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The discovery thread!

  1. crabdog
    That looks as though it might sound pretty good. My main concern would be how they deal with phasing with so many drivers. Any mention of how many crossovers there are?
  2. Wiljen
    Be interesting to see what the FR would look like with 1/2 as many of those BAs in there. I'm guessing not very much different.
    darmanastartes and paulindss like this.
  3. Zerohour88
    I was actually hoping for a combination of both when chi-fi started being posted here. While chinese stuff are usually really great value, western stuff are sometimes still ahead in terms of pure resolution/performance. A comparison of both in relative to actual performance would be helpful

    unfortunately I don't think any new western brands can crop up easily due to how competitive it is now, especially with the sheer production might of china. ADV not getting that GT-R fundraising successful still stings me (rather than IEMs, I really want a new headphone)
    Lurk650 likes this.
  4. Otto Motor
    It is a bit like published science: you get the most reliable results and the most complete picture by looking at the broad body of work, not a single article. This helps filtering out the bad apples (should there be any). There is always a thin line between rational (mostly text and technical data) and emotions (mostly illustrations) for the reader. An imbalance may lead to impulse buying and possibly buyers remorse later on.

    As to diminishing returns, I try to define my sweet spots and stick to them: the reasonably-priced "end-game" equipment. I haven't figured out yet whether expensive stuff provides more pleasure. I once read that three $100 headphones are better than one $300 headphone. Cheap equipment has a great advantage: the pain is smaller should it stop functioning or get lost on the bus.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    mbwilson111, HungryPanda and trellus like this.
  5. papa_mia
    Well, I'm not sure about this. Each of the $100 phones might have some good aspects to them like this one has a very good rumble bass, the other has a very sweet vocals etc... But together they all seem to lack the refinement that the $300 has (most of the cases in my limited experience).
    Point is, after spending some time (and money) on the cheaper stuff, you know what you want and you've formed a pretty good ideas about what people are talking about in their impressions or reviews, you should save up and go up (within your budget of course).
    Otto Motor likes this.
  6. reiserFS
    Didn't know, sorry about that. Is there a story behind this?
  7. FastAndClean
    The story is banned, remove the question from your post
  8. reiserFS
  9. Lurk650
    Toastybob likes this.
  10. audiohurric4ne
    waiting patienly for a comparisson between bgvp dm6, whizzer A-he03 and oriolus finshci. anyone have all 3 ?
    emeline, zepmaj and paulindss like this.
  11. Redcarmoose
    Probibly my first Head-Fi “Hype” IEM was the HiFiMan RE0 back in 09. I have to say I’m susceptible to reading endless posts about some special IEM value. But......there have been a bunch of purchases which I’m glad I didn’t jump on. It maybe has always been the same, but to me the last two years have been intense with expensive IEMs coming into and falling away from the limelight very quickly. It seems some IEMs can go out of fashion fast; making room for the next thing. Common sense says that there is no way each of these manufacturers can technologically leap-frog over each other every 90 days to win with some current famous model? And it seems to take the group census to air the dirty laundry about some lacking drawback of an IEM; which was 30 days ago the second coming of Christ. So even though it’s fun to be the first person on the block with the new IEM, it seems the group opinion is real and can even be more clear showing what we may have missed on a listening demo. Not only is there Head-Fi hype, there is personal hype, where your emotions can get in the way of common sense with a purchase. We are all guilty of this to a point. The fact is there is an enormous amount of qualified IEMs already invented. There is no such thing as perfect. Guitars are the same in a way. There are bad quality guitars and nice performing guitars, but there are no perfect guitars, only application of a guitar in a perfect way.

    The only thing that keeps stuff moving is that stuff IS getting better in sound quality. Also mid-fi now sounds like what summit-fi was 9 years ago. And..... of course due to the economy of scale in China, they can mass produce some really strong value pieces.

    Many folks have a favorite IEM from 2012 or 2014. And if they like the ability and tone all is well. I’m pretty sure it’s all about getting the right tone. But that could be just me. Obviously some pretty detailed IEMs have surfaced the last two years, and for those into amazing detail they are better than any IEM ever made.

    I haven’t figured out if expensive is better or not. At times it’s better, but there is nothing wrong with getting into value gear and enjoying it. The main thing to remember is we are all getting more experienced all the time. And...........there are many different types of folks here. Some have TOTL gear and use what they feel is the “correct” reproduction to judge everything else. They do hear where the response deficiency is in comparison to this absolute they have remembered in their minds. I have had experience with this type of person at shows and such. I don’t judge them, even if they thought my set-up at the meet was not perfect. Reason being............I do the same in a smaller way when I hear a set-up that doesn’t have the sound I’m looking for. I don’t think equipment has to be perfect to be enjoyable. It just has to have the sound your looking for, and be lacking the response personality you don’t like.

    But everything IS moving along. One way to judge the movement is to keep favorite IEMs or headphones that you used to love. After four years you dust them off and hear how far everything has come. That or maybe for some their tastes have changed.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
    Otto Motor, a3ther and HungryPanda like this.
  12. kova4a
    Well, that's only half true, because the price range of the current mid-fi gear occupies the range where the summit-fi was 10 years ago. Also, now the price disparity between the different segments is greater than ever. What used to be something like: entry-level at sub-$50, lower mid-fi at $50-150, upper mid-fi at $150-250 and TOTL at $250-500 has turned into something like: entry-level at sub-$100, lower mid-fi at $100-400, upper mid-fi at $400-800, lower high-end at $800-1200 and TOTL at $1200-5000.

    As someone who has heard a lot of the TOTL gear from before - sennheiser ie8, shure se535, etymotic er4s, westone 4, ath ck10, etc. I can only half agree with the statement that the mid-fi iems of today sound better than all of the top-tier iems of yesteryear. It's definitely not just the tone - detail monsters like the ety er4s and the ath ck10 (and most TWFK-based iems of before) are still detail monsters. Yeah, with the evolution of hybrid designs and BA drivers some of the newer iems might have better low-end or bigger soundstage, better layering, etc. on top of the good details, for instance like the flc8 introduced a marriage between a TWFK and a dynamic driver for the bass.

    For me the chi-fi divers used in most of the mid-fi stuff nowadays still can't touch a single TWFK in performance and that's the issue - now we have manufacturers using 6,8,10... 42 drivers trying to win the numbers game while in reality there are far superior 2-3 driver iems out there. In fact, I still stand by my opinion that the closest to an upgrade to something with a TWFK like a brainwavz b2 or ath c10 I've heard is the Noble 4 (now Savanna) and that's a $500 iem, so I wouldn't go as far as saying that all of the current mid-fi stuff (if we're talking $100-250 iems) is better than the old flagships. Some of them are, but mainly because even back there there was stuff like the sennheiser and shure products trying to pass for flagships and being way too overpriced for what they were. With, that said, we do have more versatile iems now and we can get something with good details and good bass for less money - it might not excel in detail retrieval as an ety er4s, but it will have better low-end and pretty good details for cheaper.

    The main segment that has really changed is the entry level. Before, there wasn't much choice and there weren't many good sub-$50 iems, but with the progress of chi-fi now we have cheap stuff that is blurring the line between entry- and mid-fi. Also, due to the insane competition more expensive top performers in the mid-fi range of yesterday like gr07, re400, dunu titan 1, etc. can be found at half (and even less) of what they used to sell for.

    The times are surely crazy, but I urge people to try to not jump on every hype train and if possible to wait for someone with more experience to chime in before jumping on. It just seems that there are way too many people who don't have proper point of reference when they are recommending the new giantslaying stuff and then a month later comes along the yet another giant slayer and the cycle continues. This advice is especially aimed at people who don't have spare money to burn for monthly experiments. If you only have $50, $100 or whatever amount of money to buy a new product and don't intend to spend such an amount on monthly or even weekly basis, then do your research and get something tried and proven rather than being swayed by the current hype train, which will never return once leaving the station.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  13. papa_mia
  14. crabdog
  15. kova4a
    You got me. That's professional deformation from being a lawyer. You are lucky there aren't any judges here coz I rarely see any judgments and rulings with sentences shorter than 10 lines or any punctuation for that matter.

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