The discovery thread!
Dec 5, 2021 at 11:33 AM Post #61,096 of 61,574

holsen

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Not to defend Hiby, or any brand, yet this is actually a common problem with LiPo batteries, and can happen with just ANY brand :)

It's just that, well, better brands tend to source better batteries, which will have less chance of doing this :)

From my own experience, I got swollen batteries from just any brands, Samsung, LG, Xiaomi, Sony, etc. It's not a big deal, like this fellow said:
Yep, Here's a useless Microsoft Surface Balloon
IMG_20211205_081604.jpg
 
Dec 5, 2021 at 11:37 PM Post #61,098 of 61,574

baskingshark

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Both swell up if treated poorly. In truth the LiPo is far more prone to swelling than any Li-Ion. The reason why a lot of people think Li-Ion is more prone to swelling is because the Li-Ion used to be far more common than LiPo in everyday applications. There are a variety of reasons for this.

Li-Ion
Lithium-Ion is cheaper, has a slightly higher capacity and almost always comes in cylindrical cells. They occasionally come in a more rectangular package but this is just many small cells put together in parallel. This is common in older phones and cameras. They are also common in power banks and for example the Xbox controller rechargeable battery packs also use these cells.

LiPo
Lithium Polymer or Lithium-Ion Polymer if we're being technically correct, is a improved version of the Li-Ion battery. Usually comes in silver packets and due to using a polymer in it's construction these are semi flexible. Although technically having a higher energy density, the capacity is lower than Li-Ion but it delivers higher power in return. It can be charged faster (depending on construction) and drained faster but this does have some risks and is not necessary in a lot of applications. It's lighter that Li-Ion and the flat square/rectangular shape makes it a lot easier to work with than the Li-Ion cylinders.

Yes a lot of LiPo batteries in tablets and phones are mislabeled as Li-Ion in the specs. If is's even a little flexible it can only be a LiPo.
Laptop Li-Ion battery packs are genuine Li-Ion which is obvious when you (carefully) open them and see the cells.


In the RC world the LiPo is far more common as the light weight + high power output is ideal for us. We don't care for run time that much. But make no mistake these are far more powerful than the LiPo's that ever will be in a smart phone and the require various safety precautions like a fire resistant LiPo bag to even be able to charge them anywhere but your own home. And even then I would still recommend using those precautions, the're there for a reason.

Lithium is a volatile metal that hates just about any other metal and responds by catching fire. Which can not be put out easily as this is a chemical fire. This is also the reason why I don't get why a LiFe battery is safer than LiPo as Fe or ferrum, more commonly known as iron, does not play well with Lithium.

Being off-topic, polymer in Li-polymer is in electrolyte, not any packaging (that what perhaps creates most of the common misconceptions), and that is just more advanced (and a bit safer) new generation in the development of Li-ion batteries. Li-polymer battery technology can be used in solid cells or in more flexible packaging - can be hard to distinguish even upon disassembly.

Thanks for the info.

Just for general knowledge, for our Amps/DAPs that use Li-Ion or LiPo, for the purposes of prolonging battery life, what do you guys recommend?

Like avoid fast charging? Charge and top up whenever possible? Or wait till it fully depletes? Don't charge to 100%?
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:32 AM Post #61,099 of 61,574

kmmbd

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Received the Tin T3 Plus and they have a pretty graph. The design and build is solid as well. Can't say much about how it sounds since I've just started listening to them. However, I believe that this is the bassiest Tin Hifi IEM till date.

Will post a comparison vs Aria soon.

img_2_1638779366437.jpg
img_1_1638779357445.jpg
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:49 AM Post #61,100 of 61,574

SHOOTINGTECHIE

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Thanks for the info.

Just for general knowledge, for our Amps/DAPs that use Li-Ion or LiPo, for the purposes of prolonging battery life, what do you guys recommend?

Like avoid fast charging? Charge and top up whenever possible? Or wait till it fully depletes? Don't charge to 100%?
For me its acubattery pro app and charge with PC mostly (not fast charging but do use it when i am in a hurry ) and charge it between 20%-80% as advised by @Andykong for the Cayin N6ii, (sometimes i do miss and i charge it from zero but never go for full charge atleast after I came to know how to charge in the cayin thread)
I do the same with my phone too 😁
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 4:02 AM Post #61,102 of 61,574

redguardsoldier

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Thanks for the info.

Just for general knowledge, for our Amps/DAPs that use Li-Ion or LiPo, for the purposes of prolonging battery life, what do you guys recommend?

Like avoid fast charging? Charge and top up whenever possible? Or wait till it fully depletes? Don't charge to 100%?

Avoid fast charging --> SURE!
Charge and top up whenever possible --> Ew, please don't do that, the batteries don't like being 100% full all the time (that's why Sony's DAPs have the option to never charge above 90%)
Or wait till it fully depletes --> EWWW, even worse than keeping them topped up at 100%
Don't charge to 100% --> What Sony is doing, but in reality, from time to time, you need to charge fully to refresh the batteries. And this is very inconvenient if the device doesn't natively support.

More info about Lithium batteries (or other types of batteries) --> https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

For me, here are what I do with my devices:
  • Use them normally, don't quickly discharge them (playing games / streaming on mobile data / etc.)
  • Keep them cool, avoid hot places like tables with direct sunlight
  • Never use quick charge, even stock quick chargers
  • Never let the batteries fall to 0% (except from time to time to refresh them)
Well, that's just for me :) After all, it's your device, do as you wish :)
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 7:16 AM Post #61,103 of 61,574

Dobrescu George

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A new week starts, and I hope you received some awesome presents from Saint Nicholas! Christmas is coming soon as well, so I prepared a review that should prep you up for it, on one of the most raved about IEMS in the entire world, the 7Hz Timeless from Linsoul Audio!!

I really like the sub-bass, strong treble, and good soundstage! The detail is incredibly good too, and if you're looking for comfort, they are comfortable, despite the awkward coin-like outer design. I invite you to read more about comparisons, pairings, and other personal observations about the Timeless Planar Magnetic IEM!!

I also updated the Hall Of Fame page of Audiophile-Heaven, as well as every sub category page, so all new products will be included in the top list, and navigation should be even better on my webby :)

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/12/7hz-timeless-planar-iems-linsouls-ace-card.html

7Hz-Timeless-Planar-Magnetic-IEMs-Earphones-IEM-Review-Audiophile-Heaven-Linsoul-20.jpg
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 7:39 AM Post #61,104 of 61,574

FlacFan

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Thanks for the info.

Just for general knowledge, for our Amps/DAPs that use Li-Ion or LiPo, for the purposes of prolonging battery life, what do you guys recommend?

Like avoid fast charging? Charge and top up whenever possible? Or wait till it fully depletes? Don't charge to 100%?
There is no general rule about it, really. Because, it all depends on how the manufacturer of that device implemented the charging procedure and most importantly the voltage cut off. Typically for a LiPo single cell: Never below 3.5V and never above 4.2V. Things get dicey if multiple cells are used (parallel to increase capacity - in series to increase voltage). Here a so called balanced charger is a must have. That said, except for my RC charger I have never seen a consumer product with a balanced port for charging. Maybe the balancing is done within the product (cell phone, tablet, laptop, whatever) and maybe not. Laptops catching fire or batteries swelling in amps, cell phones etc indicate a total failure (or absence) of that security measure.

The best advice would be:
1. Use the charger the device came with
2. Do not charge the device unattended (meaning have it in eyesight)
3. Have a bucket of sand somewhere ( I am serious - this is the only way to put out a Li based battery fire. )

Cheers.
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 8:08 AM Post #61,105 of 61,574

RCracer777

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Thanks for the info.

Just for general knowledge, for our Amps/DAPs that use Li-Ion or LiPo, for the purposes of prolonging battery life, what do you guys recommend?

Like avoid fast charging? Charge and top up whenever possible? Or wait till it fully depletes? Don't charge to 100%?
I agree with what @redguardsoldier said but I'm going to add a few things here an there.

Some quick tech stuff important to my explaination;
Li-Ion: min 2.4V, nominal 3.7V, max 4.2V. Max discharge rate 1~5C (dependent on the construction of the battery, C = capacity)
LiPo: min 3.0V, nominal 3.7V, max 4.2V. Max discharge rate 5~200C (dependent on the construction of the battery, 100C+ only with pulse discharge)
Normal phone, tablet and DAP discharge rate is <0.20C under normal use.

Fast charging
Li-Ion and LiPo can only safely be charged at a max of 1C or 1x capacity. This does in theory mean that you can charge these batteries in 1 hour but in practice this is 1 hour 15 minutes as the last 5~10% has to be done at a significantly slower rate. Fast charging (anything over 10W) can be done without damaging the battery if you keep to this rule. Even if a charger is rated at say 24W this doesn't mean the device will charge at 24W, the device regulates itself and only takes what it needs.

To make this easy when you can and can't fast charge:
1C charge [W] = nominal voltage [V] x battery capacity [A] (mAh/1000)
So a 5000 mAh battery in should be charged with a max of 3.7x(5000/1000)=18.5W. This isn't that much as these days fast chargers are already at 120W.
FYI battery capacity for 1C charge at 10W is (10/3.7)x1000=2703 mAh. If you're below this you should never ever use a fast charger.

Balanced charging is also a thing but this only needs to be done when a battery consists of more than 1 cell. Phones and DAP's only use 1 cell but some tablets and all Laptops use multiple cells either in parallel for more capacity or series for a higher voltage (laptop). This should be handled by the device itself if the batteries are charged internally.

Topping up whenever possible
Can be done in a pinch but should never be done regularly. Always let the battery go down until at least 70% charge before charging again.
Batteries don't like to be topped up all the time.

Fully depleting the battery
Don't do this. This is when the battery gets unstable. Any LiPo should never be discharged under 3.2V per cell and Li-Ion never under 3.0V. I usually set my own safety cut of at 3.5V per cell in RC stuff. In modern phones, tablets and DAP's the 0% battery should be set at >3.3V by the manufacturer but this is not always the case so it's good to never let it deplete past 10~15%. I normally charge when they go under 30% just to be sure.

Charging to 100%
Has to be done every once in a while to keep them in shape but the should be depleted to 90% over the next 24 hours to be safe.
Technically the you can keep a LiPo at 100% for a little over a week without problems or lasting effects but it's advised not to do so.

Storage
Often overlooked but important. Any Li-Ion or LiPo battery that is not used for more than 2 weeks should be given a storage charge. This means the voltage of the cell should be between 3.6V and 3.9V or 45% to 60% charge. With RC batteries this is easy as our charger can do this for us, but with other stuff you've got to do this yourself.
Both Li-Ion and LiPo batteries lose capacity when they are not in use for extended period of time but having them on a storage charge reduces this by 80% for Li-Ion and 90%+ for LiPo. This is at room temperate, high temperatures (40 °C+) will always degrade the battery at a considerable rate.
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 8:43 AM Post #61,106 of 61,574

holsen

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how the hell you manage to open surface without breaking the screen?
Patience. Much patience, and a heat gun and plastic gift cards and more patience than I knew I had!
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 10:46 AM Post #61,107 of 61,574

InvisibleInk

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Patience. Much patience, and a heat gun and plastic gift cards and more patience than I knew I had!
Did you replace the battery or anything else while you had it open?
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 11:24 AM Post #61,108 of 61,574

RikudouGoku

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Dec 6, 2021 at 11:40 AM Post #61,109 of 61,574

InvisibleInk

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Instead of sending out review units to shillers

Reading this, I wonder if someone can come up with a ranking list of reviewers, with most honest and knowledgeable at the top, and most shilling and otherwise corrupt at the bottom.
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 12:12 PM Post #61,110 of 61,574

FlacFan

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Reading this, I wonder if someone can come up with a ranking list of reviewers, with most honest and knowledgeable at the top, and most shilling and otherwise corrupt at the bottom.
Intriguing idea. However, who is going to review those reviewers? Another reviewer I suppose...I guess, you know where I am going with this, right? :smile_phones:

Cheers
 

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