The discovery thread!

[raibeli]

I doubt "burn in" actually changes the actual drivers. What stops them from "going bad" after another couple hundred hours of play?

More likely it's how the brain perceives what the ears are picking up at that given moment. And there are a lot of things that can affect it (sleep, food, Monday vs Friday etc.)

Of course confirmation bias is very real too.

 

[freelancr]

Ziigaat Doscinco IEM Review & Sound Demo: An Isobaric Revelation



Before anyone asks, yes the review speech is ai generated there are some funny pronounciations. Review text is my own.
Creating videos is so damn time consuming and this is only a hobby for me. So with that out of the way, Enjoy!

 

[flre]

Well, I do agree that there could be other forces at work here, and sure the IEM interpretation process is totally individualistic. Funny that the GK10S rears its head to be under the same controversy as the original Geek Wold GK10. The 7mm DD midrange driver seemed to change and if placebo for me, sure I will accept that. Except my first impressions were very different from what the GK10 turned out to be in the end, maybe more, really more than most IEMs I encounter? They (the IEMs) all can’t be well received by everyone. Cheers!

Anyways, it may be unit variation/QC? I know the original GK10 had some complaints about different batches sounding different? FWIW, I have perfect channel balance on both sides of the GK10S on my graphing rig, so at least we know the set I have has an intended tuning. QC lottery is always something to keep in mind for CHIFI.

Well, thought I could keep on lurking here forever But I feel I want to chime in because I had an odd experience with Geekwold myself recently. Got the GK20 after reading a couple of impressions and was at first a little irritated how different they sounded from what I expected judging by the reviews and available graphs. Anyway, here's mine (cannot attach images yet):
Frequency response

Bottom line is: It sounds like a mixture of Ziigaat Cinno and ZS10 Pro X, both of which I own. And that's not bad, as I like both . It's a fun sounding kind of W shaped set with beautiful shells. However, it's starkly different from what I expected.
In case you wonder: Both channels look the same. And yeah, I don't have professional measurement equipment, but I get extremely repeatable results within a << 0.5 dB margin when repositioning an earpiece. Usually I have to apply some very soft high shelf to roughly compare with IEC coupler results, but that doesn't in the least affect the dips at ~1.5 and 5 kHz, which I can clearly hear as well.

Just wanted to leave that here. If that is a kind of variation that frequently occurs with Geekwold sets, I'm not surprised the least bit that opinions differ strongly

 

[fidgeraldo]

dips at ~1.5 and 5 kHz

Huh, we are so different; I listen to this instead

I leave db and kHz to others
And still, after having a pretty nice collection of headphones...I never had any issues, not a single one
When you dip into db and KHz...oh, man, there starts trouble

I can relax and enjoy the music

Cheers!

 

[DagsJT]

Ziigaat Doscinco IEM Review & Sound Demo: An Isobaric Revelation



Before anyone asks, yes the review speech is ai generated there are some funny pronounciations. Review text is my own.
Creating videos is so damn time consuming and this is only a hobby for me. So with that out of the way, Enjoy!

I saw your posts about this on HiFiGuides and it had me intrigued. If I hadn’t just bought the TSMR X then I think I’d be seriously considering this as I do love some bass.

 

[flre]

Huh, we are so different; I listen to this instead

Not as different as you might think the „scientific“ side merely gave me enough insight to understand what to watch out for before buying and is a great tool for me to judge what a will probably like in a set and what not. Without being able to audition myself before buying that is. Ultimately, I enjoy many different tunings for enjoying exactly what you posted from as many different perspectives as possible
But that aside, I was mostly going technical to make a point about the differences apparent with the GK20‘s output in different samples. After all, it was not bad luck, but gives me one perspective more

 

[fidgeraldo]

„scientific“

That's quite the opposite of the artistic side
Are you sure that you understand and I don't?


Dude...I was kidding...you are new here, and this is a hot welcome

Cheers!

 

[nikbr]

Came back to Venture Electronics SiE a.k.a. the lushest of lush after a good while and decided to do some tip swapping. It came to a halt very rapidly right after I tried the Coreir.

It looks as if it barely hangs onto the nozzle, but it is very secure. Azla Xelastec were the ones I used before to aid with SiE's less than perfect fit for my ears due to a stubby nozzle. They did their job thanks to their sticky material. Coreir, though, goes about it in a very mechanical fashion. The brass inserts essentially lengthen the nozzles and now SiE fits wonderfully.

Joy of listening is still here too. It remains a bassy and enveloping listen that manages to sound the most speaker-like from my collection, but as an added bonus Coreir lent a helping hand to SiE in its otherwise not-so-good technicalities. Great success!

 

[fidgeraldo]

Came back to Venture Electronics SiE

 

[flre]

That's quite the opposite of the artistic side
Are you sure that you understand and I don't?


Dude...I was kidding...you are new here, and this is a hot welcome

Cheers!

Right Thanks for the welcome and having me here

 

[ticoss]

I'm not sure that's an acceptable reason though is it. Imagine buying a TV and being told the picture is substandard until you've watched it for 200hours. I think its fair to say you'd expect it to be working at the intended ability as soon as you unbox it and set it up. Just my opinion ofc.

Well.. you know, with Oled TV you have to wait several time before calibrate them (something like 100 hours)

 

[cobrabucket]

Came back to Venture Electronics SiE a.k.a. the lushest of lush after a good while and decided to do some tip swapping. It came to a halt very rapidly right after I tried the Coreir.

It looks as if it barely hangs onto the nozzle, but it is very secure. Azla Xelastec were the ones I used before to aid with SiE's less than perfect fit for my ears due to a stubby nozzle. They did their job thanks to their sticky material. Coreir, though, goes about it in a very mechanical fashion. The brass inserts essentially lengthen the nozzles and now SiE fits wonderfully.

Joy of listening is still here too. It remains a bassy and enveloping listen that manages to sound the most speaker-like from my collection, but as an added bonus Coreir lent a helping hand to SiE in its otherwise not-so-good technicalities. Great success!

Love the SiE! As you said, so very lush...
I will have to try them with the Corier tips.

And that last line of your post, I can't help but imagine that being said in the accent of Borat.

 

[holsen]

Love the SiE! As you said, so very lush...
I will have to try them with the Corier tips.

And that last line of your post, I can't help but imagine that being said in the accent of Borat.

2nd time I head about these Corier tips today, I guess I better pick up a set and check them out. I just got the Divinus Velvet tips yesterday and they have unseated the Azla Crystals on a couple of IEMs. Theyre outstanding.

 

[nikbr]

Reached out to Symphonium if they want to send over a pair, I'll redo it full style review on the Meteor if so, after reading Dom (excellent review ) I want go give it another go. Another ting I do want to perhaps buy the Crimson this spring, need to save some cash first if so.

Either the unit of Meteor I was testing from my friend @Erkil was a lemon, or we talk about seal problems fu__ing up.

No IEM I have heard other than Meteor been so veiled, it was like listening to music playing in another room. Tbh wouldn't make sense to make it like this, only explanation is that something is wrong.

Our hero has a new profile pic! Looking sharp with AüR Aure (?)
Hopefully you get something arranged with Symphonium!

I still haven’t listened to a single one of my IEMs, they’re all burning in still. Might listen to them once I’m an old man myself and I understand the magic.

Not a bad tactic. With quite a few IEM-flavour-of-the-month's it stands true that The more deaf you get, the better they sound.

How strange peoples beliefs. 50% 'believe' this, 50% 'believe' that, 50% believe this and that and then control 50% for believing this or that or kill 50% for believing this or that. 50% believe everything we believe in is a placebo. 50% believe everything is as they believe. Just listening and getting some peace and enjoyment is a good antidote to the 'belief' insanity.

I count 350%. Quite a crowded world you live in

Love the SiE! As you said, so very lush...
I will have to try them with the Corier tips.

And that last line of your post, I can't help but imagine that being said in the accent of Borat.

Oh they are wonderful. One of my earliest purchases soon after joining the hobby, thanks to @Deadstorm suggestion, and it's not going anywhere, no matter what other IEMs join the collection.

YES! I knew someone would notice that haha. Sasha Baron Cohen really made certain lines his own.

 

[metafour]

The things we do for this hobby. I mean my hobby would be a % easer if I didn’t burn-in. And the thing is that I get confirmation (perception wise) that it works with almost every IEM. Some a little and some a lot. I think the manufacturers that recommend it don’t simply have the time or energy? Woo Audio asks for 200 (I forget) maybe 300 hours till there 300b Woo Audio 5LE tube amp sounds as it should. I just don’t see them burning in a whole room full of tube amps all the time. And yes, IMR has wicked long times suggested. Most of the time I feel 75 -100 hours works for most products, yet then there are always the long ones, those are typically DD drivers. We often do seven full days just to be certain. But electrical equipment changes too, my Sony TA-ZH1ES got way smoother after 200 hours? But in fact I would love it if it was not true, that would save me so much trouble.

I'm sorry, but "burn-in" is placebo nonsense that isn't provable at all.

Why don't you take a listen to the actual R&D Manager at 64 Audio as he recently commented about this topic in this video (at 7:41). He has every reason to give some crap answer ("oh just listen to our IEMs for 500 hours then you'll see they sound amazing!") but instead he flat out says that the first 5-15 seconds of listening is the best judgement you will have. And this is a guy on the engineering team who actually knows how the drivers work. Listen to the part where he talks about how what you ate can literally affect the sound you hear - now how do you know that your IEM drivers didn't actually "burn in", but instead you are comparing the sound under two periods wherein your literal ear-drum physiology is different?

For those of you who think you can actually hear the drivers "loosening up", "becoming more cohesive", or whatever else: convince me that you're not just priming your brain to EXPECT to hear a difference. It's not complicated: if you convince yourself that the IEM's will "sound better" over time, then you are priming your brain for an expected result. When your brain expects an outcome, it tends to magically "find it". There are so many examples of this very same phenomenon that have been proven in multiple arenas. For example, when MSG became a hot-topic discussion as a flavouring ingredient in food there was an inaccurate initial study which suggested that it would make you feel bad if ingested. Once that "study" caught on among the public, magically everyone and their grandmothers proclaimed that eating food with MSG added was giving them headaches, etc, etc. The guy who initially did the study came back years later and redacted it - his conclusion wasn't even accurate. But yet, because people so thoroughly believed that MSG would make them feel bad in some way, they convinced themselves that eating Chinese takeout was giving them headaches. This myth is actually still active - there are people still convinced that they feel some unexplained ill effects after eating even mild amounts of MSG.

These phenomenons are well studied. Just like when they give someone who has some unexplained ailment a sugar pill but tell them its some magic new medication, and the subject all of a sudden doesn't feel whatever ailment they were complaining about.

The reality is that everyone wants to justify the IEM that they potentially spent hundreds or even thousands of dollars on. "Oh when I first put them in I felt they were pretty good, but then after 100 hours of burn in they became amazing!". "Oh they're pretty good with the stock cable, but this $400 cable (which is just transmitting data lmao) made everything about them better!". Nah dawg, you're just coping. It's pure cope to believe that the tiny drivers in IEM's need hundreds to hours of operation to start working as they should.

After-market cables are the equivalent of thinking that slapping on a $20,000 body-kit on a Honda Civic is going to all of a sudden improve its acceleration.