[Currawong]

The forums here are incredibly busy, with 2-3000 posts made every day. In all of that, some of the best and most amazing discussion ends up easily lost. This thread is a place for the very best posts you find (the funniest go in my other thread). Please don't start up discussion about the posts here, but do feel free to start a thread about the comments or continue the discussion in the thread where they were posted.
 
Allow me to start with one that was posted a few days ago in the thread, Would you sell your whole collection for just one SR009/amp:
 
 

My rather verbose two cents, for whatever that's actually worth.
 
I currently own over 200 pairs of headphones and earphones along with 15 different amps. If I could only own a single rig however, it would be a Stax flagship (SR-Omega, SR-007, or SR-009) and a high-end stat amp (DIYT2, BHSE, LL, or Electra). No question in my mind.
 
I've always approached this hobby from the mindset of a collector and archivist. To that end, the headphones themselves have been the object of my desire, both as a cultural artifact (their design, their context) and as different means of exploring music due to their various colorations.
 
If I were to have a single rig on the other hand, I would approach it from a completely different paradigm. The headphone I'd choose would be the one I felt best fulfilled its role as a headphone, not a cultural or personal artifact. For me this means the headphone that transmits music while not transmitting itself as much as possible, ie. the headphone that best gets out of the way and disappears (this includes wear comfort), the metaphoric window onto a recording. This isn't just a matter of frequency response however, but also listening involvement and spatial reproduction which can be highly personal factors. The Stax flagships when properly driven by a capable amp are the closest I've come to this through a pair of headphones as the vector.
 
While I personally think neutrality is a good thing, my definition of transparency has changed a bit over time. It's not necessarily a matter of neutrality, but rather it's defined in a negative sense by a lack of distraction. That's what I mean by "gets out of the way" ultimately. For some people, a neutral headphone might make its presence fully known by virtue of the fact that it's not making its presence know. Think deafening silence. A lack of coloration thus becomes a coloration. I think when one starts listening to the music and hearing past the headphones, then one has reached a state of transparency. In other words, for me transparency isn't so much an attribute as it is a process. One can listen past a pair of $20 earbuds and experience the music itself more than someone using music as a tool to feed a pair of $2k headphones. I don't think there's anything wrong with the latter however; it's merely a different set of needs and priorities.
 
For me personally, the SR-Omega, SR-007, and SR-009 have the least wrong with them and are thus the least distracting for me the most consistently. I can still enjoy music using a $20 pair of earbuds, but it's extremely circumstantial and takes a lot of effort. It's a classic case of ignorance accommodating bliss.
 
As an aside, I think there's a tendency for some head-fiers to fixate upon the "magical" quality of music. When we take part in head-fi, we enter into a symbolic order of established terminology and norms, and we're granted a language to use in speaking about our experiences and an audience for doing so. The catch is that we must distance ourselves from the immediacy of that experience to speak intelligibly about it. Our primordial enjoyment is now subjugated and contained within the order of audiophile culture. There is however a remainder left over, as it can't completely incapsulate that experience. It's felt in the discrepancies between impressions, the inadequacy of certain terms, confusion, etc.  I think on a certain level head-fiers desire to reclaim this, to recreate this pseudo-magical experience, and so they constantly chase one new product after another in an attempt to fill that void they feel, however as soon as they reach a new product---be it a new flagship IEM or miracle DAC---they discover that it's not quite "it" and so they move on to the next one. Desire is only desire insofar as it remains unfulfilled. Audiophile culture largely creates that desire with the promise of a headphone (or any other device) that truly captures the experience one longs for, truly gives the user that unbound primordial enjoyment and sense of satisfaction. Of course such a product doesn't exist, nor will it. But that's not the point. I think we know this on some level, yet we go along with it anyway, placing value in "the journey" so as to maintain our sense of order and purpose within this hobby. It's not necessarily a bad thing in that sense.
 
However I think this is perhaps the biggest obstacle for some people in having just one rig.
 

 

[gopanthersgo1]

Personally, I think that the best thing about the Head-Fi community is the fact that we all work together is some way or another to discover things, that helps form our senses of curiosity, which makes the whole journey fun and enjoyable, while helping satisfy other peoples curiosity.

 

[Currawong]

Saving this for later, as it is a brilliant summary written months ago of one of the trends on Head-Fi:
 
 

@project86, I think you posted a short time back that you felt that things had dropped off a little in the portable amp market - they may have dropped off at RSA, Meier (semi-retired) and a couple of the other 'usual suspects', but somewhere between Fiio and iBasso there seems to be a new portable (mostly DAC/amps) every month. Mike at Headfonia finally got around to reviewing Triad's L3 and I suspect that many here are eagerly awaiting the arrival of ALO's  balanced portable amp, the Rx MkIII. I also think there is a commercial future for the Objective2 if someone can put the internals into a smaller, lighter casing - my EHP-02 just isnt going to fit anyone's idea of 'portable', but then neither would the L3.
 
I dont know what TTVJ or Headamp are up to, but I suspect that we will see several new portable amps in the first quarter of 2012.

You are, of course, correct.
 
I remember saying that (though I don't recall the context) but I take it back now - the market didn't go away, just shifted. It used to be more focused on the growing state of the high-end, with everyone trying to one-up each other with balanced designs, more and more power, more and more battery life, built in DACs, socketed opamps, crossfeed, etc. Now it is more focused on good sound for a good price, in a reasonably compact enclosure. Yes, there are still some fairly expensive units on the market, but the glory days for those are gone. With iBasso launching one quality design after another for ~$200 or less, I can't see us going back to the old ways, though obviously there will be a few specialty models here and there. 
 

 

[project86]

Thanks for the quote Amos. I stand by my opinion on that comment, though I'm flexible on the $200 figure. As an example - the Leckerton UHA-6S mkII is among the best portables I've ever heard, at any price, yet sells for under $300. 
 
I'd like to add another if I may. The context is the new Abyss headphones from JPS Labs (a cable company) which are just now being unveiled at CanJam a RMAF. Price tag $5,000.

Okay, so these are 5K (thanks for the scoop anetdote)
 
This is not Stax or Sennheiser charging 5K after years of experience and major expenditure (not to mention bankruptcy in Stax's case) in the headphone arena as the pre-eminent headphones.
 
This is not Final Audio coming out with a ridiculous number and then selling 1 or 2 units.
 
This is a cable company, that, like many cable companies is well known for their markups that border on stickups trying to horn in on a "hot" high end headphone market which has just started to really breakout into mainstream audiophile publications and consciousness.  It's bad for the consumers, bad for the perception of said consumers, and bad for the hobby as a whole.
 
I'd like to do an experiment here, but it would require the passive participation of everyone on the forum:
 
Don't buy these.  Just don't.  Let's see what a concerted effort by a large forum with untested influence can do to effect a greedy outsider company that thinks it can take advantage of us.  Let's try to return a modicum of sanity to an increasingly spend-happy hobby that says more is better and new is better instead of rewarding innovation and R&D.  It's not just for us - it's for our children.  Our metaphorical children in the hobby, who may find themselves joining in 5, 10 years from now with 2K headphones being entry level high end with compromises and 10K not being out of the ordinary for "true high end" as the market sustains it.
 
Oh sure, no matter what there will be some online publications with little to no headphone experience that come out with overwhelmingly positive reviews.  But don't let that sway you.  If no one on this board buys a pair of these, it would set a precedent, an important one in a market that in many ways is still in its adolescence.  
 
It's not like this is unbearably hard.  Just don't send these guys $5,000.  
 
Do it for the kids.
 

 
Brilliant. 

 

[devouringone3]

The Themed Monthly Avatar Committee thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread
 
Because the themes they come up with are creative and hilarious! They do actually put effort into deciding every month and then making avatars for everyone.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

The Themed Monthly Avatar Committee thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread
 
Because the themes they come up with are creative and hilarious! They do actually put effort into deciding every month and then making avatars for everyone.

You're welcome. 

 

[Currawong]

Such a useful post. Sadly nobody asked for more information about it, just went back to arguing the same old points of view...
 
 

One of the things that escapes many is that things like "frequency response" and "phase linearity" make an underlying assumption that the circuit is, in EE lingo, "linear, time-invariant" -- meaning that the output from two signals at the same time is always the sum of the outputs from each of the inputs taken alone. For most real components and circuits, this is a convenient approximation. In practice, it is a usually "pretty good" approximation, but the cues and clues that our ears and brain use to perceive and localize sound can be very subtle.
 
Years ago I was working on some of the first "audiophile" CD players. We found that one of the things that dramatically improved the perceived sound quality was stiffer regulation of the power supplies. If you think about it, when you have a "sharp" sound (like a drumstick on a cymbal), you need an instant of high power. If the power supply "droops" a bit, then the "shimmer" of that cymbal might get caught up in the time that the power supply and amplifier are recovering from the hit. It would be very subtle, but that shimmer isn't anywhere as strong as the cymbal hit, and its echo in the hall are even weaker.
 
Things like "transparency" and "warm" may be the way our brains process some of the low-level differences between the ideal view of an amplifier and what it actually does with complex music. 
 
Tubes are unique things. In contrast to the microns that transistors are measured in, they are millimeters or centimeters in size. They have "grids" or "screens" that have voltage applied to them to change the current that flows through them, and they are called "screens" since they really do look like window screening. "Microphonics" originally referred to when the tube moved or was vibrated by sound, the internal components would move, and would modulate the signal they were passing. Being bigger than transistors, there is a lot more "physics" going on in how they work, so typically a lot more subtle things that they might do to a signal that they pass. 
 
Is "tube sound" better than "solid-state sound?" "What is the best stylus shape?" "Are electrostatic tweeters better than dynamic ones?" "Are hard-dome tweeters better than soft-dome?" "Do Bose 'Direct-Reflecting' speakers sound better than conventional designs?"
 
Well, maybe not that last one, but the differences between good examples of each come down to very subtle, hard to quantify things. I've ABX-ed some things that my EE training tells me shouldn't make any measurable difference, but my ears tell me otherwise. I've been very surprised, and by things other than the price tag that the item commands.
 

 

[Salm0n]

I hope it's ok for me to post here. I think this thread is a brilliant idea, and I don't want to see it die due to inactivity.
 
I'll start my post with a quick intro.
Head-Fi is a massive forum, and this is a mixed blessing:
Inevitably when a community grows so large it ends up with a terrible 'signal to noise ratio'. I'm sure anyone who watches the forums regularly has seen dozens of 'Best sub $100 headphones for bass' threads popping up, and while beginners advice is one of the things this forum is good for it does make it very difficult to find the more interesting and insightful content posted.
On the other hand, such a massive community makes for something that is rarely seen elsewhere. There are a number of small sub groups that pop up, usually circulating around one or two threads, that have a very specific niche topic(for lack of a better word). Groups like these are almost impossible to form on other forums because of numbers - if there are only 5 or 6 people on Head-Fi who are interested you wont find anyone on much smaller forums.
 
My personal favourite of these sub groups is the DIY Electrostatic guys. They can be found here. I'd like to post a quote, but really the whole thread is great.
If you're interested in seeing the design process in action, learning more about headphones acoustics and construction, looking for a place to start your own DIY Electrostats (or indeed using the info here to help you with the design of any headphone) or if you just want to see some cool headphones made by some cool people, you should deffinitly check out this thread.
 
EDIT:Spelling

 

[bowei006]

I, Honorable Panda of Head-Fi wish to place my bid on The Best of Head-Fi on the Official Anime Thread and the TMAC thread.

 

[Currawong]

Tightening the screw that holds the headband and gimble together on the Fostex TH900s.
 
 

Alright, I have decided to perform a small operations and take some pictures. So here you go on a step by step procedures on tightening back the screws. You will need a phillip screw driver (the one you use for glasses), some cloth or paper towel to prevent scratches of the cups and a very calm mind. The whole procedures took me about 10 mins.
 
EDIT: You can actually turn the leather pad anti-clockwise to remove the pad. Push it tight and turn it anticlockwise.- Thanks namaiki for sharing. So now just skip straight to step 6 and finish at step 12 and then put the pads back.
 
1) Pinch on to the base of the pad and slide out the leather pad with your thumb.
 

 
 
 
2) Pull out the leather pad
 

 
 
 
3) Leather pad removed in 5 secs
 

 
 
 
4) The white plastic ring is the one that holds the pad. Do not remove the white plastic ring.
 

 
 
 
 
5) Pull out the round grey sponge. Its not glue or attach to anything.
 

 
 
 
6) There are 4 screws around the cups, removed all four.
 

 
 
7) You will need a small phillip (+) srew driver .. the same one you use to tighten your glasses. Its a phillip screw head.
 

 
 
8) Ok cups come off exposing the driver. Notice that there is some cotton material in the cups... don't loose that..
 

 
 
9) By now, you should have all 3 items removed... don't loose the screw or you're screwed 

.
 

 
 
 
10) Notice the srew driver is not perpendicular to the screw. I actually remove the screw bit to shorten it.
 

 
 
 
 
11) By using the screwbit without the driver, I can actually do it perpendicular to aviod destroying the phillip screw head. you can still screw it at an angle, just don't screw so hard or it will mess up the thread. Below are my screw bits
 

 
 
12)  Time to box it back. Put the screw first and place cup over it. If you place cup first, the holes on the driver and cup is pretty hard to get it align right. Once one screw is in, the rest of the holes will align itself. - WARNING - do not screw hard, gently screw until it stop. Use baby strength  
 

 
 
13) Once all 4 screws are secure to the cup, slide the leather pad edge onto the white plastic. I use the screw bit and make a small gap so I can slide in the pads easily.
 

 
 
 
14) The pads took me about 3 mins. The trick is to pinch the leather ring, pull up a little and "hook" it onto the white plastic ring. Once each section is done, slide the screw bit forward and repeat until the last inch. Removed the screw bit and do a final "pinch up" and "hook it in.
 

 
 
 
15) Align the leather pad so that the horizontal lines on the pad is near the bolt. You can pull the pad to rotate it.
 
 

 
 
16) Now its all box back without a scratch.
 

 
 
 
17) Sit back and enjoy a cup of coffee with Miles Davis.
 

 
 
Misson accomplished..
 

 

[Currawong]

Just an FYI, and yes - I am a MOT and I am biased.  However, I'm not a designer - nothing I sell is anything I can call my own except for case design.  Instead, I actively seek out designers and their designs that show outstanding promise and potential.  With their blessing, I build their designs myself, listen to them and if I agree with them that the potential is there, actively promote, market and sell those designs.
 
In the 6+ years of doing this, I've run hundreds of RMAA tests on the stuff I build.  Yeah, I know - you-know-who says RMAA is worthless.  IMHO, as long as you're using it as a comparison under the same conditions, I've neither read nor heard anything that discounts RMAA under those circumstances.
 
Here's the funny thing: I have an M-Audio Transit that I've used for years in testing amps and DACs.  It measures better than any DAC I've ever built, better than any DAC that cetoole, Dsavitsk, cobaltmute or others have designed.  That includes the Alien DAC, BantamDAC, GrubDAC, SkeletonDAC, and pupDAC, among other, more sophisticated DACs.  The M-Audio Transit has better measurements than all of them - that's why it's used as the reference in my testing.  Hell, the M-Audio Transit measures an entire magnitude better than the ODAC in harmonic distortion and crosstalk - on my own equipment!  The only reason it may not register better in noise/dynamic ratio is my own crapty testing environs (everyone else who tests the same things I build get better numbers).  The reported specs on the M-Audio Transit are better in noise than the ODAC and only slightly worse in dynamic range.  And of course - it's been 24-bit USB ever since it came out - in 2003 and sold for $75.
 
All that said about the M-Audio Transit, I would never, ever, use it as a source compared to the other DACs mentioned when I want to listen to music.
 
Wonder why that would be?
 

 

[wink]

Quote:

All that said about the M-Audio Transit, I would never, ever, use it as a source compared to the other DACs mentioned when I want to listen to music.
 
Wonder why that would be?
 

I give up, Why.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Quote:

All that said about the M-Audio Transit, I would never, ever, use it as a source compared to the other DACs mentioned when I want to listen to music.
 
Wonder why that would be?
 

I give up, Why.

 
Because the sound out of it is awful.
 
Anyway, here's another one from the "Have you found your headphone nirvana yet?" thread:
 
 

One of the reasons is that on average, people who listen to hip-hop have far, far lower income than people who listen to classical.
Which means that, on average, they have far worse systems for reproduction of music.
 
One other reason is that, on average, classical people understand musical nuances far, far, far better than hip-hop people.

 
I have to disagree here.  You're making a musical assessment, hip hop and classical are cultural arts.  They exist in the cultures which create and support them.  It's a subjective assessment as to who gets it and who doesn't.  We enjoy and appreciate what we like.
 
Hip hop and jazz have a lot in common.  Both are, for the most part, spontaneous conversations.  That's where the excitement and artistry lies in both genres.  The rhythm section lays out the scene for this conversation, and the artist lays his thought over it.  Now I doubt all hip hoppers, and mixologists understand it on that level, but it's the basis of jazz.  
 
Jazz, blues, and rock themselves have roots going back to the cotton fields of the slave-ridden south.  Call and response music and chanting between slave workers evolved into these conversations between instruments-- and in the case of rap-- cutting competitions between artists.  Ragtime and dueling pianos -- much the same thing.  Show me what you've got to say-- oh-- but stay in key and keep time!  There's a thread which unites all modern music, and its roots aren't pretty.  
 
Classical compositions share some of these characteristics as well.  Stay with me here.  The difference being the conversations were between the composers rather than the musicians.  Listen to Bartok's Music for Strings and tell me it's not a deconstructed 2nd movement from Beethoven's 9th.  It's Bartok reaching out across two generations and advancing an emotion Beethoven introduced a century earlier.  
 
Beethoven couldn't have composed his masterpieces had Mozart not preceded him.  Beethoven took Mozart's palette and painted his own works with it.  It's cutting on a higher plane.  Compare passages between Beethoven's 5th and Mozart's 40th symphonies and you begin to see what I'm talking about.
 
I guess what I'm saying is open up your minds a little.  You don't have to enjoy something to appreciate its value.  I don't have much hip hop in my collection, but I understand from where it comes, and why so many appreciate the genre.  Who am I to tell someone they don't have taste?  They just don't share my taste.
 

 

[Currawong]

From the Koss ESP 950 thread:
 
 

 
I'm guessing no one will be able to answer this, but has anyone compared these to hifiman and audeze orthos or the D7000's? I'm still trying to get a grip on the quality of sound these produce. They don't seem to measure as well as the higher end orthos, but the reviews of them usually praise them for their sound quality.

 
I have Audeze LCD-2's, HiFiMan HE-6's, and Denon AH-D7000's, as well as Koss ESP-950s, Stax SR-007 Mk1 and Stax Lambda Signature, along with a number of amps, DACs and so on.
 
The LCD-2's have the bass I like best- perfect texture and "slam" as well as extended, flat response. The LCD-2's also have very good mids and treble that is recessed.  Above the midrange, the LCD-2's are not masters of detail.
 
The HE-6's offer more treble detail, and fine bass, but are not the equal of the LCD-2's in bass definition.
 
The AH-D7000's have the most bass, that's all I can say about them.
 
The SR-007's offer the most neutral sound of any headphone I've heard. Nothing is emphasized; detail is present only when there is detail in the signal. With bass-centric tracks, these 'phones don't deliver the bass perfection of the Audeze, but the bass is not lacking. Their mids and treble are beyond reproach.
 
The Lambda Signatures are famous for an upper midrange / low treble 'etch' which IS quite noticeable, but I like listening to them anyway because they offer a lot of detail (sometimes they have a little TOO MUCH emphasis on detail, this is the nature of the 'etch.') Bass is extended and clean, but not as satisfying as the LCD-2's.
 
The Koss ESP-950's have a quite different 'voice' from the Stax, but you can tell from their smoothness and top-to-bottom detail that they are an electrostatic high-end phone.  They have more bass 'slam' than any other electrostatic, but they do not have the 'taut depth' of the LCD-2's.  Compared to the Stax, the Koss tend to be a little warmer and have a bit more midrange 'presence,' but the detail in the mids and treble are definitely electrostatic in character- that is to say, there's an addictive transparency to all electrostatic headphones that I have not heard in any dynamic or planar headphone- ( the Sennheiser HD800 comes closest, but doesn't quite achieve a cigar.)  
 
If I had to choose ONE of these headphones, it would be the Koss ESP-950.  With it's better 'slam' and warmth, it is a little closer to an "all round' headphone than the Stax, and it offers a transparency that the dynamic and planar headphones just can't match.
 
If I was an absolute basshead and the number one most important thing I wanted was bass quality/punch/depth, then I'd have to go with the LCD-2.  However, as much as I like the effortless extension and mastery of bass texture offered by the Audeze, I find I can live with the bass from the Koss- which is "only" excellent compared to the "without peer" bass of the LCD-2; in addition to bass that is extended and tuneful, if not quite the equal of the LCD-2, the Koss offers greater mid and treble transparency than the LCD-2.  I'm addicted to that transparency.
 

 

[Currawong]

From the Final Audio Design thread, some interesting discussion:
 
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
...i think the comments of the person [emailing] you speaks volumes of how terrible is ability is to hear quality sound reproduction, no matter how esoteric that is.

 
Not really sure that is the case here. FWIW, this is how I see it and will use an analogy to illustrate what I mean: I reside in a country whose food is regarded as some of the best in the planet (or so the experts say, and I happen to agree with said experts). Now, people here are simply not generally interested in trying food from other ('more exotic') countries. To them, given the choice, such food is "crap" or just not good enough. I, for instance, happen to appreciate some good curry, and I'm not talking about the 'English' variety, but curry Indian people themselves would have/enjoy (though I've never been to India) — I enjoy very spicy food. There was an authentic Mexican restaurant (not Tex-Mex) here a while ago which was absolutely brilliant, with a real Mexican chef (not a cook, ie authentic quality Mexican food being served). The place closed after 2 years; when I asked the (Mexican) owner why, he said the locals were not interested in his food and it was mostly foreigners who appreciated it — apparently not enough foreigners to keep him going.
 
I suppose to this fellow experienced HF'er, the SR-009s / HD800s are the equivalent of fine French food, and the PF IXs perhaps more like some 'exotic' but wrong-tasting food, or for all you know, maybe worse, just a cheap burger and chips fried in recycled oil! I think his comments were far too harsh but I could understand where he was coming from. No biggie in my book. He loves fine French cuisine only. I love fine French, Spanish, Italian, Indian, Mexican,...and even some fine English cuisine (yes, there seems to be such thing as fine English food!)
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
You post comes at an interesting time for a couple of reasons for me. One is that only today I was reading Sterophile and the reviewer of whom I have a lot of regard was bemoaning how peoples Idea of what good bass is nowadays is so far off what good bass is that it is almost painful. Like everything in this modern world it is extremes that matter more it seems rather than subtleties

 
I agree there's a tendency for extreme / enhanced bass in today's popular music, but I can't help feeling there's a bit of snobbery in comments like the one from Stereophile.
 
Now, I listen to plenty of classical music, but I generally don't enjoy the atmosphere around classical concerts and even the behaviour / attitude expected /demanded of classically trained musicians when performing in public. As much as I dislike most (popular) music I hear around me, there's still 'good' music even in such genres as hip hop or even your Pop Idol type of music. Also, let's not forget a lot of this is a cultural thing, or perhaps now, thanks to globalisation, a sign of the times. Take Punk rock, for instance; it's not my favourite type of music, either, but it was fresh at the time, a necessary shock to some of the music that had become a joke with bands like ELP and Yes, perhaps even The Stones or Led Zeppelin — to this day I find Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols a brilliant track. Unfortunately, the Punk movement kinda took over in Britain's popular music culture for a while, which then led to the so-called Indie type of music, and suddenly some very good music became maligned, buried, mocked, not allowed to surface. The English music press, very good in the past, started to become 'decadent', pretentious and...absolutely empty. Oh, all those egos...
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Personally in life I have found the subtle moments far more profound than the wiz bang moments. The PF's for me are in the subtle camp, just like a good horn speaker and low powered SET amp they will not wow with pyrotechnics but they will draw you in even though you may feel that is madness. The Norm now is that the population en masse has become so desensitized that only wiz bang will work!

On the whole, I'm with you on this one. The PFs for me, in a way, are rather unassuming yet very true, with a quality to them that simply draws me in unexpected and mysterious ways.
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Of late I have become somewhat despondent with this forum. This is in the main for me because it seems that what is normal now is the norm here and I swear a great many people simply have no idea what natural or realistic sound is anymore. If it is not pumping earth shattering bass or treble to cut glass with then a headphone is crap or it is rolled off or it is bass light and for me the article I read this morning really made me realize this here.

 
I share your sentiment here. Even though I have the HD600 & HD800 (and V200), I have no intention of posting in the full-sized headphones forum (or amps forum) — I don't like what I see there. Then again, I don't like a lot of what I see in this forum, either, but I still feel more at home here, even if I post on very few threads.
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
The second part is that because the PF's for me have changed how I listen to music, how I appreciate it, brought me back to how i used to listen BCD (Before CD!) I sought out a closed back full sized headphone for the days when I needed isolation. After searching and listening I ended up the the Beyerdynamic T5P. A headphone that when I got it and exchanged PM's with a local member the response was, "Arn't they too bright and no bass?" A response I have seen all to often here and to my ears absolute nonsense!

On Sunday I decided to do back to back listening between the 5P's and the PF's. It confirmed what I had hoped, that I found in a closed headphone something almost the same in terms of musical engagement and emotion.
I have begun to realize that natural round here means extensions in the frequency ranges, almost to comical levels. Its like everyone is on MSG!

 
In my case, the HD800 is the #1 phone, followed by the K3003 — meaning that if forced to choose one or two, those would be my choices. None of these sound remotely close to the PF IXs, but it seems I need my PF IXs, like I need orange marmalade and a double macchiato with my breakfast, something I can't do without (perhaps not the best analogy).
 

Originally Posted by ianmedium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Now, before the pitchforks come out let me say, if MSG is your thing hey, great more power to you but do not for one minute tell me MSG is good or the way all things should be. If we move to far away from a non exagerated sound we will end up as we have where people cannot hear a difference between compressed music and uncompressed music.
 
Headphones it seems have gone the way of reality TV round here, if its not in your face, if its not extreme or shocking then it ain't good.

 
Now, I think that's taking things a bit too far (the MSG thing), but I think I can see where you're coming from. I definitely agree many people don't recognise good sound, or even the sound of real instruments (!), but I think there are some pretty good phones out there that render music very adequately. Probably my first recommendation to someone seeking an excellent sounding IEM—and not spend a fortune in the process—would be the excellent Sony MDR-7550 (which can now be found somewhere in Europe for 150 euros — no "pyrotechnics" here, just brilliant sonics all round and a type of sound that's not very coloured at all, ie a very faithful sounding phone, in my view, and a completely ignored and neglected phone at that, at least here on HF.