GearMe
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
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That would be Joey.when in an argument, the one to win is the one who can eat the most boiled eggs.
No exotic unobtainium required - but only the best possible that can be obtained and would phisically fit into available volume.
After SMD became predominant, things started going downhill ; best dialectric materials can not stand temperatures for SMD soldering, particularly not after non lead solder became mandatory according to RoHS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive
So, no present production using SMD is likely to be built with the best materials of the pre SMD trough hole times.
Anecdotes are not appropriate as evidence.
when in an argument, the one to win is the one who can eat the most boiled eggs.
Read the article and come back. You are creating your own conclusion.
What is happening here is we have a careful study that has crossed every T and dotted every I and it points clearly to the conclusion that a couple of people don't want to accept. They can't acknowledge it, so every time it's mentioned or a link is posted, they pad out the thread with irrelevant blather to push the test back to an older page. They don't want this thread to be about tests and results. They want it to be about them and their opinions. When they flurry post their incorrect conclusions to a thread about scientific facts, they feel that it validates them. The arguing back and forth gives them attention and feeds their egp. They can't just let the facts speak for themselves. They have to inject themselves into it. That approach rarely arrives at the truth. It's why this thread is packed with lots of abstract unproven theories, harebrained wive's tales and logical fallacies instead of facts and solid practical advice.
I wish people would let go of their own ego and just talk about sound science and how it applies to putting together a great home audio system. That's the purpose of this forum. But it often gets forgotten.
What is happening here is we have a careful study that has crossed every T and dotted every I and it points clearly to the conclusion that a couple of people don't want to accept. They can't acknowledge it, so every time it's mentioned or a link is posted, they pad out the thread with irrelevant blather to push the test back to an older page. They don't want this thread to be about tests and results. They want it to be about them and their opinions. When they flurry post their incorrect conclusions to a thread about scientific facts, they feel that it validates them. The arguing back and forth gives them attention and feeds their egp. They can't just let the facts speak for themselves. They have to inject themselves into it. That approach rarely arrives at the truth. It's why this thread is packed with lots of abstract unproven theories, harebrained wive's tales and logical fallacies instead of facts and solid practical advice.
I wish people would let go of their own ego and just talk about sound science and how it applies to putting together a great home audio system. That's the purpose of this forum. But it often gets forgotten.
haha, you're a funny guy Keith.
"Sure, that A-Bomb detonated perfectly, but that was just one atom splitting under one specific set of circumstances. Who knows if that will be true of all other atoms. There might be an atom out there somewhere that won't detonate under even the exact same set of circumstances. Soooo....who knows right? Can't really draw any meaningful conclusions from that at all."
I’m willing to read your posts, but you NEED to start producing the evidence you repeatedly claim to have. Anecdotes are not appropriate as evidence.
First we get the absolutist statement "we can't know anything because we can't know everything". (Unless we test every human on earth, we can't say anything.) Then we get the demand that we prove a negative. (Tell me how different conditions would NOT be relevant.) Now we'll get four or five completely irrelevant posts talking about A bombs. So predictable. It might as well be a bot.
Sraw man arguments don't make any point. You can't prove a negative. Demanding that every amplifier be checked under every circumstance is obviously impossible. What you *can* do is look at this article, read the sidebar and find out the absurd lengths they went to in trying to please people who make arguments like "OH! You didn't use a turntable!" or "The amp doesn't matter if the CD player isn't top of the line." or arguing statistics, color of the rug, dress code of the listeners, etc.
The fact is, a test can be extremely well conducted, and take a great deal into account in advance, and reach a clear conclusion... and it will still have armchair experts in internet forums saying that it might not apply to them. If you REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to believe something, you can always think of an excuse to keep yourself in the dark. I'm perfectly fine with that. I only object to that when they try to spread their ignorance to others. All opinions are not equal. Some are full of hot air.
Do more tests. Do tests that are incredibly impractical and expensive "just to be sure". Prove impossible things... Refuse to jump through all my rhetorical hoops? Then my unsupported straw man argument is just as valid as the results of your test backed up with facts.
sorry... no.
You have the patience of Job. I think the only person still reading their posts in full is Gregorio. I read until I hit a logical fallacy or unsubstantiated claim, then I stop. I don't generally get more than a sentence or two in. It's unrewarding to go any further.
I would personally say that the results of the test were in fact quite conclusive…
They proved conclusively that a group of test subjects were unable to hear any difference between two different amplifiers…
- using the group of test subjects they chose
- using the two specific brands and models of amplifiers they tested
- using the specific source content they chose
- using the specific playback equipment they chose
- using the specific speakers they chose
- in the specific room and under the specific listening conditions they chose
- on the day the test was run
- at that particular time of day, day of the week, and season of the year
- at the specific temperature, relative humidity, and pollen count present in that venue that day
Note:
If you think I’m being too specific, then please present the results of a thorough test demonstrating how each of those factors is NOT relevant.
Or, if you try, I’ll bet you can think up another dozen factors which MIGHT be different on a different test.
Personally I’m not convinced that either a vinyl album, or a 1987 vintage CD player, could provide content that would be "perfect" enough not to mask flaws in an amplifier.
(For starters, both have a noise level far higher than the noise floor of even medium-quality amplifiers by today's standards... and vinyl has FAR more THD.)
I tend to agree with that. an experiment, even when statistically significant and repeated by others with similar results each time, is only conclusive within the frame of that experiment. if we start to consider dismissing the potential impact of extra variables so we can draw broader conclusions from an experience, we're not doing better than those who use their sighted impressions to draw conclusions about what they heard.An interesting question.....
Virtually every authority on the subject agrees that our hearing acuity is best when we are very young - and steadily decreases with age. There are apparently a massive collection of test results to back up that claim... and, in fact, nobody seems to even question its accuracy.
So, if we wish to test "whether humans can hear the difference between two different things", whether it's two different amplifiers, or two different DACs, or two different types of files, it seems to make obvious sense to choose our test subjects from among the human demographic group that we already know has the best hearing acuity. It hardly makes sense to accept test subjects who we know have less than optimal hearing acuity. Even if we suspect that factors other than raw hearing acuity are at work, and may even turn out to be more important, it seems obvious that, by deliberately excluding the group of humans who are known to have the best hearing acuity, we are seriously skewing the overall results. (I am, of course, taking the somewhat liberal view that children are in fact "human beings" rather than "pets".)
So, how many of the test results we have are from groups of test subjects that included the humans we already know have the best hearing acuity?
Did ANY of those so-called "definitive and carefully conducted tests" include any kindergarten children... or even teenagers...?
Should we suspect that they deliberately AVOIDED choosing the group of humans that we KNOW have the most acute hearing?
Or should we simply accept that they chose convenience over accuracy when selecting members of their test groups?
(Or, perhaps, that they chose among "humans who are likely to purchase stereo equipment"?)