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The headphones for movies thread

Discussion in 'Headphones (full-size)' started by bwr827, Jan 12, 2015.
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  1. tripletopper
    I see Dolby/DTS decoders which decode Dolby and DTS 5.1 to 6 RCA out. Is there any device which can take 6 RCA and convert to Dolby Headphone or DTS X:HEadphone? Buty htem separaely instead of together, and have the Headphone output go to 3.5 mm or 2 RCA surround?
  2. SilverEars
    There's Atmos software for Windows you can purchase
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  3. Zenvota
    Doesn't make sense. The unit decodes the dts track to pcm and then applies a proprietary sony algorithm. It shouldn't be any different than a dolby track.
  4. tripletopper
    The Dolby doesn't seem as good either. I don't know enough about Sony's virtualizer to know whether it converts Dolby and DTS separately DIRCETLY to Sony Surround or converts them separately to LPCM 5.1 and then from there convert to Sony Headphone. But other people think Sony Headphone Surroud is awful.
  5. tripletopper
    I actually own it on Xbox One S. Sounds great for Dolby Atmos Movies. Sounds good for Dolby 7.1 and 5.1 too. Sounds awful with DTS movies. Maybe it's a direct Dolby encoded surround -> Dolby Headphones. No LPCM middle step. I might have a similar problem with the DTS conversion of a Sony MDR-DS6500.

    Also Is there an LPCM 5.1 via 6 RCA cable-> either Dolby Headphone or DTS:X Headphone converter. Because separately I can find Dobly/DTS 5.1 toslink -> LPCM 5.1 6 RCA converters. maybe both of those combined will work with a DTS/Dolby Combo.

    Finally, what do I do with my only LPCM 5.1 Movie on a stand-alone Blu Ray Player, Apocalypto? If I'm right, Toslink may carry higher bit rates and hertz rates of LPCM, but never more than 2 channels of LPCM.
  6. Zenvota
    Ah k, that's entirely possible that the sony virtualizer isn't great, I have no experience with it.

    I don't think you can modify an encoded audio track, it has to be decoded to pcm first, then upmixing/downmixing can be applied.

    This is getting ridiculous :wink:

    Correct toslink is limited to lpcm 2.0
  7. SilverEars
    I see some advantages with Xbox One when it comes to what it provides in terms of audio and video. It outputs Dolby Vision streams. The highly acclaimed Nvidia Shield can't even do that (which is the reason I do not need one). I had no idea you can get the Atmos headphone software through Xbox One. Interesting.

    How do you have the headphones hooked up from the Xbox?

    The only reason why I don't use Xbox as UHD Blu Ray player is because there's inaccuracies in how the colors are presented (it's probably not obvious to people unaware of the situation) in the way it converts the colors, and doesn't support Dolby Vision from UHD Blu Ray disks. Interestingly, I can tell some differences in colors of how Philips UHD player outputs vs LG player with my eyes. I can even tell the darkness level differences outputted between the two players.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  8. tripletopper
    Sorry I didn't respond. You just buy and load a $15 app called Dolby Atmos Headphone App. Change a setting in the audio setting to output in Dolby Atmos through the headphone, (these headphones are 3.5 mm standard stereo headhones that plug into the 3.5 mm port of the controller. Any brand will do as long as they adequately cover your ears.) Or you can check "Send out to HDMI/Toslink headphones," and send it out to a Toslink heapdhone. Also if your TV is a stereo TV via HDMI, it will be headphone encoded, yet I was able to slip a mickey of post-decoded Dolby Headphones audio in a 2-track DVD-R standard stereo soundtrack, when I recorded Star Trek Continues online on my Xbox 360. It sounds tight in headphones, and no one noticed it sounded different than a direct 2 track stereo.

    I've got an interesting experiment, If I can post .mp3 files on Head-Fi.org, I can do a "dare to compare" of like a 10 second audio scene of a movie. Luckily I have a movie which is considered a good direcitonally accurate movie, with both a Dolby Atmos and a DTS HD Master 7.1 soundtrack on the same disc. It's the 2D disc of the 3D Northeasten European edition of Ready Player One. (It's an ABC 3D disc) If someone can recommend a good 3D audio scene which showcases back and forth, left and right, and high and low, I can capture that sequence in a lot of different combinaitons. And since it outputs to 3.5 mm headphones, and the headphoen accurately capture the directionalism, assuming you're listening in headphones, I can capture the audio soundscapes. Since I'm posting them for a head-to-head audio comparison and not trying to rip off the move, I assume it's fair use, even though I'm not sure I can capture the corresponding video accurately.

    I was thinking either the first race scene or the battle near the end of the movie are the most "direcitonally active audio" sequences. I'll see if Dobly atmos headphones can decode DTS, or see if WIndows Sonic, or the default DTS-to-Dolby encoder in an Xbox One is better, or even my Turtle Beach X41 Dolby 5.1-> Dolby Headphone decoder. All these possible combinaiotns I could try.
  9. Zenvota
    The only things I'm aware of the can deliver height information to headphones are the smyth realizer, Overwatch, and Ircam Head. But for everything else maybe try the atmos, dts:x or thx demos here: https://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/

    The virtualizers can't decode audio, the player does that.
  10. tripletopper
    Well, I don't know the technical jargon, That's why I'm trying as many variable combinations as possible. I chose the car race scene in Ready Player One for 2 reasons. One: The audio has a lot of directionalism and a lots of trebles basses and mid range sounds to make a fair comparison, and 2, the same movie has both a Dolby Atmos and a DTS HD Master 7.1 soundtrack, so we can hear the differences in the various conversions from DTS to Dolby vs Native Dolby.

    I have the same movie in Dolby and DTS so that can be used to both show the differences between Dolby and DTS and whether these headphone converters treat them differently. So far I tried the Dolby Atmos Headphone audio through the 3.5 mm port of the Xbox One Controller Chat adapter in both Dolby and DTS soundtracks, and I tried using the Xbox's native movie sound coming through the Toslink on the Xbox one piped into a Turtle Beach X41 and using Turtle Beach's Dolby Digital-> Dolby Headphone decoder in both Dolby and DTS soundtracks. So that's 4 tracks so far.

    I don't want to prejudice my findings, but the one thing I thought would make the biggest difference is minor, and found that a different factor determines how directional a soundtrack feels. One way I couldn't hear any wind at the end, but another way, I noticed wind I never heard before. One I heard deeper bases during the explosions, but some might consider it distorted bases. One sounds nitpicky in directions, and the other sounds like MSG for your ears. The sounds were more obviously placed in different directions.

    I still have to test Windows Sonic, and how my Turtle Beaches decodes/lets pass post-decoded sound from Dobly Atmos and Windows Sonic on my Xbox One S.

    By the way, as I was listening, I recorded the differences in a 3 minute scene. The 2 track decoder was able to accurately preserve the playback by using the 3.5mm connector to the audio recording device. The playback sounds exactly the same, and the only way you can get a fair comparison is listenig in headphones. Because a) that's what head-fi.org is all about, and b) all these headphone converters assume you're listening in headphones to get maximum effect. You lose the effect when listening in communal speakers.

    Can I upload mp3 files for you guys to hear? I'll label them a A, B, C, etc, and see what people think before I tell them what is what. And would these .mp3 rrecording be taken down because it violates copyrights, or because I'm using them for strictly audio comparison reasons, would that be considered fair use?

    I don't want to upload them to youtube, because outside the context of this discussion, they would be misunderstood as copyright violations. I guess I can press upload a file here, and use a .mp3. I'll try that after I eat.
  11. Zenvota
    The different virtualizers use different HRTFs, and how those interact with your ears is what makes them sound different, and they're all going to sound different to different people. I remember seeing a graph once of how a single hrtf reacts differently to different people and it could be as much as a 20db swing in a certain part of the frequency response.

    As for differences between dolby truehd and dts hd ma, there shouldnt any as its a lossless encode, and if you dont have a system capable of decoding Atmos it just plays the truehd track.

    There are some pre recorded demos here to similar to what you're doing: https://fongaudio.com/demo/
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  12. tripletopper
    First on a non-gaming machines it makes a world of difference, because Turtle Beach X41s convert Dolby Digtial natively on the disc to Dolby Headphone via Toslink, but is silent when the native media is DTS.

    And I do have the Dolby Atmos Headphone app for Xbox One S, which supposedly takes Atmos audio track, and likely lower Dolby tracks and possibly DTS tracks, on the disc, converts it to Atmos Headphone, and then spits out the 2 track stereo headphone post-decoded output signal through the Toslink, HDMI, and the 3.5 mm hole.

    The biggest complaints I have watching movies on a non-gaming machine is that DTS movies either sound one-dimensional (LPCM L/R) in the Sony headphones, or silent in a Turtle Beach X42 on DTS encoded movies.

    Let me get my first 4 tracks. I assume I can post them here are fair use, since the primary purpose is to tell the differences between different headphone converters, movie encodings and headphone output, and not to tell the story of Read Player One, or claim it's my movie, or anything else that is blatantly a copyright violation if used in a way for profit, and not in a "more academic" sense.

    By the way it might take a few minute. I have only 400 kb/s outbound bandwidth at best, so be patient.
  13. tripletopper
    Somehow, either this site or y computer won't let me upload .mp3 files. Any advice? I prefer not to use Youtube, becuase I have paid content and don't want to mix it. And You tube doesn't do audio .mp3 s > I called Apple, and they said head-fi.org doesn't allow mp3 uploads.

    What gives? This is a headphone audio site, you can upload files, but you can't upload .mp3's Can someone help me solve this? I would prefer not to deal with adding video to an mp3, and dealing with potentially copyright infringing things and ruin my youtube rating.
  14. Zenvota
    I mean... that's not what I mean... lol

    See, while this is entirely possible, I still don't know that the virtualizer is being fed the object data. If it is thats awesome, otherwise same thing, the xbox is decoding the atmos track as 7.1 truehd and sending 7.1 pcm to the atmos headphone virtualizer. I say this becaude typically none of these devices, computers, blu ray players, consoles, can decode atmos, only atmos/dts:x/auro3d enabled AVRs and soundbars can. You could probably test this with any of the atmos demos on the site i posted as I don't have an xbox.
  15. tripletopper
    I don't know whether it is or isn't working directly off the Atmos soundtrack. All you need is a stereo output to output and record a post-decoded Atmos track. I honestly don't know what "order" everything is done in. First does it take the native Atmos soundtrack and headphone-ize it directly, within the Xbox One S, or does it take the 7.1 LPCM tracks the dolby soundtrack gets decoded to and use Dolby Headphones on that? If it's the second, I feel ripped off, because I bought this app to get the best surround sound on my Headphones without having to put up with the hassle of wiring and adjusting a surround sound "box" (don't know what the technical term is) for an asymmetric room where cats roam and like to chew wires and spend thousands of dollars doing it.

    Then there's the second issue of DTS movies using a Dolby Headphone decoder. If it works off the LPCM 7.1 and converts THAT into Dolby Headphones, then that explains why DTS 7.1 and Dolby Atmos sound so close to each other when decoded into headphones using software decoding.

    That's why I'm doing the test. I'm seeing if a pure Head-fi user can get good surround sound without having to buy "middle hardware"

    If I can prejudice the results, the difference between Dolby Atmos and DTS is very slight, if any at all. But the difference between the Turtle Beach's X41 decoder, regardless of whether the source material is Dolby Atmos of DTS 7.1 has more extreme Basses (to the point of distortion) extreme trebles, clearly defined mid ranges, and more violent directional differences than the native Dolby Atmos Headphone Xbox One S app, in either Dolby or DTS source material. The Dolby Atmos seems more "centered" both in range and direction. It's like the Turtle Beach X41 decoder is on sonic MSG. It was designed to accurately pinpoint directions and more subtle sound differences are amplified.

    And frankly, I like the Turtle Beach effect. It may not be realistic, which I might grant, but it gets results in games and makes you feel immersed in movies.

    I could demonstrate it in audio MP3 files, but YouTube requires accompanying video, and an older version of iMovie is picky about the titles either fading in and out or if turned into a still, using a Ken Burns effect when none is desired, and being unable to change 40 scenes at once, and have to do them one at a time. I have only 400 kb/s outbound and need to conserve both computer processing time and bandwidth, and either the constant fade in and out, or the constant pulsating Ken Burns-ing is causing motion, adding processing time and bandwidth to the audio. Give me a little while, and I'll post 4 videos.

    I would prefer posting them here on head-fi.org because it more accurately demonstrates the context of the recording to a Dolby Headphone encoding comparison. If someone can tell me why mp3s don't upload, and how tot fix it, I'd rather have the low, targeted profile of head-fi.org than to the worldwide spotlight of youtube. Common, an audio site with abilities to upload files, but no ability to upload MP3s? Who heard of such a thing? I'm hoping site admin can answer me other why or make MP3s upload.
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