[tvnosaint]

I wish this thread was still alive but with a more positive tilt. I agree with the op. Those akgs have dope dynamics. If my planars had the attack / dynamics of the akg q701 I have , it would be game over. Cheers Brat

 

[donthuang]

Limited to dynamic headphone, I think AKG K812 have better dynamic range and micro-dynamic than T1 and HD800

 

[edstrelow]

I wish this thread was still alive but with a more positive tilt. I agree with the op. Those akgs have dope dynamics. If my planars had the attack / dynamics of the akg q701 I have , it would be game over. Cheers Brat

Limited to dynamic headphone, I think AKG K812 have better dynamic range and micro-dynamic than T1 and HD800

Have a look at my thread on mechanical damping of headphones.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials

Damping the vibrations in the earcups has a major impact on sound quality, especially dynamics and tonal accuracy. I am mainly adding sorbothane pieces to areas inside the earcups, but other materials and approaches are being tried. Sennheiser appears to be using some kind of stiff plastic in its headband to dampen vibrations while Grado claims to have a proprietary polycarbonate material in its e-series. This is a new concept in headphone construction driven by the availability of new materials. I expect to see more of this although some companies will probably resist the change. The thing with sorb is that you can add it to any phone. I sorbed a $2 set of earbuds and was amazed at what this did for the sound.

 

[arnaud]

"This is a new concept in headphone construction...".

Come on, can you stop the delusion with this sortho pooping in every thread you can find? It's getting more ridiculous as we go, you're now saying that this is the future of headphone construction rofl!

 

[tvnosaint]

Sounds crazy. Science stuff .ill check that out. I'm not willing to screw with my zmf omnis but tge he560 is really neglected these days.
I listen to the omni almost exclusively now but I miss the punch of my dynamic hps sometimes. Looking into the thx00. I don't feel I can afford the k812 but I'd sure like to hear one to put my thrift to the test. The hd800 I've never heard with an amp recommended for it. It still sounded very good to me on the Lyr at the time. Poor guy that had it was using a matrix 1. Dull, lifeless thing. I'm still looking for a new dynamic hp that can compete with the omni but deliver the dynamics. Omni is no slouch at all. The difference seems so subtle but when it is there it gives me that oooh yeah

 

[paradoxper]

Sorb is just like polishing a turd.

 

[edstrelow]

"This is a new concept in headphone construction...".

Come on, can you stop the delusion with this sortho pooping in every thread you can find? It's getting more ridiculous as we go, you're now saying that this is the future of headphone construction rofl!

If you remember, you told me about the Sennheiser damping their headbands. Damping is a big deal, bigger than any I have encountered in my days in audiophilia. While you may discount my experiments you cannot ignore the fact that two major manufacturers are working on damping.

I stand by what I am doing. You would be better off investing $6.00 in some sorb and trying it out for yourself instead of standing with the crowd that insists the only improvements to be made to high end phones are by investing thousands in upgraded amplifiers.

 

[arnaud]

Yep, I know what I told you and agree that ringing of some structural parts of a heaphone is something that needs to be avoided.

Now, recommending sorbo to every single headphone user out there is just like giving the same medical prescription to any patient because you found it worked well on some of them.

Sticking sorbo pads inside an headphone can mess up the tuning if the void is used to acoustically load the driver (and it most often is...), it adds acoustic absorption that may not necesseraly help. When applied to the exterior of a housing, it can also negatively affect the response of an open back headphone because you're altering the shape of the baffle (hence the acoustic loading on the driver). It's got potentially near zero influence on the mechanical damping depending on the receiving structure dynamics.

Keeping with the medical analogy, there is a good reason why people go see doctors who will diagnose illness before prescribing a given medication and make sure there won't be harmful side effects to the given patient.

On the other hand, you're like a sorcerer's apprentice with all this. You do not seem to grasp how intrusive your recommendations are nor can you scientifically highlight why and where it needs to be applied, hence simply recommending to put slabs of if every where you possibly can as it "most typically helps".

This, edstrelow, is why your systematic posts on sorbo grt annoying after a while, especially when you start to make claims that headphone manufacturers are starting to catch up with you revolutionary thoughts.

Arnaud

 

[Frihed89]

Dynamics are generally better on professional monitoring headphones, but they can be pretty revealing and not that coherent.  I've listened to many in studio gear/guitar shops, but can't say which models.  I was just curious.  None i listened to cost more than about $500 (Shure as i recall) and there were many in the $100-$200 range, I think AKG and Sennheiser).  Maybe there are some pro gear threads here?
 
I'd never buy a flagship headphone without listening to it on my rig, first.  The ones i have tried didn't appeal to my sensibilities.  I am an HD650 fan, but the HD600 is supposedly more neutral.  I have no problems with the dynamics of the HD 650s on Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius and Ives symphonies.  The strong suit of the HD650 is that it the bass, mids and treble are unified more coherently than on the planar magnetic headphones I've listened to. Of course, not everyone would agree.

 

[edstrelow]

Yep, I know what I told you and agree that ringing of some structural parts of a heaphone is something that needs to be avoided.

Now, recommending sorbo to every single headphone user out there is just like giving the same medical prescription to any patient because you found it worked well on some of them.

Sticking sorbo pads inside an headphone can mess up the tuning if the void is used to acoustically load the driver (and it most often is...), it adds acoustic absorption that may not necesseraly help. When applied to the exterior of a housing, it can also negatively affect the response of an open back headphone because you're altering the shape of the baffle (hence the acoustic loading on the driver). It's got potentially near zero influence on the mechanical damping depending on the receiving structure dynamics.

Keeping with the medical analogy, there is a good reason why people go see doctors who will diagnose illness before prescribing a given medication and make sure there won't be harmful side effects to the given patient.

On the other hand, you're like a sorcerer's apprentice with all this. You do not seem to grasp how intrusive your recommendations are nor can you scientifically highlight why and where it needs to be applied, hence simply recommending to put slabs of if every where you possibly can as it "most typically helps".

This, edstrelow, is why your systematic posts on sorbo grt annoying after a while, especially when you start to make claims that headphone manufacturers are starting to catch up with you revolutionary thoughts.

Arnaud

Some of your points are ok but you are also misrepresenting some of what I have been doing.  
 
Certainly there is a lot of flying by the seat of one's pants here but that reflects the the lack of of knowledge and understanding of the damping phenomenon. Even with some companies working on damping issues, I have yet to see anyone able or willing to explain this other than what I have done.  When I first started on this I simply noticed that the sound of a Stax SR-007 changed  in an odd way simply by touching the headband.    I could find nothing in discussion on this forum that explained this.  It simply should not have made any difference but it did.  But skipping  a lot of investigation by me and others and which can be seen in other threads:
 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials  and   
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/671314/stax-sr007-resonance-problems
 
it came down to vibrational energy from the drivers.  I am not  just talking about resonant ringing although that is something which may also be damped with substances like sorbothane.  Simple Newtonian physics tells us that there is equal and opposite energy going into the earcups because the driver is attached to it.  Newton also tells us that energy cannot be created or destroyed so that which gets into the cups has to dissipate somehow.  Sorbothane claims their materials convert the energy to heat. 
 
Last year I spent two days at the Canjam in Southern California demonstrating this work and of the hundred or so who came by, not even a handful said they could not hear a  difference. I also spoke to about 5-6 people who claimed to be working on similar issues, sometimes indicating they were professionals in the field but sometimes not identifying who they were.  I also remember one guy came by with his badge tucked under so it couldn't be read. But one who said he was a mechanical engineer said my explanation sounded right to him because sometimes the simplest is the best.  Is anyone in the field following me, I don't know.  Certainly Stax isn't and that's their problem.  They make excellent phones but they are obsolete in this respect  and that is disappointing.   I acknowledged  Sennheiser's'  prior work as soon as you told me about it.    I even put up a poster of their work at my table at Canjam.   However anyone can do their own diy work with sorbothane or whatever you want to try.   
 
 

 
I see this work  as an extension of what we have been doing with loudspeakers.  We generally make the cases heavy,  fill them with sand, put sorbothane footers, fasten then to the floor or walls  or use spikes.  However most of this, other than using damping materials like sorbothane, can't be done with headphones.  
 
However none of this would matter if sorbothane damping didn't produce sonic benefits, but it does, so far on every phone I have tried whether electrostatic or dynamic and other people have made similar claims.   Does it work all the time? No, but I have documented some phones that have given me troublesome anomalies,  but I have eventually managed to get what I considered considerable improvements on all that I have worked with.   It is easy to experiment with and all  unlike many other tweaks, easily reversed since sorb is easy to remove.  Its also cheap. You can get a 3 by 3 inch sheet of self-stick 1/4 inch 70 duro (my current recommendation) shipped  for $6.00. 
 
Why wasn't this discovered before?  I suggest that we didn't have the damping materials until recently.  The Stax Lambda series, still on Stax' current product line  was released before sorbothane was  patented.  And other companies are now working on other materials. I expect to see more widespread adoption of these techniques over the next few years.
 
And as far as this thread is concerned,  dynamics are one of the big benefits of this treatment.