The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread
Feb 14, 2017 at 5:15 PM Post #10,666 of 12,238

devhen

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  If you are speaking merely about the attenuation of outside sound, then yes, I definitely agree the HD 600 attenuates a bit less than DT 880. However, they don't disappear/get out of the way of the music as much as my DT 880-600's. In my experience, the HD 600's driver presence is a bit more obvious than the DT 880-600's.

 
Agreed. This is why I prefer the DT880. :wink: More neutral, less grainy, less obvious you're listening to a tiny dynamic speaker. I was just talking about the physical property of openness because SHAMuuu was talking about removing materials to make the DT990 more open.
 
Feb 14, 2017 at 5:25 PM Post #10,667 of 12,238

Hifihedgehog

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Agreed. This is why I prefer the DT880. :wink: More neutral, less grainy, less obvious you're listening to a tiny dynamic speaker. I was just talking about the physical property of openness because SHAMuuu was talking about removing materials to make the DT990 more open.

Gotcha. :wink: It would be quite nice if we had access to as high scale of a testing rig as Tyll's to test this sort of things and see what impact removing attenuating material would have on the overall sound quality.
 
Feb 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM Post #10,668 of 12,238

devhen

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  Gotcha. :wink: It would be quite nice if we had access to as high scale of a testing rig as Tyll's to test this sort of things and see what impact removing attenuating material would have on the overall sound quality.

 
Most definitely. That would be very, very interesting.
 
Feb 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM Post #10,669 of 12,238

TrollDragon

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  Gotcha. :wink: It would be quite nice if we had access to as high scale of a testing rig as Tyll's to test this sort of things and see what impact removing attenuating material would have on the overall sound quality.


Just build yourself a rig like they use when doing Fostex T50RP mods.

All the details are at the start of the FIMM thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements
 
Feb 14, 2017 at 11:37 PM Post #10,670 of 12,238

devhen

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Been messing around with my new Beyerdynamic A20 amp for about an hour. Definitely sounds good. It seems to be slightly different than my Lake People G109 but I need more time to digest it. There's one really weird thing though-- it has passthru RCA outputs and when I connect those to my G109 and then turn the G109 off, the A20 gets really distorted in the bass. I have to either not have the G109 plugged into the outputs or always leave the G109 on otherwise the sounds goes to *****. Pretty weird.
 
Feb 15, 2017 at 7:41 PM Post #10,671 of 12,238

devhen

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I've been spending more time with the A20 amp. Its very interesting. It does sound slightly different from my G109. I suspect what I'm hearing are the effects of the 100 ohm output. My DT880 Pro and DT990 Pro seem to have a little more midbass and there seems to be maybe just a *tiny* bit more treble detail in the very highest frequencies as well as maybe just a *tiny* bit more in the very lowest sub-bass as well. I expected the A20 to sound better than the G109 (for some reason) but to be honest; and admittedly after only 1 day of listening; I feel like the G109 sounds a little cleaner. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I'm hearing just a little bit more distortion with the A20 compared to the G109. Its barely noticeable but its there. Is it possible that despite the relatively high impedance of these cans (250 ohm) the high output impedance of the A20 is resulting in more distortion because it isn't able to dampen as well as the G109 with its 0.1 ohm output impedance?
 
Feb 17, 2017 at 4:34 AM Post #10,672 of 12,238

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Feb 17, 2017 at 11:45 AM Post #10,673 of 12,238

TrollDragon

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Many of the photos are no longer visible at the online image service for the DIY binaural microphone/head and torso simulator they describe.


There are some links with basic DIY testing rigs in this thread by solderdude and BMF.
http://diyah.boards.net/thread/361/build-headphone-test-rig-tips

John Conover's test rig looks easy enough to get decent results from.
http://www.johncon.com/john/wm61a/
 
Feb 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Post #10,674 of 12,238

CBonUK

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Hi there, Ive been looking at higher priced headphones like the DT1990 and Amiron home etc, but I'm wondering if I am aiming too high.  Initially the DT880's were recommended to me but I decided to go for pricier options.  Now I'm not so sure.  Has anyone who owns the DT880s here listened to the other two models I just mentioned  ?  How would you compare your (250ohm) DT880's to them ?  Is the extra £250-300 justified ?   ALSO, has anyone used the "manufaktur" option where you can customise your own DT880 edition ... colour of various parts etc ?
 
Feb 17, 2017 at 7:03 PM Post #10,675 of 12,238

xinghui0711

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Hi there, Ive been looking at higher priced headphones like the DT1990 and Amiron home etc, but I'm wondering if I am aiming too high.  Initially the DT880's were recommended to me but I decided to go for pricier options.  Now I'm not so sure.  Has anyone who owns the DT880s here listened to the other two models I just mentioned  ?  How would you compare your (250ohm) DT880's to them ?  Is the extra £250-300 justified ?   ALSO, has anyone used the "manufaktur" option where you can customise your own DT880 edition ... colour of various parts etc ?

It's really up to yourself to decide whether the extra money is worth or not... The newer lines are basically updated Tesla drivers with similar beyer sound signature. In theory the technical performance is better, but you should really hear them before making such judgement. Am I right? :D
 
Feb 17, 2017 at 8:06 PM Post #10,676 of 12,238

bavinck

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Hi there, Ive been looking at higher priced headphones like the DT1990 and Amiron home etc, but I'm wondering if I am aiming too high.  Initially the DT880's were recommended to me but I decided to go for pricier options.  Now I'm not so sure.  Has anyone who owns the DT880s here listened to the other two models I just mentioned  ?  How would you compare your (250ohm) DT880's to them ?  Is the extra £250-300 justified ?   ALSO, has anyone used the "manufaktur" option where you can customise your own DT880 edition ... colour of various parts etc ?

Honestly, I started with the 880 and moved all the way up through t1 and onto ether headphones. The more expensive headphones are very nice, but not worth the price differential imo. I have sold all my Iberia expensive headphones and re-bought the dt880/600 with a nice amp. Excellent sound.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 12:55 AM Post #10,677 of 12,238

Hifihedgehog

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There are some links with basic DIY testing rigs in this thread by solderdude and BMF.
http://diyah.boards.net/thread/361/build-headphone-test-rig-tips

John Conover's test rig looks easy enough to get decent results from.
http://www.johncon.com/john/wm61a/

Not to derail... For all of this, I greatly appreciate you passing along Conover's article, also the forum posts on solderdude and BMF's testing rigs, though I will be honest and admit it is not quite up to the level of specifications and accuracy I am aiming for. I read through John Conover's documentation for his headphone measurement system and while his conclusions are generally thorough and well-researched, there have been findings in recent years on which he has missed several key points. For example, he claims that while differences in output impedance may make minute differences in headphone frequency response on the order of a fraction of a decibel, these are inaudible. In the first place, this ignores the importance of a damping factor in other quantifiable areas, such as impulse response, which has to my ears a clearly audible effect in the temporal domain (generally less "sonic fog", as it were, with higher damping factors and near-zero output impedance). Secondly, in the case of very high output impedance, this ignores the effect of the increase of noise as a product of current and impedance though admittedly its impact is generally insignificant in this metric. Finally, his measurement system utilizes non-ideal materials along the sound wave propagation path to the microphone in that the headphone and canal and headphone docking materials themselves are not of an acoustic resonance or natural geometry which are approaching those of the human auditory system. In my DIY project, I would like to create a very ideal system that models as closely as possible the human auditory system so I will need a bit more than what these projects offer. Nonetheless, these resources will serve as a wonderfully rich resource and starting point as I continue my search in incorporating design elements from binaural recording and HATS systems in blueprinting my headphone measurement system.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 1:41 AM Post #10,678 of 12,238

TrollDragon

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  Not to derail... For all of this, I greatly appreciate you passing along Conover's article, also the forum posts on solderdude and BMF's testing rigs, though I will be honest and admit it is not quite up to the level of specifications and accuracy I am aiming for. I read through John Conover's documentation for his headphone measurement system and while his conclusions are generally thorough and well-researched, there have been findings in recent years on which he has missed several key points. For example, he claims that while differences in output impedance may make minute differences in headphone frequency response on the order of a fraction of a decibel, these are inaudible. In the first place, this ignores the importance of a damping factor in other quantifiable areas, such as impulse response, which has to my ears a clearly audible effect in the temporal domain (generally less "sonic fog", as it were, with higher damping factors and near-zero output impedance). Secondly, in the case of very high output impedance, this ignores the effect of the increase of noise as a product of current and impedance though admittedly its impact is generally insignificant in this metric. Finally, his measurement system utilizes non-ideal materials along the sound wave propagation path to the microphone in that the headphone and canal and headphone docking materials themselves are not of an acoustic resonance or natural geometry which are approaching those of the human auditory system. In my DIY project, I would like to create a very ideal system that models as closely as possible the human auditory system so I will need a bit more than what these projects offer. Nonetheless, these resources will serve as a wonderfully rich resource and starting point as I continue my search in incorporating design elements from binaural recording and HATS systems in blueprinting my headphone measurement system.


All way too in depth for me, I just enjoy music through the DT880's. 
biggrin.gif


Looks like quite the venture you are going to take on building a high end measurement system. Good luck on that journey and I hope you find a solution that works.
beerchug.gif

 
Feb 18, 2017 at 2:52 AM Post #10,679 of 12,238

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Hi there, Ive been looking at higher priced headphones like the DT1990 and Amiron home etc, but I'm wondering if I am aiming too high.  Initially the DT880's were recommended to me but I decided to go for pricier options.  Now I'm not so sure.  Has anyone who owns the DT880s here listened to the other two models I just mentioned  ?  How would you compare your (250ohm) DT880's to them ?  Is the extra £250-300 justified ?   ALSO, has anyone used the "manufaktur" option where you can customise your own DT880 edition ... colour of various parts etc ?


If the extra £250-300 is an obstacle for you then the DT880 is still a very good headphone, and amazing value for the money.

I have both the DT880 Pro and the DT1990 Pro, and my preference lies with the DT1990 - it's an all round improvement to my ears, but that in no way diminishes what I think about the DT880, which punches well above it's price point.
 
Feb 18, 2017 at 4:32 AM Post #10,680 of 12,238

Hifihedgehog

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All way too in depth for me, I just enjoy music through the DT880's. 
biggrin.gif


Looks like quite the venture you are going to take on building a high end measurement system. Good luck on that journey and I hope you find a solution that works.
beerchug.gif

My intention is to use it for a headphone and gadget review site that I am now three months behind in launching (yet I have MOT status for it; go figure). I guess I am trying for as close to perfection as I can get from the start. I'd like to get a database going and also run some virtual headphone demos. If I can get 95% of the way there to an $8000 Neumann HATS with just a souped-up DIY build, that's a huge win in my book. Trust me: I don't think about any of this stuff when I am casually listening which is 99% of the time. I agree! Often, we all need to just let go and simply enjoy the music. 
 

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