The FiiO X1 Discussion and Help and Support Thread |192K/24B|100mW | LO | inline remote
Oct 9, 2016 at 1:30 AM Post #7,636 of 7,793
Hello
 
I have a problem with the X1 though and hoped someone here might be able to help. I am cross posting this from the introduction page. 
 
I want to create playlists externally on my X1. I listen mostly to classical music, and I need to put together works, such as symphonies or quartets, from different movements. 
 
I have only realised since getting the X1 that this process is not straightforward, at least not for someone like me who is not great with computers! I use a mac so foobar2000 is not an option. After some searching, it looks like the trick is to create m3u lists and export them to my SD card and, thereby, to my X1. 
 
So, I need a user friendly software. Jaikoz and MediaMonkey seem possibilities (I think there is an OSX version of MediaMonkey?), but I have seen hints that MediaMonkey lists don't work with the X1. The forum on fiio.net points you to foobar and itunes, which is not great as I am ripping to FLAC files which are not supported by itunes. A general web search produces a bewildering array of stuff about m3u which I don't know how to interpret.
 
Can someone here help, please? I love the X1 so far and really want to resolve this so I can enjoy it more. 
 
Thank you.
 
Martin
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 1:56 AM Post #7,637 of 7,793
 estimating loudness when using the fiio X1 and an IEM/headphone.
 
 
it looks scary and way too long because I try to follow a complete reasoning, but it's really one measurement and 2 or 3 simple calculi. at best it's something you will want to do for one or 2 IEMs once, to get an idea of how loud you're going, and that will be it.
 
I used a multimeter into a few loads(and confirmed the smallest values with an ADC and a RTA), there are some small variations but mostly the voltage is pretty stable on that DAP whatever load I plug into it. so I end up giving only one list of measured voltages that I consider precise enough(all things considered) for this particular purpose of guessing if we're ruining our own ears.
 
 here we go, for that example I used a close to 20ohm resistor instead of an IEM, sent a full scale sine wave at different volume settings and measured the voltages:
 
X1 value     voltage rms   loudness
100           1.345 v         + 5 db                
90            0.75 v           + 5 db
80            0.43 v           + 5 db
70            0.24 v           + 5 db
60            0.14 v           + 5 db
50            0.08 v           + 6 db
40            0.04 v           +10 db
30            0.012 v         +10 db
20            0.004 v         +16 db
10            0.0006 v           0 db
 
the loudness column is useless for this exercise, but I added it just in case somebody cares(they're rounded values). if I was at volume 20 and rise it to volume 40 the loudness will go from 20 to 30(+10db) and from 30 to 40(+10db) so 10+10=20db louder than the previous loudness at volume 20. if I push to volume 50 it will go another +6db louder. etc
 
now what to do with all that that crap?
let's take an example, I use my shure se215 on the X1, and while walking down the street full of speeding cars, I end up going as high as 18 sometimes. so let's round this to 20 and read the voltage value I measured on the X1. for the value of 20, that's 0.004v. I keep that somewhere for later.
 
on shure's website you can read:
Sensitivity (1 kHz): 107 dB SPL/mW
Impedance 17 Ω

the sensitivity here is saying that for a 1mw tone of 1khz, you get 107db loud.
let's simply use P=U²/R to get a simple estimated voltage value
1mW that's 0.001W= U² / 17ohm
or U= 0.13V  so for 0.13 volt we could get 107db loud on the se215 at 1khz and I'm using 0.004v from my X1
 
go there http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm  enter 0.13 as "reference voltage V0" and use 0.004(because I listened at volume 20 on the X1) for "measured voltage". it calculates -30.2db
so 107-30.2=76.8db max at 1khz when using the X1 at volume 20 with the se215.  
 
 
to get more accurate, we now need to have a look at the entire frequency response of the IEM, because what we've calculated so far is the loudest possible at 1khz. on my RAW measurement of the SE215(done with Room Eq Wizard and a microphone) I get the loudest around 4.77khz where the signature is 10.8db louder than 1khz.
Tyll seems to measure something close enough, with a peak also concentrated a little below 5khz http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSE215.pdf . on his graph the difference between 1khz and the 5khz peak(grey raw line) seems to come close to 13db I'd say. we can use whatever graph we can find for this, but keep in mind that it's the RAW graph that has meaning for the measured loudness, not the compensated one. here I'll stick to my own measurements as so far all was done based on my own gears and measurements so it just feels more consistent, but Tyll measurements are clearly a great help and I steal them all the time^_^.
so for me,the graph shows that the IEM goes 10.8db louder than the 1khz value, that I add to my previous estimate of 76.8db at 1khz when listening at volume 20 on the X1 with the SE215.
10.8+76.8=87.6db.  
this should be a pretty accurate estimate of the loudest peak signal I can ever get in a song while using my SE215 at volume 20 on my X1. here we can say that while it's still ok, it's also clearly high enough to maybe avoid spending too many hours that way.
 
so now you can do the same using the volume level you're using with your IEM, and the specs you can find for that particular IEM (sensitivity, impedance and if possible, a nice raw frequency response graph).
I won't redo it all a second time, but while typing this, I'm using that very combo in my quiet room in still calm morning, I'm a little below 10 on the X1 with a final estimate of 70db using the previous method. and an actual measured loudness mostly closer to 58db because of replay gain. if I turn it off and play pop music, I indeed come close to 70db peaks sometimes. but around 58db, I could spend the entire day like that and not really fear for my ears. it doesn't mean I won't get any fatigue over time, but temporary fatigue is different from permanent damage. a good night sleep will deal with temporary fatigue.
 
 
to end this, I want to repeat that it's an estimate of the maximum possible peak levels. not perceived loudness and not the actual loudness of a song at all times. aside from boosting the loudest frequency with an EQ, everything else from the gears to the way I estimate things, will tend to actually lower the real loudness compared to what I've calculated. it's a kind of worst case scenario. for example, a song is not all the time at max loudness. it's obvious but that does matter in the long run, and how many calm passages a song will have is also a significant factor over time.
 
 
 
 
PS: if somebody notices a mistake or has a proper(AKA expensive) multimeter for audio signals and finds different voltages into 20ohm, please tell me.
I hope this can help one or 2 courageous people who will read and try it. ^_^
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 4:38 AM Post #7,638 of 7,793
   estimating loudness when using the fiio X1 and an IEM/headphone.
 

Thanks a lot castleofargh, highly interesting and intriguing read.
 
Only one question: some manufacturers use sensitivity in db SPL/mw and some in Vrms. I am using my X1 mostly with the Senns Momentum 2.0 over ear, which are rated as 18 Ω, 113dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms), and have no way to hear anything decent at volume 20, need at least to go to 50. I guess it would be completely different calculation?
 
And also one question to FiiO: are the EU units, let's say sold through FiiO Germany, officially capped to 85db? On German Amazon site, a guy has claimed that they are not software capped, but are battery-voltage limited. An official FiiO statement would be appreciated.
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 9:10 AM Post #7,639 of 7,793
   
Which earphones are you using Deb?
 

ATH M50x & se215 & a bunch of Chinese IEMs. I generally keep the volume level at 65-75 for IEMs and 80-90 for M50x. But after reading this contents, I will maintain a decent level of volume to avoid any damage.Thanks for the help.
smile_phones.gif

 
 
Also, thanks to XRELICX and castleofrage for sharing this information. These are really helpful and it will help a lot of user like me.
beerchug.gif
 
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM Post #7,640 of 7,793
ATH M50x & se215 & a bunch of Chinese IEMs. I generally keep the volume level at 65-75 for IEMs and 80-90 for M50x. But after reading this contents, I will maintain a decent level of volume to avoid any damage.Thanks for the help.:smile_phones:


Also, thanks to XRELICX and [COLOR=000000]castleofrage for sharing this information. These are really helpful and it will help a lot of user like me.[/COLOR] :beerchug: [COLOR=000000] [/COLOR]


I'm using ostry kc06c ( I believe that's correct) and a pair of ultimate ue's that can be found on AliExpress. I know it doesn't take very much to drive the ostry they're very loud right out of the box. A good common ground for the ultimates is between 70 and 85
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 3:56 PM Post #7,641 of 7,793
Either I have super hearing or very low impedance headphones and IEMs.  Just as a reference, I never go any higher than 35 on the volume with my X1/EX1 combo (16 ohm) and it depends on the recording.  No higher than 25 with my X3II and X5II depending on the recording.  Even my 50 ohm SHP9500 only require me to get up to 35 or 40 with any of the DAPs.  I know we are all using different gear, but just wanted to throw this out there.  I've got tinnitus (non music related) and it will come around even at these low volumes.  I don't feel like I'm missing anything listening at these levels.  I switched to IEMs (took a while to get used to them) just so I could turn the volume down. 
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 5:04 PM Post #7,642 of 7,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by DjBobby /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Thanks a lot castleofargh, highly interesting and intriguing read.
 
Only one question: some manufacturers use sensitivity in db SPL/mw and some in Vrms. I am using my X1 mostly with the Senns Momentum 2.0 over ear, which are rated as 18 Ω, 113dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms), and have no way to hear anything decent at volume 20, need at least to go to 50. I guess it would be completely different calculation?
 
And also one question to FiiO: are the EU units, let's say sold through FiiO Germany, officially capped to 85db? On German Amazon site, a guy has claimed that they are not software capped, but are battery-voltage limited. An official FiiO statement would be appreciated.

well guys like sennheiser actually make this easier for us. they give you a loudness in db for 1volt . Vrms is volt "root mean square" and is what almost everybody will use when talking AC voltage around here. it's written only to make it clear that it's not "peak to peak" voltage, and if I wasn't lazy I would have written Vrms all the time also ^_^.
 
anyway, in your case you have those specs 18 Ω, 113dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms) so you don't have to bother with P=U²/R to get a voltage, it's already a loudness to voltage ratio. Senn is telling you that a 1volt 1khz tone will make the momentum 113db loud. so you go http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm  and enter 1 for "reference voltage V0" and if you use the X1 at volume 50, I measured
50            0.08 v 

so you enter 0.08 as "measured voltage V".  the page will give you a gain of about -21.9db
113-21.9= 91.1db  <= this is the maximum loudness you can ever get at 1khz(unless you go and boost 1khz with the EQ^_^). but I insist, the music you play is most likely a good deal lower in reality. this estimates the loudest possible in a given situation with music crushed at 0db all the time on the album. it's a pessimistic view.
 
to get further info you'd need to find a trustworthy raw measurement of that particular headphone to check if other frequencies go a lot higher than 1khz, I didn't see it on innerfidelity maybe it's somewhere else?
 
this time the specs were db per volt, and sometimes you'll get the specs showing mV instead of V you just convert to volts or make sure to use the proper unit on that page http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm as you can pick mV in it if you want(I love that page, it saves so much time when juggling with db).
 
 
  Either I have super hearing or very low impedance headphones and IEMs.  Just as a reference, I never go any higher than 35 on the volume with my X1/EX1 combo (16 ohm) and it depends on the recording.  No higher than 25 with my X3II and X5II depending on the recording.  Even my 50 ohm SHP9500 only require me to get up to 35 or 40 with any of the DAPs.  I know we are all using different gear, but just wanted to throw this out there.  I've got tinnitus (non music related) and it will come around even at these low volumes.  I don't feel like I'm missing anything listening at these levels.  I switched to IEMs (took a while to get used to them) just so I could turn the volume down. 

well something I entirely disregarded here is external noise. some are talking about listening levels in a quiet place where at some point the loudest noises might be the ones your own body is making ^_^. but others are talking about the volume levels they use while commuting, where the external noises can be very loud. so to just hear some music, you need to listen even louder than those already loud noises to cover them a little. that's when it can rapidly become dangerous for our ears. and that's when you might want to check the volume setting on your X1 and estimate if it might be too much.
in such circumstances, one solution is obviously to consciously lower the volume, but sometimes you can't hear anything if you lower the volume. at such times, it might be a good idea to just turn off the music. or to buy a pair of very isolating IEM/headphone. that way you don't have to get too loud to cover external noises because those noises are already significantly attenuated by the IEM. 
I really love the EX1 with some EQ(too much treble for my taste). once EQed to my preferences it's one of my favorite sounding IEM TBH.  but I wouldn't suggest to use the EX1 in a noisy environment because it has very poor isolation. instead when I know I'll find myself in noisy places(train/plane/subway...) I go for Shure or etymotic IEMs because of how well they can isolate. they're not my favorite sounding IEMs, but they really can save my ears from very loud noises. and if even then the external noises are so loud that I would listen at dangerous levels, I just turn off the DAP and keep the IEMs as ear plugs ^_^.
 
Oct 9, 2016 at 8:30 PM Post #7,643 of 7,793
well something I entirely disregarded here is external noise. some are talking about listening levels in a quiet place where at some point the loudest noises might be the ones your own body is making ^_^. but others are talking about the volume levels they use while commuting, where the external noises can be very loud. so to just hear some music, you need to listen even louder than those already loud noises to cover them a little. that's when it can rapidly become dangerous for our ears. and that's when you might want to check the volume setting on your X1 and estimate if it might be too much.
in such circumstances, one solution is obviously to consciously lower the volume, but sometimes you can't hear anything if you lower the volume. at such times, it might be a good idea to just turn off the music. or to buy a pair of very isolating IEM/headphone. that way you don't have to get too loud to cover external noises because those noises are already significantly attenuated by the IEM. 
I really love the EX1 with some EQ(too much treble for my taste). once EQed to my preferences it's one of my favorite sounding IEM TBH.  but I wouldn't suggest to use the EX1 in a noisy environment because it has very poor isolation. instead when I know I'll find myself in noisy places(train/plane/subway...) I go for Shure or etymotic IEMs because of how well they can isolate. they're not my favorite sounding IEMs, but they really can save my ears from very loud noises. and if even then the external noises are so loud that I would listen at dangerous levels, I just turn off the DAP and keep the IEMs as ear plugs ^_^.


I only eq them with the X1. I find they sing without the eq on the X3 and X5.
 
Oct 10, 2016 at 3:16 AM Post #7,644 of 7,793
  well guys like sennheiser actually make this easier for us. they give you a loudness in db for 1volt . Vrms is volt "root mean square" and is what almost everybody will use when talking AC voltage around here. it's written only to make it clear that it's not "peak to peak" voltage, and if I wasn't lazy I would have written Vrms all the time also ^_^.
 
anyway, in your case you have those specs 18 Ω, 113dB (1 kHz/1 Vrms) so you don't have to bother with P=U²/R to get a voltage, it's already a loudness to voltage ratio. Senn is telling you that a 1volt 1khz tone will make the momentum 113db loud. so you go http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm  and enter 1 for "reference voltage V0" and if you use the X1 at volume 50, I measured
so you enter 0.08 as "measured voltage V".  the page will give you a gain of about -21.9db
113-21.9= 91.1db  <= this is the maximum loudness you can ever get at 1khz(unless you go and boost 1khz with the EQ^_^). but I insist, the music you play is most likely a good deal lower in reality. this estimates the loudest possible in a given situation with music crushed at 0db all the time on the album. it's a pessimistic view.
 

Thanks a lot, it quite make a sense now. Listening mostly to classical music with extended dynamic range, going down on the volume level would have sacrificed most of the soft places. Now, thanks to the links you quoted, back to the calculations of my other cans 
smily_headphones1.gif
 
 
Oct 25, 2016 at 10:18 PM Post #7,645 of 7,793
  Hi, Deb1995
Generally, the card you indicated can be compatible with the X1. It is recommended to the popular brand which is used by most of our users like Sandisk.


hey im looking to buy a new fiio product. every user here told me x1 (2nd gen) has problems and I should get 1st gen. are u gonna fix problems with 2nd gen soon or should I get the x1 (1st gen)
also when is x3(3rd gen coming)
 
Oct 25, 2016 at 10:24 PM Post #7,646 of 7,793
 
hey im looking to buy a new fiio product. every user here told me x1 (2nd gen) has problems and I should get 1st gen. are u gonna fix problems with 2nd gen soon or should I get the x1 (1st gen)
also when is x3(3rd gen coming)


They are likely to fix the x1 gen 2 firmware in stages, so it might take several firmware updates over several months to get  it to be acceptable.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 3:17 AM Post #7,648 of 7,793
 
 
They are likely to fix the x1 gen 2 firmware in stages, so it might take several firmware updates over several months to get  it to be acceptable.


do u guys still support x1 (1stgen) like with firmware updates? or its done?

Hi, Adgj533
The final firmware of X1 has been released for some time. If there is no big bugs with the firmware, it may not be more update. It is recommended to have a try in the local store in order to choose the suitable player you prefer.
 
FiiO Stay updated on FiiO at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO https://twitter.com/FiiO_official https://www.instagram.com/fiioofficial/ https://www.fiio.com support@fiio.com
Oct 26, 2016 at 1:35 PM Post #7,649 of 7,793
The last update disabled the functionality of in-line headphone controller.
It used to work properly.
Tried several.
Anything I can do?
Tried disabling and re-enabling it back. 
 
X1 FW 1.6
SN: 60030077091002
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 1:57 PM Post #7,650 of 7,793
  The last update disabled the functionality of in-line headphone controller.
It used to work properly.
Tried several.
Anything I can do?
Tried disabling and re-enabling it back. 
 
X1 FW 1.6
SN: 60030077091002

 
The latest firmware for the X1 (1st gen) is 2.0.
 
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=39932&extra=page%3D1
 

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