The Hardest hitting Headphones are.. ( "The EXTREME BASS Club")
Dec 20, 2017 at 2:17 PM Post #10,186 of 12,125

OldDude04

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See, the fear that this would be the case is the exact reason I haven't gone ahead and ordered some Kannons. I had the Skullcandy Crusher way back with their battery powered "haptic bass response" and while you can feel the sub bass you heard none of it. Turn off the haptic bass and the driver couldn't play any sub bass notes. The Skullcandy was cheaply made plastic and the Taction Kannon looks much better made, but it would appear they both suffer the same issues. @talan7 is right that they should have used a driver capable of sub bass notes on its own, and then have the bass shaker add in that extra goodness. For now, I'll just keep jamming my JVC SZ2k with a smile on my face and hope that a Kannon 2.0 with improved drivers makes it to the market sometime soon.
 
Dec 20, 2017 at 3:15 PM Post #10,187 of 12,125

Malfunkt

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I agree with Flashmp3. I received my kannons last week and have been trying to find the best configuration. The problem is it depends on the song. I turned off the bass knob and played a bassy song. The driver makes no sub bass at all. They are using the vibration for all sub bass. You end up feeling it but not hearing it. Some songs sound great while others can be overdone or no bass at all. It’s really impressive on some songs though. I would’ve went with a better driver that could play the low bass so when you add the bass shaker (that’s really what it is), it’s more coherent sounding.

Hmm, interesting. I recently tried a SubPac, that was awesome, obviously less portable but it matched well with pretty much anything. Sounded great with the LCD2 that does go all the way down.
 
Dec 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM Post #10,189 of 12,125

Erik Garci

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@talan7 is right that they should have used a driver capable of sub bass notes on its own, and then have the bass shaker add in that extra goodness.
As I understand it, a driver that is more capable at lower frequencies on its own would be less capable at higher frequencies. The Kannon gives you lower frequencies through haptics without degrading higher frequencies.
 
Dec 20, 2017 at 4:30 PM Post #10,190 of 12,125

OldDude04

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As I understand it, a driver that is more capable at lower frequencies on its own would be less capable at higher frequencies. The Kannon gives you lower frequencies through haptics without degrading higher frequencies.

I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. My LCD2 pre fazor and Monolith M1060 reach way down deep in the low end and neither lack in the upper frequencies. I'm just saying that for a $500 pair of headphones aimed at bass lovers, they shouldn't be unable to play sub bass when the haptics aren't on.
 
Dec 20, 2017 at 4:48 PM Post #10,191 of 12,125

Erik Garci

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I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. My LCD2 pre fazor and Monolith M1060 reach way down deep in the low end and neither lack in the upper frequencies. I'm just saying that for a $500 pair of headphones aimed at bass lovers, they shouldn't be unable to play sub bass when the haptics aren't on.
Maybe the Kannon would cost more than $500 if it used the same drivers as those headphones.
 
Dec 20, 2017 at 4:54 PM Post #10,192 of 12,125

OldDude04

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Maybe the Kannon would cost more than $500 if it used the same drivers as those headphones.

Possibly true, although the M1060 is only $300 new. I hope Taction sells a bunch as it will make other headphone companies invest in the technology, I just wouldn't buy them as it stands right now.
 
Dec 21, 2017 at 12:04 AM Post #10,193 of 12,125

TactionJohn

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Hey, folks. We’re working hard straight through the holidays to get caught up on our backlog, but I thought we should respond to the comment earlier in the thread regarding a user’s expectations about Kannon bass response without turning on Taction.

As some folks discussed above -- yes, the frequency response of Kannons without Taction engaged is indeed rolled off. That is an intentional and important design choice. Let me explain why.

Unlike most headphones, but like most loudspeakers, Kannons are designed as a 2-way system. In each earcup, there is a conventional audio driver and a Transporter tactile transducer.

Combining multiple drivers is not a trivial task. Crossovers are arguably the most complex aspect of loudspeaker design. Drivers can interact in complicated ways.

Early development versions of the Kannon did not roll off the audio driver. With Taction off, they sounded like good conventional headphones. With Taction on, there was vastly greater power in the deep bass, of course. But there was also uneven response, interference between the two drivers, and boomy bass (which some folks may have gotten used to and come to like from using other cans with extreme EQ settings applied).

We decided to deliver the most accurate headphones we could make. So just as with multi-driver speakers, we carefully optimized for the combined output with Taction ON. You wouldn't listen to a 2-way speaker with the woofer disconnected, right?
response_curves.jpg

As shown in the attached response curves, the flattest acoustic response comes with Taction ON. For multiple reasons, we gave you the ability to tune the intensity of the base to your taste, to fit the music, etc.

We used a combination of experienced audiophile ears and multi-kilobuck instrumentation to deliver a well-integrated high fidelity experience. It is different from other basshead cans because Kannons can deliver deep powerful bass and high-end sound at the same time. That may take some getting used to. We think that in the long run, most of you will find it more satisfying.
 
Dec 21, 2017 at 11:13 AM Post #10,194 of 12,125

TactionJohn

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First, sorry that you don't seem to be getting the full Taction experience yet. We're happy to help and see if we can resolve your issues.

With Taction switched on and turned up all the way, Kannons give a roughly 20dB boost of deep bass (yes, even below 30Hz) relative to the midrange. That is overkill for the majority of even ardent bassheads. And we do it without adding tons of distortion in the higher frequencies.

There are a couple of possibilities here:

1) A small percentage of the population does not experience tactile bass as sound. In our experience, that applies to fewer than 1 in 10 people, but it is possible that you are one of them. If you are only experiencing the audio driver, you will think they are rolled off.

2) Clamping force may be inadequate for your head. (The JVCs do use relatively high clamping force.) We will be putting up a how-to video shortly to show how you can increase the clamping force without damaging your Kannnons.

3) Are you driving the Kannons directly from a phone? Maybe you just need more power -- Kannons are somewhat inefficient.

4) Something might be wrong with your unit. We'll be happy to get on the phone with you and figure it out.

Regardless, if they don't meet your expectations, we'll take them back and refund your money.

Please feel free to reach out directly at info (at) tactiontechnology dot com.
cleardot.gif




Hi Guys,

I've received my Kannons and i would like to share my impressions about the bass.

Before starting i just want to outline something. From my own experience, i've realized that you don't really know bass until you've heard it. I know it doesn't mean anything pardon my english i'm french. But what i want to say is that i could really hear how bass in music has been evolving compared to what i was listening to 15 years ago.

In late 2017 some songs have wonderful ultra low frequencies bass which are so enjoyable. However the thing is that only few headphones can really produce those frequencies well (it's the same problem with full size speakers). I'm talking especially of the 20hz-30hz range. It's absolutely understandable that people who don't listen to certain songs will never be able to notice their headphones can't reproduce those frequencies well. If you listen to rock music for example i doubt there are many songs that go that low. So you may never notice.
Lots of folks here have been praising the wiz khalifa On my level song. It's nice to test bass indeed. But IMO not good to test extreme subbass. So why am I talking about subbass that much ?
Because i love that but also because it would be hard for me to say some headphones are bassheads when they can't reproduce some bass frequencies well.

Anyway

So I did different tests with the kannons to try to get the best sound quality (from my ears) with the hardware i have. Those test were done with

- Macbook pro 2016 15" + Boom2 equalizer + ibasso D14 DAC/AMP
- HTC 10 + viper4android + ibasso D14 DAC/AMP

This is what i have been using for 1 year with my JVZ SZ2000 kings of bass and being so happy. I have three songs i've been using to test subbass capacity lately :




It took me time to realize that to have the best song for my taste with the kannons i could not only rely on the bass knob. In the beginning i wasn't equalizing. I thought using the bass knob would be enough. But i quickly realize something was wrong. How what i was hearing could be superior to the SZ2000 ? So i started to Eq and repeated my tests. This drove me to two points :

- IMO Kannons are not goot under 30hz.
- The fit make it hard to have a good sound without pressing it on my skull

The tracks linked above contain ultra low bass that are becoming very fashion and used in the last 2017.

In the first track pay attention to when he says "i'm so groovy" the second time. There is an enjoyable deep tone
In the second track, listen do the part between 1.49min and 1.59min.
In the third track the deepest bass tone is present and repeated all over the song


I did multiple tries but the kannons could never give the same monster bass that the SZ2000. I think they re good until 30hz but below i feel a rolloff. I can feel the vibration of the tactile driver but the around 20hz sound just does not have enough power.

Moreover i did try the kannons with brainwavz hm5 thick pad that i was using with my SZ2000 and also bought expensive shure HPAEC1540 to try if it could be better. The problem of the brainwavz is that they place the ear further from the driver so the bass can't be felt correctly. The stock pads and the shure seem not to be so good on the Kannons for me. I have to press the headphones on my ears to feel the bass well. I never had this trouble with the SZ2000. Never had it with my vmoda M100 (stock or XL pads both were great). i tried to increase campling force but it just doesn't sound great without pressing it.

I would like to hear what you think of what i'm saying here. Do you think mine is deffective (not great under 30hz)? If it's not i don't understand how the Kannons could be placed at number 1 basshead. I think the first prerequisite should be to be able to reproduce all the bass frequencies well. I realized that not many songs have what i call the 20hz bass. So it's easy to miss the headphones just can't produce them. I think the wiz khalifa song is not good anymore for testing basshead cans. There are more recent songs that cover more of the bass frequency range.
Hi Guys,

I've received my Kannons and i would like to share my impressions about the bass.

Before starting i just want to outline something. From my own experience, i've realized that you don't really know bass until you've heard it. I know it doesn't mean anything pardon my english i'm french. But what i want to say is that i could really hear how bass in music has been evolving compared to what i was listening to 15 years ago.

In late 2017 some songs have wonderful ultra low frequencies bass which are so enjoyable. However the thing is that only few headphones can really produce those frequencies well (it's the same problem with full size speakers). I'm talking especially of the 20hz-30hz range. It's absolutely understandable that people who don't listen to certain songs will never be able to notice their headphones can't reproduce those frequencies well. If you listen to rock music for example i doubt there are many songs that go that low. So you may never notice.
Lots of folks here have been praising the wiz khalifa On my level song. It's nice to test bass indeed. But IMO not good to test extreme subbass. So why am I talking about subbass that much ?
Because i love that but also because it would be hard for me to say some headphones are bassheads when they can't reproduce some bass frequencies well.

Anyway

So I did different tests with the kannons to try to get the best sound quality (from my ears) with the hardware i have. Those test were done with

- Macbook pro 2016 15" + Boom2 equalizer + ibasso D14 DAC/AMP
- HTC 10 + viper4android + ibasso D14 DAC/AMP

This is what i have been using for 1 year with my JVZ SZ2000 kings of bass and being so happy. I have three songs i've been using to test subbass capacity lately :




It took me time to realize that to have the best song for my taste with the kannons i could not only rely on the bass knob. In the beginning i wasn't equalizing. I thought using the bass knob would be enough. But i quickly realize something was wrong. How what i was hearing could be superior to the SZ2000 ? So i started to Eq and repeated my tests. This drove me to two points :

- IMO Kannons are not goot under 30hz.
- The fit make it hard to have a good sound without pressing it on my skull

The tracks linked above contain ultra low bass that are becoming very fashion and used in the last 2017.

In the first track pay attention to when he says "i'm so groovy" the second time. There is an enjoyable deep tone
In the second track, listen do the part between 1.49min and 1.59min.
In the third track the deepest bass tone is present and repeated all over the song


I did multiple tries but the kannons could never give the same monster bass that the SZ2000. I think they re good until 30hz but below i feel a rolloff. I can feel the vibration of the tactile driver but the around 20hz sound just does not have enough power.

Moreover i did try the kannons with brainwavz hm5 thick pad that i was using with my SZ2000 and also bought expensive shure HPAEC1540 to try if it could be better. The problem of the brainwavz is that they place the ear further from the driver so the bass can't be felt correctly. The stock pads and the shure seem not to be so good on the Kannons for me. I have to press the headphones on my ears to feel the bass well. I never had this trouble with the SZ2000. Never had it with my vmoda M100 (stock or XL pads both were great). i tried to increase campling force but it just doesn't sound great without pressing it.

I would like to hear what you think of what i'm saying here. Do you think mine is deffective (not great under 30hz)? If it's not i don't understand how the Kannons could be placed at number 1 basshead. I think the first prerequisite should be to be able to reproduce all the bass frequencies well. I realized that not many songs have what i call the 20hz bass. So it's easy to miss the headphones just can't produce them. I think the wiz khalifa song is not good anymore for testing basshead cans. There are more recent songs that cover more of the bass frequency range.
 
Dec 21, 2017 at 9:53 PM Post #10,195 of 12,125

flashmp3

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First, sorry that you don't seem to be getting the full Taction experience yet. We're happy to help and see if we can resolve your issues.

With Taction switched on and turned up all the way, Kannons give a roughly 20dB boost of deep bass (yes, even below 30Hz) relative to the midrange. That is overkill for the majority of even ardent bassheads. And we do it without adding tons of distortion in the higher frequencies.

There are a couple of possibilities here:

1) A small percentage of the population does not experience tactile bass as sound. In our experience, that applies to fewer than 1 in 10 people, but it is possible that you are one of them. If you are only experiencing the audio driver, you will think they are rolled off.

2) Clamping force may be inadequate for your head. (The JVCs do use relatively high clamping force.) We will be putting up a how-to video shortly to show how you can increase the clamping force without damaging your Kannnons.

3) Are you driving the Kannons directly from a phone? Maybe you just need more power -- Kannons are somewhat inefficient.

4) Something might be wrong with your unit. We'll be happy to get on the phone with you and figure it out.

Regardless, if they don't meet your expectations, we'll take them back and refund your money.

Please feel free to reach out directly at info (at) tactiontechnology dot com.
cleardot.gif


Hi John,

Firstly I want to thank you for your professionalism! You have been here trying to help us since the beginning and still following our feedbacks! That is so clever and I'm so grateful!

I m using the kannons with bass knobs almost to its maximum. Using ibasso d14 dac/amp with phone and my latest powerful MacBook pro 2016 (with the most powerful hardware). The amp has always allow me to push my jvc sz2000 to extreme sound with extreme bass I can't even bear as it s so loud. I m a fan of subbass. I can feel and hear the bass well over 30hz. But everything under is felt but not heard. It's like a rolloff. I made different basshead friends of mine listen to the kannons and they agreed they couldn't achieve what the sz2000 can do in subbass world. I felt I had to mention that on that thread as it s about the best bassheads cans. And as a bass the lover, again, I can't accept that headphones that cannot play the full range off bass frequencies could be placed above the king of bass sz2000. The minimum to be in this top 10 should be able to play all the bass frequencies well. I don't see the point having an excellent 60hz when the 30hz is weak. I prefer a medium but well played 20hz-60hz instead of an excellent 60hz but weak 30hz. For people listening to rock or edm I think the kannons should be wonderful as they allow the nice bass with clear voice as well. But for new hiphop music where beat makers like me like to play with extreme low tones, I will stick to the sz2000
 
Dec 24, 2017 at 6:52 PM Post #10,196 of 12,125

ALonDonThinG

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What power output is the ibasso d14 dac/amp ?, google says 400mw, your SZ would really like much more power than that.
I went from 800mw to 1500 then 2100 with my SZ1 and SZ2, each step up was amazing for the sub bass with EQ.
I would love to know what sort of power the Kannons can take, im 400 odd in the line so have a long wait to find out for myself.
A lot of the stuff i listen to is from the early 90`s to now, but it all has lots of 20-50hz so im covered with the SZ`s they arnt going anywhere.
I hoping the Kannons will have some other advantages over them, maybe one day there truly will be the perfect "bass head" headphones, i think we are getting closer.
 
Dec 24, 2017 at 8:29 PM Post #10,197 of 12,125

Rayz

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The bassiest (or one of the most bassiest) is definetly the Ultrasone Pro 900.
Full and punch bass, very balanced and alive. can handle a very bass-rich explosions. (< that being said while those are amped well)
Those headphones are the closet to speakers bass.
 
Dec 24, 2017 at 8:38 PM Post #10,198 of 12,125

FastAndClean

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The bassiest (or one of the most bassiest) is definetly the Ultrasone Pro 900.
Full and punch bass, very balanced and alive. can handle a very bass-rich explosions. (< that being said while those are amped well)
Those headphones are the closet to speakers bass.
the treble is really bad on those
 
Dec 27, 2017 at 11:45 AM Post #10,199 of 12,125

talan7

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I seem to have found the sweet spot with the kannons. Also, I think the sound seems to blend in better with the haptics as they break in. My initial impressions were just that, right out the box. The mids and highs are pretty good.
 
Dec 27, 2017 at 3:26 PM Post #10,200 of 12,125

BB 808

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I seem to have found the sweet spot with the kannons. Also, I think the sound seems to blend in better with the haptics as they break in. My initial impressions were just that, right out the box. The mids and highs are pretty good.
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