That hobby is a curse.

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by FastAndClean, Oct 29, 2017.
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  1. ev13wt
    As predicted a month or two ago.

    Sad that you don't want to learn about how stuff works man. :/ Bummer, dude.

    He also said:

    “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” (c) Mark Twain
  2. bigshot
    Goo bye!!!!!!
  3. swesko
    the problem this site is full of people hyping up stuff and the people who dont have access to audio stores where they can try on different gear fall for the. Also, people will just keep buying stuff thinking the higher the price the better the sound, which can be true sometimes but to some extent. I for one bought the W40 for 500 USD hought they sounded great then bought the W60 for 1k USD and i was blown away and thought to myself this is it. Ket reading about other 12-18 drivers BA for 2-3k thinking wow they must be on anotehr level so i bought a 1500USD W80 and while they do sound better, the enhancement is minor and i'm sure the 64audio a18 wont sound much better. Then you have people talking about cables and DACs and different audio formats, it sounds as if the guys sell this stuff to us or they just want to believe that stuff makes a difference. I bought the Mojo, it sounds ok, it adds a little punch but its not worth 600USD, i have all audio formats of teh same albums, from FLAC to 24-192 to MQA to DSD128 and believe tehy all sound alike. I can tell teh difefrence eqsily beween a Flac and a 320KBS mp3, so my ears are fine, however the other formats are just a mean to get money out of our pockets. The new trendy subject is MQA, i have the PIONEER 300R which reads MQA, i have few albums in high rez and MQA, and they sound exactly the same!!!some people just have more money to burn than others and want to justify their expensive purchases, so they try everything to make you buy that stuff. Dont fall for it. im not investing nymore in audio gear as im very happy with what i have, i'm scaling down, selling the mojo and other DAcs i have
    JaeYoon, ev13wt and 71 dB like this.
  4. 71 dB
    Copper: 1.68*10^-8 Ωm
    Silver: 1.59*10^-8 Ωm

    So, the resistance of silver is about 5 % smaller than that of copper.

    Impedance matching is important when the length of the cable is not "very short" compared to the wavelenghts of the signal. In the cable the signal travels about 2/3 of the speed of light, so about 2*10^8 m/s. The highest frequency in audio is 20 kHz giving the shortest wavelength.

    wavelength = speed / frequency = (2*10^8 m/s / 2*10^4 1/s) = 10 000 m or about 6 miles. So, as long as your cable is much shorter than 6 miles, you don't need impedance matching. Typical headphone cables are 6 feet. Not 6 miles. Since the leght of the cable is "very short" compared to the shortest waveleghts, there is not problems transmitting power and the "ideal" cable has zero impedance.
    ev13wt likes this.
  5. castleofargh Contributor
    it's a matter of magnitude and also a matter of using the proper stuff for the proper job. audiophiles can have an amp fed on 15V and decide that if they use 18V it sounds better. and then getting reinforced by the idea that "more is better" has never let them down, they might want to try 20V? 50V? 200V? I'd say to those guys what they tell me all the time, "just listen!":imp:. "you haven't tried so you can't talk!":imp:. they'll realize it was a dumb idea soon enough. and maybe this time they'll learn something for a change.

    you can play that little game with everything, at least as long as you don't mind what happens to the other variables. want a cable with super duper low impedance? that's easy, use a big fat wire or many small ones. if you think you've changed the world by using a wire made of 1.2mm of silver instead of 1.2mm of copper, that's great. the impact on the circuit if the damping ratio between amp and headphone is good(as should be), should stay below 0.1db even in the trebles(can't talk for 50khz though if that's your stuff). and I know that because I've studied the arcanes of ohm's law(imagine smoke coming out of the ground and my eyes glowing). so yeah, less than 0.1dB being what any researcher considers insignificant in a listening test, many people tend to see that as irrelevant. sorry.
    but what's making it even less relevant is how copper would have reached the same impedance with a diameter of about 1.3mm instead of 1.2mm(mind blown!). those are the kind of stuff you guys try to pass as important and worth a lot of money. it's your money and your sense of significance, but don't be surprised when others find it irrelevant for typical audio use. and don't be mad when you don't have a good damping ratio between the amp and the headphone and we refuse to consider that as a normal situation.
    this is only about impedance, but we can play that game with any electrical variable. we have a standard, or the manufacturer picked a specific cable for his own reasons(like tuning something). from then, we can stay close to that standard and do what the circuit was intended for. or we can go and try all the weird stuff we can get our hands on to see what happens. as there is an unlimited number of ways to do something wrong, no doubt some will have an audible impact. just because you don't break something by doing it wrong, doesn't mean you're doing it right.

    the snake oil part has nothing to do with wires and what they can do. it's a domain well understood. snake oil has to do with silly attributes that people stick onto a given cable, as if it was an active component that would make all headphones using all amps sound different in the same way, and push the soundstage and tighten the bass and blablablah. give me those headphone cables and I can demonstrate that a different amp and headphones can have a different impact, or no audible impact at all on a third combo. or maybe I'd just end up demonstrating that the other cable you were comparing it to, was just a defective cable. who knows, you guys never control anything, being so strong in the ear and all.
    what's tragic is that many people think finding one cable that messes the sound under a specific set of circumstances is evidence that they were right to spend a lot on cables. as if any exception in life was a rule, and statistics meant nothing at all.
    those who want to understand cables just have to learn a little more electricity. those who want to make big claims, have to start by understanding the limits of anecdotal evidence.

    now if you excuse me I need to go adjust my bass and soundstage enhancer. some call it volume knob. I also have this amazing thing called EQ, it's like audibly different headphone cable, but a thousand of them available in one tool.
    ev13wt and WoodyLuvr like this.
  6. gregorio
    If this hobby is a curse, you have two options besides just giving it up: 1. Learn a bit about how the equipment actually works, target your purchasing to those areas which actually make a difference and be far less cursed OR 2. Continue believing in all the marketing myths, continue being cursed and STOP bleating about it because it's your choice to believe all the nonsense!

    This is a perfectly safe place for audio addiction, in fact, it's a far safer place than any other place on head-fi. BUT, you are NOT talking/arguing about an audio addiction, you're talking about an addiction to audiophile marketing lies/myths and for that addiction this is indeed not a "safe place"!

    bfreedma, ev13wt and WoodyLuvr like this.
  7. Whazzzup
    I unsubscribed but got this post anyways and would just like to reply. I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread. I thought this hobby we are cursed with this addiction for more audio gear, new gear, and multiple sets of said gear.
    I didn’t realize this was another debunk thread that we are being duped in some ways that that contributes to us being cursed and buying not only to much or two expensive gear, but unnecessary snake oil gear as well.
    This is NOT why I came to this thread, I am unconcerned about being debunked, really don’t wish to participate in a witch hunt on what’s worth it in this industry. This is not the safety and compadre I was seeking in my original posts and try to emphasize the psychological components, and how I tamed the beast. But I’m here again because I am addicted to this hobby, I read, research, and entertain myself here.
    Now that’s that is all cleared up, if this thread becomes a community of assistance and not persecution of what folks feel is incorrect knowledge, then I’ll mozy back, enjoy your music, whazzy out.
    WoodyLuvr likes this.
  8. gregorio
    You seem to be confused. The purpose of this sub-forum is NOT to assist your addiction to buying snake oil. This community provides assistance to audiophiles by persecuting the snake oil and it's marketing, thereby helping audiophiles to make more informed choices to fullfil their love of audio. If you have a love of audio, this is a good, safe place to be, if instead you love snake oil, you'll feel safer elsewhere! The cables forum for example.

    ev13wt and WoodyLuvr like this.
  9. WoodyLuvr
    I love witch hunts! Though sometimes I do find myself tied to a stake and burning...
    bigshot and ev13wt like this.
  10. Whazzzup
    you just stated again my exact misinterpretation of this thread and that somehow the witch hunt for snake oil is the cure for an audio addiction or curse. yes it all doesn't matter and we would be happier with ear buds and a phone, no thx. I thought this may be more root behaviour driven, but if exposing the man behind the curtain is the real cure, then feel free. There are lots of threads with hands being thrown up in its all a rip off, here is another fine.
    Audioholic123 likes this.
  11. ev13wt
    You just don't want to get it, huh?
    You keep chasing that dragon of yours, while I pet mine.

    First goal in curing anything is to take the cause away. Your cause is your unwavering belief in reviews and tests and forums.

    This causes you to believe in "the earth is flat, just look." All threads and posts about the earth being round are batted away by you.

    We are a bunch of idiots. Ok then. Without you buying overpriced crap, we might not be able to hang out here, missing revenue for forum fuel. So thank you, and keep buying cables!
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  12. Whazzzup
    Ok now I'm the cause or an example of whats wrong with your behaviours. Real nice friendly zone for us addicts. I quite frankly get what you think is your problem. I started out bringing up the psychological reasons for collectors. Im extremely happy and my gear sounds great, yes it can be a rabbit hole, I'm not buying more "overpriced crap" but feel free to sling arrows around at posters that do, I'm sure this will help out why this thread was started. Good day, i hope you discover whats behind the curtain so we can all benefit from that.
    cheers i keep hitting unsubscribe but i keep getting post replies, sheesh.
  13. gregorio
    You are NOT talking about an audio addiction, you are talking about an addiction to buying snake oil and you have an addiction to snake oil because you apparently don't realise it's snake oil. I don't know of anyone who knows it's snake oil and is still addicted to buying it! Therefore, demonstrating that something is snake oil, would be a likely cure for a snake oil addiction. Not a difficult concept to grasp is it?

    ev13wt likes this.
  14. jmills8
    In my youth I collected women as Audiophikes collect audio gear. Once I got old say 47 yrs old I got married and stopped collecting women. Then I became an Audiophile : buying then quickly reading articles which made me thirsty to buy something better then reading some more then buying more. Then after watching money fly away I realized what I, Me likes. I built of confidence inowing what sort of over all sound I enjoy. Now my money and time ate not flying away. Im content with 90% of my auduo gear.
    JaeYoon, ev13wt and Whazzzup like this.
  15. Whazzzup
    How do you know what snake oil if any I'm addicted to and why has this become about myself. I have not bought a cable in years and have not bought one thats not in use. So we should change the title to snake oil curse come and be exposed to your fake audio addiction.
    again not that there is anything wrong about pursuing snake oil and if that makes you stop buying more of it than great, enjoy. personally i think its a partial red hearing to what ones real issues are, and trying to rationalize this is obfiscation of the truth.
    sorry if i made myself a target of the pitchfork and torch crowd....
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