[sK0pe]

I don't know personally, I really like my combo of DT880  + HE 400i to do all the things that are required by headphones.  The 650s were terrible in comparison super bloaty.  If I want clean, detailed and bass i grab for the 400i.  When I need more positional audio and songs with great treble extension I grab the 880s.  The 880s are also great for imaging and sound stage.
 
The reason so many people have bough 6x0 is they are so over hyped out of every audiophile headphone.  Plus they're the closest you can get to consumer retail headphones.  My parents can't tell the difference between the 880 the 400i, so give the the 6x0, they're not going to be able to tell the difference, it also avoids having to listen for any treble extension which most headphones won't reveal.  The sharp drop off turned me off of the 6x0 range completely.  The only headphones from the Sennheiser range I would consider owning after auditioning the 500 range to 800 range is the HD 600, but I don't because the HE400i exists.  Plus I have DT880s for everything else.  The HD 650 for mid and low bass just seem flabby when compared to planar bass.
 
If you want actual accurate bass you need to own a set of planars to complement your dynamics.
 
The 880s do have bass unlike what almost everyone seems to imply on these forums, it's just a different signature.  I can sit and listen to NWA completely happy on either headphone.  Of course for different reasons.  If I feel as if a song seems to be particularly a party song I switch to another headphone and pick up everything missing in the other headphone.  
 
The only point when I see a major difference out of this type of combo (mid-fi dynamic + mid-fi planar) is getting something hiifi like the DT1990 / Amiron / T1 / Audeze / Hifiman Edition X.  
 
It's hilarious reading descriptions of sibilance in the 400i thread though.
 
Anyhow don't think this is just Sennheiser bashing, more that people should be aware of headphones outside of the HD6x0 which frankly match and outperform them at various points and don't need the excuse of "oh you need to power them because they scale with power so buy a $1500 amp".

 

[bavinck]

I love the leaner bass on the dt880/600. I really do not understand when people say 880s lack bass. I especially love them with electronic, properly amped lots of bass to my ears.

 

[CBonUK]

  I don't know personally, I really like my combo of DT880  + HE 400i to do all the things that are required by headphones.  The 650s were terrible in comparison super bloaty.  If I want clean, detailed and bass i grab for the 400i.  When I need more positional audio and songs with great treble extension I grab the 880s.  The 880s are also great for imaging and sound stage.
 
The reason so many people have bough 6x0 is they are so over hyped out of every audiophile headphone.  Plus they're the closest you can get to consumer retail headphones.  My parents can't tell the difference between the 880 the 400i, so give the the 6x0, they're not going to be able to tell the difference, it also avoids having to listen for any treble extension which most headphones won't reveal.  The sharp drop off turned me off of the 6x0 range completely.  The only headphones from the Sennheiser range I would consider owning after auditioning the 500 range to 800 range is the HD 600, but I don't because the HE400i exists.  Plus I have DT880s for everything else.  The HD 650 for mid and low bass just seem flabby when compared to planar bass.
 
If you want actual accurate bass you need to own a set of planars to complement your dynamics.
 
The 880s do have bass unlike what almost everyone seems to imply on these forums, it's just a different signature.  I can sit and listen to NWA completely happy on either headphone.  Of course for different reasons.  If I feel as if a song seems to be particularly a party song I switch to another headphone and pick up everything missing in the other headphone.  
 
The only point when I see a major difference out of this type of combo (mid-fi dynamic + mid-fi planar) is getting something hiifi like the DT1990 / Amiron / T1 / Audeze / Hifiman Edition X.  
 
It's hilarious reading descriptions of sibilance in the 400i thread though.
 
Anyhow don't think this is just Sennheiser bashing, more that people should be aware of headphones outside of the HD6x0 which frankly match and outperform them at various points and don't need the excuse of "oh you need to power them because they scale with power so buy a $1500 amp".

​Interesting reading.  You mention the DT1990/Amiron... what are their true competitors at the same price point would you say ?
 
ALSO, you joke about descriptions of sibilance.  Can you explain sibilance to me as a noob ?  Or is it something that if you are unaware of it you don't want to know, just like people either see or don't see the rainbow effect on DLP colourwheel projectors.  I didn't notice it until it was pointed out to me and the sales guy regretted pointing it out, because as soon as I saw it I was looking for it and pulled out of a high value purchase. LOL.

 

[Argyris]

  I totally agree with the idea of avoiding the pitfall of denial and not giving excuses for a piece of equipment if it does not meet certain expectations. For this reason, the HD 600 was the one headphone that had the shortest term of ownership versus all others that I ever had which I promptly sold within two weeks. It was also the one that got the most negative responses from the people I shared it with, the most common response being it was boring and sounded muffled from my friends and family when they gave them a try. Fast forward to today, I am the most pleased with my Beyerdynamic DT 880-600's out of the headphones I have owned to date, but I have been in the process of creating a review site and have had the idea of buying a TOTL headphone in the cards for some time. In my original plans, the DT 880-600 was both an experiment and an interim headphone I had in mind until late this year after graduation when I would then buy either the T1 1st Gen or HD 800. However, I am thinking more and more of bumping up the review site project and also getting the TOTL earlier than originally planned. So it is not a case at all with being dissatisfied with the DT 880-600's. Quite the contrary, I am enjoying them very much so at this very moment while I am typing up this response. Thank you for your concern and willingness to share your thoughts so I could avoid a very common pitfall of buyer's denial but that is not the case here at all, actually.

 
I think we're actually coming at things from the same viewpoint. My comments weren't directed at you to suggest that you were somehow dissatisfied with the DT880 and were denying it. Rather, what I'm saying is that the headphone that allows the listener to make the best connection to the music is the one they should keep, and, conversely, one should not force oneself to keep something they don't enjoy (or at least find some fault with) just because they have this artificial notion that somehow it's "correct" and that this counts for more than one's personal enjoyment. I saw the thread getting into one of those discussions about technicality, and the familiar arguments about how a lot of music is poorly produced and that's why non-audiophile listeners might not get much out of headphones like the DT880. The way I see it, if the hypothetical average listener doesn't like the DT880, then it's just not the right headphone for them. They're not wrong, and the music isn't wrong.
 
For my part, the HD 600 ended up being the best overall fit, which just goes to show how individual this whole personal listening thing is. You clearly had a very different experience, and rather than listening to all the people (twenty years worth of them!) who say the HD 600 is technically superior and sticking with something you didn't enjoy, you ditched the Sennheiser and continued the search. This, IMO, is the correct way of doing things. In a roundabout sort of way, I guess I was agreeing with you on this point.

 

[Argyris]

I love the leaner bass on the dt880/600. I really do not understand when people say 880s lack bass. I especially love them with electronic, properly amped lots of bass to my ears.

 
The DT880 has excellent bass extension for an open dynamic of its vintage. It is noticeably better in this regard than the HD 600, against which I've compared it extensively. The DT880 certainly lacks any sort of boost in the bass, but it digs nice and deep when required. This has always been one of my favorite qualities of this headphone.
 

  Can you explain sibilance to me as a noob ? 

 
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a crack at it anyway. Sibilance, as the term is used in regards to headphones, is extra energy in the lower to mid-treble region. It manifests itself as exaggerated "sss" and "ch" sounds, which, if excessive, can cause fatigue for sensitive listeners. Headphones like the DT880 that have elevated treble are prone to sibilance depending on the recording. Some people perceive the extra treble but don't mind it; others can be very bothered by it. It's an individual thing, and you know immediately if it affects you. You won't have to hunt for it. If you're sensitive, you'll feel like you want to stop listening or turn the volume down after just a short time.

If you ever feel that way about a headphone, it's time to crate it up and try something else because, despite the tales of magical transformations and remedies that abound in the audiophile world, it's not going to get significantly better.

 

[SHAMuuu]

   
The DT880 has excellent bass extension for an open dynamic of its vintage. It is noticeably better in this regard than the HD 600, against which I've compared it extensively. The DT880 certainly lacks any sort of boost in the bass, but it digs nice and deep when required. This has always been one of my favorite qualities of this headphone.
 
 
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a crack at it anyway. Sibilance, as the term is used in regards to headphones, is extra energy in the lower to mid-treble region. It manifests itself as exaggerated "sss" and "ch" sounds, which, if excessive, can cause fatigue for sensitive listeners. Headphones like the DT880 that have elevated treble are prone to sibilance depending on the recording. Some people perceive the extra treble but don't mind it; others can be very bothered by it. It's an individual thing, and you know immediately if it affects you. You won't have to hunt for it. If you're sensitive, you'll feel like you want to stop listening or turn the volume down after just a short time.

If you ever feel that way about a headphone, it's time to crate it up and try something else because, despite the tales of magical transformations and remedies that abound in the audiophile world, it's not going to get significantly better.

The extension and impact sometimes really surprise me, because i don't expect it. To my ears, and maybe i'm imagining it, it can go low as 35hz, sometimes i think 30hz. But I don't really try and push the bass on these , i have basshead cans to get my fix. I let the bass just happen. The first time i heard it, i was like hmmm, and same with dt660. Kind of like "why do people like these anti-bass cans" ? But when paired with the right music in music exploration, you being to appreciate these tools. For relaxed listening, its hard to beat the raw but gentle signature (250 here), and appreciate the details. I dont find them boring like I did initially Its possible the synergy of my soul and its quirks. Does anyone know what material is the diaphragm?  Why is it bumpy and weird looking? I cannot find this info anywhere, but recall somewhere that old ones had some plant based cellulose mixed into some composite, but I don't know if i mixed this with some other company. If anyone knows???
 
Also to the magical tales, i love em. Though sometimes you can sense this darkness within the tales of the hobby. Kind of like watching people who have fallen in love with their car, or marry the Eiffel tower. I don;t discredit cables or amplifiers, as I know they make a difference. But ofc some of the 'tweaks' are a little overboard, which is an understatement, but i do respect their passion to reach audio nirvana. I was more caught in the madness with car audio than headphones, mostly because the whole body feels it, and tweaks make bigger differences. Bubbling bass in a bubble floating around town watching the madness. Yum.

 

[sK0pe]

​Interesting reading.  You mention the DT1990/Amiron... what are their true competitors at the same price point would you say ?

I don't know, I've only listened to the dt1990 and dt1770 in a quiet room and had listened to a number of midfi headphones before. I was going to buy the hd600 that day until I listened to the dt1990 and realised I needed to spend significantly more money to buy an experience that is significantly different than the dt880s.

Argyris explained sibilance very well. However it is personal by also overstated by many to describe treble extension outside of the range they have heard.

 

[CBonUK]

I don't know, I've only listened to the dt1990 and dt1770 in a quiet room and had listened to a number of midfi headphones before. I was going to buy the hd600 that day until I listened to the dt1990 and realised I needed to spend significantly more money to buy an experience that is significantly different than the dt880s.

Argyris explained sibilance very well. However it is personal by also overstated by many to describe treble extension outside of the range they have heard.

How would you describe the 1770 compared to the 1990 ?

 

[sK0pe]

One is closed, the other is semi-open to open.
The DT1770 reaches some incredible levels of bass while being weaker in the mids.  I didn't really like it because of the great emphasis of bass. The closed nature is amazing, you  put these on and you might as well be listening to a set of noise cancelling headphones or better.  While being closed they still somehow manage a very decent level of sound stage, as in the sound stage of most mid-fi open cans.  Imaging is also good.  Honestly the vast majority of time I spent with the DT1990 because I much preferred the sound stage it produced.
The dt1990s are crazy after a 45 minute listening session with AKG K712 Pro, DT880 and Sennheiser hd600 and hd650.  The sound stage is huge, like the K712 Pro, does even better with less power demands from the amplifier.  However it doesn't lose out on imaging and has  better imaging than all 3 (as does the 1770).  The mids are there as are the Beyer highs but not Grado level stupidity.  Bass is super clean and not distorted.  Some people who love bass might not like it due to the lack of sub bass.
 
I  personally think the dt1990s are better suited to mastering than the dt1770s but I'm a nobody in the world of music production.

 

[sK0pe]

An example album you can provide to really show of DT880s is Inception (Music From the Motion Picture), even though there is immense bass through out the tracks the treble extension that the  DT880 provides the amazing juxtaposition between the quieter strings, e.g. Time.
 
Easily blew away  my HE 400i's in many tracks while faster paced tracks went to the 400i e.g. Mombasa.

 

[SunshineReggae]

The bass on the 880 is by no means bad , but always when I go to the dt 990 , I think to myself ah yes, that is the full sound I was missing. I think the 880 is really well tuned, it's just a matter of preference and the suitability to your music tastes. In my case it just means the 990 is the headphone for me , at the same time I easily can imagine 880 is more right for some. It's an excellent headphone.

 

[CBonUK]

  The bass on the 880 is by no means bad , but always when I go to the dt 990 , I think to myself ah yes, that is the full sound I was missing. I think the 880 is really well tuned, it's just a matter of preference and the suitability to your music tastes. In my case it just means the 990 is the headphone for me , at the same time I easily can imagine 880 is more right for some. It's an excellent headphone.

​fair enough, please can you describe what it is you like / prefer about the 990 compared to 880, apart from the bass ?

 

[Sennheiser Yo]

Who can make me a detachable cable mod for my dt880 pros? i hate the cable that you cant remove.

 

[SunshineReggae]

 
​fair enough, please can you describe what it is you like / prefer about the 990 compared to 880, apart from the bass ?

 
What differences apart from the bass, hehe. Mmm , the midrange is a bit further back than on the 880, but it's basically the exact same quality, together with the airy treble it totally works for me. It's warm and clear, sparkly and detailed, with a beautiful midrange to hold things together, and it works for everything you listen to. It's a fun and interesting sound signature that's at the same time very technically capable.

 

[bavinck]

   
What differences apart from the bass, hehe. Mmm , the midrange is a bit further back than on the 880, but it's basically the exact same quality, together with the airy treble it totally works for me. It's warm and clear, sparkly and detailed, with a beautiful midrange to hold things together, and it works for everything you listen to. It's a fun and interesting sound signature that's at the same time very technically capable.

Some people like mid bass (990) some people like subbass (880).