While I've never heard the MK2, I have the Sony MDR-Z7 and MDR-Z1R. I just did kind of a comparison of the two recently and discovered a lot. Mainly that the original Z7 has a lower bass region that is not as textured as the Z1R. Also not as clear down there, pace missing. Obviously I'm comparing a open box $350 pair of Sony Z7 headphone to the MDR-Z1R $2200. Still I always thought the Z7 was better, even after using it a long time?
I have to say, I never heard the 1st version though I understand they tried to refine it with MK2 by moderating the bass. The first version might have the more "honest" tuning in terms of presenting itself as a "fun" headphone and nothing more (which of course is fine). I do remember the first version is made in Japan, whereas the second is made in China (edit: Malaysia). Given the choice, I'd prefer a Japanese build.
I have to say, I never heard the 1st version though I understand they tried to refine it with MK2 by moderating the bass. The first version might have the more "honest" tuning in terms of presenting itself as a "fun" headphone and nothing more (which of course is fine). I do remember the first version is made in Japan, whereas the second is made in China. Given the choice, I'd prefer a Japanese build.
Here is a copy of the comparison, last week. Though I thought the MK2 was made at the Malaysia factory? They may have moved production. The Z7 IS different than the Z7MK2. Funny though some people like the MK2. MrWalkman loves it? Also I have another close friend here, who uses it all the time? But I’ve never heard the MK2?
Comparison of Sony MDR-Z7 to MDR-Z1R——————————————————————————————
The interesting part was I did a side by side contest between the MDR-Z1R and the MDR-Z7 yesterday. I normally listen to the TA amp when using those headphones. But for the test I used only the single ended “Asgard” amp and the Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus. Basically I was just trying the amp with the headphones to learn of the results and differences between them.
What the most profound thing I learned is about bass texture. Meaning, if you were not shown excellent bass definition and detail you would maybe accept sub standard tone. The other confusing aspect is that in this particular situation we are not looking for more amp power to make it louder at all!
This phenomenon I have learned about 12 years ago. I keep hearing and learning different levels of it and it’s ramifications.
It’s not an argument at all. But it is the sum of many things. The headphone make model, the amp, the style of music, and the volume used. Even the source comes into play here. Mainly you don’t know you have better damping till you here it. Also many have done modifications to their headphones to get dampening. Which dampening does other things but in many ways they are the same. So there is electric damping and the manufacturing process and enthusiast may do dampening with material to absorb standing waves, reduce reflection and finally tune or diminish actual cup resonance. Also obviously the two are different but at times better damping can get the same results as (better) dampening.
The result of my test showed the MDR-Z7 to be way more inferior to the MDR-Z1R. Mainly in the bass area, but really everywhere. Funny too, as there is a mod to place dampening material in the Z7 cups. I haven’t done it.
The better parts of the Z1R (compared to the Z7) is obviously all across the board, meaning more realism, better soundstage and on and on. But the bass of the MDR-Z1R showed texture and detail. Especially with EDM there was the kick drum that showed itself to be round, have positioning and timbre. You could hear around and even underneath the kick! The Z7 offered at best a loss of pace as well as a slightly foggy thud where the bass was. If you had no comparison you still may hold the Z7 in high regard, as you didn’t know better.
The idea of adding more power (other than the Walkman 1Z) is that the damping will also increase the quality in the MDR-Z1R. So the issue is in a way the same. Increase damping will get you bass texture as well as bigger soundstage. Strangely, people may actually listen (with an amp) at lower volume than the Walkmans? Reason being that there can actually be a 1 dB improvement in bass. That 1dB or more will sound like way more bass. But it’s not it’s just combined with better defined bass. Better defined bass actually has an end really of sounding like more bass. This is a highly regarded sonic illusion of sorts!
Simply said, more power gets the diaphragm of the Z1R to start and stop with more precision! The movement forward and back (and to stop) is better controlled.
In the end more damping power (say the difference would be the Walkmans in contrast to the TA amp) would mean the Z1R would have just slightly better speed as well as a bigger soundstage, the bass definition (maybe a smidge more bass) and even slightly more real timbre. Mind you this is maybe only 10% of the noted differences..........and it depends on volume used. Volume has all kinds of changes really. The human ear actually creates distortion after a certain level. But beyond that.........drivers actually have their own distortion as well as a change in frequency reproduction. I feel the real (and most noticeable) difference would be in the realm of psychological results. Meaning that (added loudness) (added) volume would change almost everything!
But over the years I have come across super low volume listeners that seemed to not notice the damping issue as much? So I don’t know? But it’s a guess that in their use, damping is less of an issue?
I have headphones from all over, but there is definitely a difference people perceive...from factories being moved. The AKG k701 used to be made in Austria, then China. But Sony makes the DMP-Z1 in Japan...........the IER-Z1R, the original Z7, the XBA-Z5............all there. The 1A and 1Z are made in Malaysia.
I have headphones from all over, but there is definitely a difference people perceive...from factories being moved. The AKG k701 used to be made in Austria, then China. But Sony makes the DMP-Z1 in Japan...........the IER-Z1R, the original Z7, the XBA-Z5 all there. The 1A and 1Z are made in Malaysia.
I'd agree with this; it tends to concern headphones rather than DAPS/DAC/AMPS. I think there's often a "myth" of the first point of production of a given headphone (not only AKG and Sony but German made Sennheiser built in Ireland or Romania etc), as though the first iteration was more authentic, which might be the case. There's definitely some sort of tacit hierarchical structure associated with these locations of build. My sense is that people tend to think that if they're paying a certain amount of money, they expect it to come from a certain place and are often surprised to find many of the objects (if not the components making the objects) come from elsewhere.
Edit: I'd add, it's hard not to be seduced by this sort of narrative with footage like this from Fostex:
I'd agree with this; it tends to concern headphones rather than DAPS/DAC/AMPS. I think there's often a "myth" of the first point of production of a given headphone (not only AKG and Sony but German made Sennheiser built in Ireland or Romania etc), as though the first iteration was more authentic, which might be the case. There's definitely some sort of tacit hierarchical structure associated with these locations of build. My sense is that people tend to think that if they're paying a certain amount of money, they expect it to come from a certain place and are often surprised to find many of the objects (if not the components making the objects) come from elsewhere.
The Sony TA-ZH1ES is made in Malaysia too? There may have been a time it really mattered (to me) where stuff was made? But it may be a cost to production ratio? Though....Sony does like to push that the factory in Tokyo is special.
People said the China built AKG k701s were “creaky”! But they sounded exactly the same.
The Sony TA-ZH1ES is made in Malaysia too? There may have been a time it really mattered (to me) where stuff was made? But it may be a cost to production ratio? Though....Sony does like to push that the factory in Tokyo is special.
People said the China built AKG k701s were “creaky”! But they sounded exactly the same.
Well exactly, generally manufacturers reserve their place of origin for "premium" products. Fostex, Sony, Audio-Technica, Sennheiser, etc all do this with their high-end gear. It's a marketing device, but an effective one.
I have been A/Bing the Denon d9200 along with the Sennheiser hd 820 for the last few hours and must say I'm quite surprised as I was expecting the d9200 to whip the floor with the Sennheiser after reading lots of reviews. This is a first impression so take it for what it's worth.
First of let's talk optics and design. The Denon 9200 is just beautiful. The Bamboo wood, the plush leather on the headband and the cups feel quite luxurious. I also like that these aren't too big on the head and might be quite portable.
The hd820 with its industrial design could look much different. It's quite stylish to but doesn't ooze that classy feel of the Denon. It's mainly made of plastic but doesn't feel cheap and at least in my limited testing time the more comfortable of the two.
I'm running both off the HDV820 with their stock cables, though I'm using the 4.4 balanced cable on the Sennheiser. The Denon unfortunately just comes with a single ended cable.
What I noticed right away is that the soundstage of the hd 820 is at least twice of not thrice the size of the d9200. Bass response seems about equal with the Denon offering a slightly cleaner bass and maybe extends a bit deeper. Songs I used for testing include blue Monday from new order and paradise circus from massive attack.
Mids and highs I find much better on the Sennheiser, probably due to the wider soundstage and airyness. I noticed it especially on songs with acoustic guitars like Jason Molina/ songs ohia stuff. Separation and imaging also seem much better on the Sennheiser as I found it a lot easier to distinguish and place different instruments in a track.
The Denon will probably be easier to drive from my DAP.
I'll post some more impressions after listening more to the Denon. Would like to keep it just on looks alone
Still thinking about the z1R but not sure if it would offer anything substantial better or different.
I have been A/Bing the Denon d9200 along with the Sennheiser hd 820 for the last few hours and must say I'm quite surprised as I was expecting the d9200 to whip the floor with the Sennheiser after reading lots of reviews. This is a first impression so take it for what it's worth.
First of let's talk optics and design. The Denon 9200 is just beautiful. The Bamboo wood, the plush leather on the headband and the cups feel quite luxurious. I also like that these aren't too big on the head and might be quite portable.
The hd820 with its industrial design could look much different. It's quite stylish to but doesn't ooze that classy feel of the Denon. It's mainly made of plastic but doesn't feel cheap and at least in my limited testing time the more comfortable of the two.
I'm running both off the HDV820 with their stock cables, though I'm using the 4.4 balanced cable on the Sennheiser. The Denon unfortunately just comes with a single ended cable.
What I noticed right away is that the soundstage of the hd 820 is at least twice of not thrice the size of the d9200. Bass response seems about equal with the Denon offering a slightly cleaner bass and maybe extends a bit deeper. Songs I used for testing include blue Monday from new order and paradise circus from massive attack.
Mids and highs I find much better on the Sennheiser, probably due to the wider soundstage and airyness. I noticed it especially on songs with acoustic guitars like Jason Molina/ songs ohia stuff. Separation and imaging also seem much better on the Sennheiser as I found it a lot easier to distinguish and place different instruments in a track.
The Denon will probably be easier to drive from my DAP.
I'll post some more impressions after listening more to the Denon. Would like to keep it just on looks alone
Still thinking about the z1R but not sure if it would offer anything substantial better or different.
Maybe you are still too sennheiserified and need some time to adapt.
Possibly the output impedance of the HDV820 with 40 ohms is not very good in combination with the D9200 (Impedance: 24Ω; Sensitivity: 105dB), did you try them on your DAPs or other amps yet?
Maybe you are still too sennheiserified and need some time to adapt.
Possibly the output impedance of the HDV820 with 40 ohms is not very good in combination with the D9200 (Impedance: 24Ω; Sensitivity: 105dB), did you try them on your DAPs or other amps yet?
That's what I thought too I'll give them plenty of time still. Listening on my A&K kann alpha right now. Way better than the HD 660S which I'm usually using on my DAP.
Btw does anybody know a decent balanced cable for the d9200? Would love to run it off the 4.4 output.
Furthermore, what are people's opinion on the sound isolation? I'm chilling on my balcony and theres a street about 100m away from my house with some average traffic and I can still hear the traffic noises while listening to music (medium loudness level).
I have the 820 and bought the Z1R which I had for about a month. Not in the same league at all. While the Sony is nice headphone that is a laid back listen, the 820 is more detailed, has a much wider soundstage, better separation, and for me I don't get the wonky tonality others report and find great similarity to the 800S with better bass, treble tamed even more (just as the S tames treble over the original 800), but with a slightly smaller soundstage.
I have the 820 and bought the Z1R which I had for about a month. Not in the same league at all. While the Sony is nice headphone that is a laid back listen, the 820 is more detailed, has a much wider soundstage, better separation, and for me I don't get the wonky tonality others report and find great similarity to the 800S with better bass, treble tamed even more (just as the S tames treble over the original 800), but with a slightly smaller soundstage.
That's the exact same experience I had with the hd820. I was very hesitant in buying it due to all the drama regarding the frequency response. I got it for way cheaper than the 2.4k it retailed at and together with the hdv820 it's just a revelation and pure joy to listen to.
I might also be fortunate to not experience any issues with regard to the sealing or maybe they fixed it with later models. Like you I find the sound signature very similar to the 800S with maybe a soundstage reduced by 1/3.
Enjoying the d9200 very much on my DAP though. Should be an ideal solution for when being on the move or walking around in the house and also listening in bed and not disturbing the wife and baby. The HD 820 is much to big to listen to in bed.
Well exactly, generally manufacturers reserve their place of origin for "premium" products. Fostex, Sony, Audio-Technica, Sennheiser, etc all do this with their high-end gear. It's a marketing device, but an effective one.
I'd say that the nearer production is to development, the better the interaction between those parts and maybe also the quality control.
What I do like about Japanese headphones is their attention to detail. And yes, I do think a Japanese manufacturing plant might be more in line with this thinking. But still, most of the bad reputation of "Made in China" has, shows missing end control I think. And if that aspect is not taken care of, most factories will deliver sub-par quality pieces among those better ones. Thinking about the Schiit Audio stories about metal manufacturing results...
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I'll give them plenty of time still. Listening on my A&K kann alpha right now. Way better than the HD 660S which I'm usually using on my DAP. 
