $50 for and got some decent use out of it, but I really should have looked up the cost of cartridges first because....ouch.

 

[Howlin Fester]

I got confused about these two lines because the wording seems to directly contradict each other. If line-out is analog and USB is digital, then how is 30-pin a line-out? It's essentially a weird-looking USB interface, which as you explained (and I agree) is a digital interface.

EDIT: did a quick Google/wikipedia search and it yielded that while the 30-pin is a digital interface, it did have line-level audio output. I dunno exactly know in what way though technologically. Because the Lightning connector does do the same thing, but it's specified that there's a DAC built into the adapter. Info on the how the 30-pin works is sparse to say the least, in my 5 seconds of Googling , so I dunno if having a built-in DAC was also the case with the 30-pin out.

You raise a really good point. I'm sure I could have worded things better.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is that the ipod 30 pin port is a bit like a buffet. You can choose different pins to do different things.

I guess which ever pins of the 30 pin connector that you select will determine which output you get. If you take a look at this 30 pin connector, you will see that the output is 3.5mm. This is the one I had in mind. And this is the one that is analog.

From old school point of view, I never really considered the 30 pin output to be a digital USB audio output because Apple made it so proprietary that there were few amps that would take the apple digital output and decode it. Then things did come along like the ALO AlgoRhythm Solo that would decode. But I never picked that up. I moved to DAPS that would actually play FLAC.

I avoid the lightning connector like the plague. So I won't even comment.

Does this help at all?

Edit. If the picture doesn't upload, I'll post tomorrow from a computer.

 

[guisess93]

Point 4 not up for debate - and unfortunately shows complete lack of knowledge regarding bit depth vs bit rate (or more properly sample rate)

16 bit has a theoretical dynamic range of 96 dB
24 bit has a theoretical dynamic range of 144 dB
32 bit would have a theoretical dynamic range of 192 dB

So why is higher bit depth preferable? Its not for playback. If you have a noise floor of around 20dB (basically inaudible unless you were in an anechoic chamber), then that means the maximum volume is going to be around 116 dB - beyond the pain barrier.

But what about recording? Well thats where 24bit is handy, because by combining multiple tracks, there is the danger of increasing the noise floor. So recording in 24bit gives you more room to play with, and you can adjust the dynamic range back to 16bit for the final master, and still have a perfectly good recording which completely covers human hearing range.

The only advantage to 24bit is recording. As to 32bit - its simply a higher number, and the only ones who may get benefit from it would be with multi track recording/processing.

Point 1 - straw-man. Digital audio is perfectly able to recreate an analog waveform. There can be no debate on this - only from the completely uninformed. Search the net - plenty of info out there.

Point 2 - again, simply shows lack of understanding of Nyquist. Redbook can completely capture the limits of human hearing. We're not dogs. And digital filters are reconstruction filters (not a bad description here). They're designed to deal with reconstruction noise.

Point 3 - the vast majority of DSD recordings were originally PCM recordings - then transcoded. True DSD can't be post processed (remember its 1 bit)! There are some very good pure DSD recording out there, but it has everything to do with the recording, and not the container. The problem is that people will take a DSD recording and a PCM recording (possibly from same store), volume match and notice a difference. Yep - different mastering. Try taking a DSD recording, properly resampling to redbook, and then compare the two (after proper volume matching). there will be no audible difference if the transcode was done properly. The secret to great audio is always the recording and the mastering - the container should be ignored, as long as its minimum 16/44.1.

sorry for being noob but your point is listening to 16 bit 44khz is perfectly fine as long as the recording and mastering is done well right?

 

[guisess93]

Line out - Yes. Line out is when you want to take a signal from your DAP that doesn't pass through the amplifier of the player. For example, ipod. If you want sound from an ipod, you can connect the 3.5mm cable to an amp, but this is using the ipod's DAC and AMP. If you use the 30 pin line out (I'm old school - No lightning connectors here) then you can get the sound directly off of the DAC and output "line-level" to an amp. Line level volume is usually not variable and is what is needed for an input to any amp, receiver, etc.

Line out differs from USB out in this way. Line out is an analog signal that is set to a level volume that the amp is looking for. USB Out is supposed to be a digital bit perfect output that will need to go through a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) for decoding.

(Personal opinion here) I used to listen to my iBasso DX50 with Line out signal into my RSA Intruder AMP. When I got the N3, I connected the USB out of the N3 into the DAC input of the RSA Intruder. It is my opinion that I heard better sound and wider soundstage by using the RSA DAC rather than using the DX50 to decode. That is why I bought the N3 immediately upon hearing the demo unit. Because to me, the soundstage and presentation of the USB out was better than the DX50 Line Out.. (Personal opinion over.)

Folder Play - Yes. You copy songs and folders over to the micro SD card like in a computer. The N3 and M2s can scan your micro SD card and add the files to a library. Then you can use the "Artist" category to search for your music, or "album" category, "genre" etc. Since I just copy over artists and their albums, I just select the music from the directory structure. = Folder Play.

Dual DAC - Theoretically supposed to be better with one DAC for each side of the stereo presentation. But I have not yet owned a dual DAC player. So not going to comment on better or not. I'll let someone who experienced the DX90 or another dual dac player jump in here.

thanks a lot. I have better understanding now. For me, I just need the DAP's line out to go directly to the CIEM, no need to go to any amp. I just want simple setups like:
- on the go: DAP + CIEM
- at home: PC/laptop + DAP + CIEM
I guess both above setups will give me the same sound. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh and I'd like to ask about the cable connecting USB out of PC/laptop into DAC input of DAP, it will be simple USB-male to micro-male cable right?

 

[JaeYoon]

thanks a lot. I have better understanding now. For me, I just need the DAP's line out to go directly to the CIEM, no need to go to any amp.

Omg please dont do this.

Do not connect line out directly to your ciem. Line out runs dap at 100% volume and is intended to be connected to an external amp to bypass internal amp.

You may blow your ears or drivers out.

 

[guisess93]

Omg please dont do this.

Do not connect line out directly to your ciem. Line out runs dap at 100% volume and is intended to be connected to an external amp to bypass internal amp.

You may blow your ears or drivers out.

oh so there are 2 x 3.5mm output, 1 is line out, the other is for normal audio output right?

 

[JaeYoon]

oh so there are 2 x 3.5mm output, 1 is line out, the other is for normal audio output right?

Yes that is correct. Some daps 3.5mm output share with lineout.

 

[guisess93]

Yes that is correct. Some daps 3.5mm output share with lineout.

hmm how to know whether the output being line out or normal audio out, considering both using the same hole :v ?

 

[JaeYoon]

hmm how to know whether the output being line out or normal audio out, considering both using the same hole :v ?

For daps that share same hole.
Always by default is normal out.

You have to enable line out in settings.
Hopefully every dap manufacturer has that warning sign before enabling line out.

 

[guisess93]

For daps that share same hole.
Always by default is normal out.

You have to enable line out in settings.
Hopefully every dap manufacturer has that warning sign before enabling line out.

true. Especially for noobs like me @@

 

[JaeYoon]

true. Especially for noobs like me @@

Eh don't worry about it. There's always neverending things to learn.

 

[guisess93]

@Howlin Fester @JaeYoon
since I only use IEMs/CIEMs, I feel that I never need the line out, because (C)IEMs don't really need amp to be loud. I only need the DAP to play music, obviously, and act as external DAC to replace the inferior on-board DAC of PC/laptop.
While the setup at home might be changed in the future when I have more money to dump on standalone DAC and amp, I think the on-the-go setup will stay simple (just DAP + CIEM) forever. Fewer things to carry = better. Hell, few days ago I even considered LG V20/V30 instead of DAPs lol