[FunyunBreath]

You don't think proper amping gives headphones a wider soundstage? 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

So, I went to a "mini-meet" tonight, just a few of us guys who are into HiFi, they were all older than me, and I'm no spring chicken. Anyway, one of the guys is really into Beyerdynamics, and I've been interested in the T1s so I was looking forward to having a listen. Well, first I listened to his DT880, 600Ohm variety, and they sounded great. There was some nice sparkle, but not harsh, good fluid mids and some solid bass. I had heard DT880s before but it's been years, but it seems that I like them more now. Of course, it might have had something to do with the guy's WA5, nice little setup. Anyway, was time to listen to the T1 and umm... it was like listening to the 880s again. They seemed a bit more smooth, a bit more sparkle up top, and they were more comfortable and sturdier. But overall I can't say that they blew my socks off, the lack of difference was surprising. Anyway, I didn't insult the guy, I was polite and told him that they really were outstanding. However, I know I won't be getting the T1s now, it's the DT880s for me. They're either an amazing deal or the T1s are one of the worst buys in head-fi, IMO. Listening to them back-to-back with the same source and material was very telling. I feel like Clara in the Wendy's commercial, "where's the beef?"
Maybe I'm missed something. Or, hell, maybe my ears are messed up, who knows?

your right the T1 I owned twice were excellent but not 4X better than the 880. There are difference but its maybe 90-95 percent of the T1 which losing 10 percent in transparency and detail is not  1K better IMO.

 

[LizardKing1]

 
Quote:

You don't think proper amping gives headphones a wider soundstage? 

No, I don't. It's not stupid at all to believe it does, and I myself believed so - it made sense, better amp, better sound, including bigger soundstage. But once I read a bit on amps and understood that there's no magic behind them I realized they can't cange what's completely a characteristic of the headphones. That's what I think to be a huge problem with Head-Fi, the mystification of what is a very much understood human creation: the amplifier.

 

[Magick Man]

No, I don't. It's not stupid at all to believe it does, and I myself believed so - it made sense, better amp, better sound, including bigger soundstage. But once I read a bit on amps and understood that there's no magic behind them I realized they can't cange what's completely a characteristic of the headphones. That's what I think to be a huge problem with Head-Fi, the mystification of what is a very much understood human creation: the amplifier.

Which is why they command 2-6x their actual value. People think of them as magical boxes that alchemically transform dross to gold. They don't. It's a pleasant romantic notion but has little bearing on reality.

your right the T1 I owned twice were excellent but not 4X better than the 880. There are difference but its maybe 90-95 percent of the T1 which losing 10 percent in transparency and detail is not  1K better IMO.

Yeah, I know that value is relative, and $1000 for an extra 5% sound quality is a bargain for some, but I just didn't get the feeling of awe that I got from the first time I heard HD800s or Stax SR-007s. When I heard the T1s I thought, "these would be great $700 cans".

 

[macm75]

I'm listening my new 600ohm 880's and pretty crazy about them.  I came from AKG-501's, Stax SR-303's, AT AD-900, and now these 880's.  I've built many tube amps for these different HP's and lately been enjoying an amp based on dsavitsk's Electric Ave (10K:600 OPT)( http://www.ecp.cc/SSS.html ).  I find this to be a beautiful match.
 
 
 

 

[Chris J]

Get the Beyer DT880 Premium 600-Ohm or save a few dollars and get the DT880 Pro 250-Ohm?
A $45 price difference.
I use a Xonar Essence STX (3 LME49860NA op-amps) and a Yamaha RX-671 receiver and sometimes a $70 tube amp. (from China).
Would the Premium 600-Ohm even work with the RX-V671?
I already have DT990 Pro 250-Ohm and a DT770 Pro 250-Ohm, would the DT880 offer any feature/advantages over them?

It depends on how the headphone jack in the RX is powered.
If it is powered from the power amp, then there should be plenty of voltage available to drive them.

There is a massive misconception out there that only an OTL amp can drive 600 ohm 'phones.
I have 600 ohm Beyers and 2,000 ohm Sennheisers, I can easily drive either of them via my Matrix M Stage. I also thought the bass was tighter via the Matrix than via my OTL amp.
OTOH, my OTL sounds more romantic, warm and lush when driving my 'phones.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

It depends on how the headphone jack in the RX is powered.
If it is powered from the power amp, then there should be plenty of voltage available to drive them.
There is a massive misconception out there that only an OTL amp can drive 600 ohm 'phones.
I have 600 ohm Beyers and 2,000 ohm Sennheisers, I can easily drive either of them via my Matrix M Stage. I also thought the bass was tighter via the Matrix than via my OTL amp.
OTOH, my OTL sounds more romantic, warm and lush when driving my 'phones.

I liked the Matrix with the T1 but preferred the major step up Decware OTL. I use the CSP2 for the 880 and also have the SX650 Pioneer but the CSP2 is much better and the Taboo also works well with all my high impedance cans as well. They  scale well.
 

 

[LizardKing1]

 
Quote:

It depends on how the headphone jack in the RX is powered.
If it is powered from the power amp, then there should be plenty of voltage available to drive them.
There is a massive misconception out there that only an OTL amp can drive 600 ohm 'phones.
I have 600 ohm Beyers and 2,000 ohm Sennheisers, I can easily drive either of them via my Matrix M Stage. I also thought the bass was tighter via the Matrix than via my OTL amp.
OTOH, my OTL sounds more romantic, warm and lush when driving my 'phones.

Also the O2 can drive them easily, and without the distorted goodness of OTL.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

I liked the Matrix with the T1 but preferred the major step up Decware OTL. I use the CSP2 for the 880 and also have the SX650 Pioneer but the CSP2 is much better and the Taboo also works well with all my high impedance cans as well. They  scale well.
 

Yeah, a friend of mine, who's opinion I trust,  raves about the Taboo!  
 
Quote:

Also the O2 can drive them easily, and without the distorted goodness of OTL.

LOL!   I've never heard a O2, but it certainly puts out enough voltage to drive 600 ohm Beyers!
 

 

[macm75]

Quote:

It depends on how the headphone jack in the RX is powered.
If it is powered from the power amp, then there should be plenty of voltage available to drive them.
There is a massive misconception out there that only an OTL amp can drive 600 ohm 'phones.
I have 600 ohm Beyers and 2,000 ohm Sennheisers, I can easily drive either of them via my Matrix M Stage. I also thought the bass was tighter via the Matrix than via my OTL amp.
OTOH, my OTL sounds more romantic, warm and lush when driving my 'phones.

For instance, my spud tube amp is not OTL - it's transformer coupled with 600ohm secondary.
My experience is one has to put in a lot of time and effort to get an OTL to sound good - a big issue is the big output capacitor.  Bypassing oil caps with films/teflons/mica's help but I always felt left with romantic, warm, lush, and loose bass sound.  My guess is most of those makers put in electrolytics there - no thanks.
 

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

For instance, my spud tube amp is not OTL - it's transformer coupled with 600ohm secondary.
My experience is one has to put in a lot of time and effort to get an OTL to sound good - a big issue is the big output capacitor.  Bypassing oil caps with films/teflons/mica's help but I always felt left with romantic, warm, lush, and loose bass sound.  My guess is most of those makers put in electrolytics there - no thanks.
 

So Wrong on your thought with an OTL. Mine is plug and play. Decware forever. For high impedance cans I have heard no equal. My Taboo is better with the low impedance cans I have

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

So Wrong on your thought with an OTL. Mine is plug and play. Decware forever. For high impedance cans I have heard no equal. My Taboo is better with the low impedance cans I have

Not trying to be argumentive, but your Decware cost approx. 3X as much as my La Figaro 336C.
Yes, I did have to replace the tubes on my 336C to really get the sound to open up.
New Chinese tubes don't really cut it.  I doubt they really are 6SN7 and 6AS7 equivalents.
I would expect it to be plug and play! 

 

 

[MattTCG]

I am not a user but wanna be. Gonna look for a used pair here. What kind of amp does these like?

 

[Aecursis]

Will the Essence STX's amp be enough for the 600ohm 880's, or would I be better suited going for the 250ohm version?

 

[MattTCG]

I have the 990/600's and the stx seems to do a good job with them. I'd be interested in hearing them with some other amps just to see if there is any more headroom there.