Testing audiophile claims and myths
May 28, 2015 at 6:58 PM Post #6,482 of 14,876

StanD

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Posts
9,002
Likes
1,120
  If anyone thinks cables make a real difference to the average user then that's just a placebo effect and a marketing ploy if you ask me. In higher end equipment, higher grade cable would be sensible although on average cans normal OFC should suffice. Come to think of it all my headphone cables are relatively good quality...even the cheap Sony's.

SQ wise, brown zip cord used in the power cord of an electric lamp is as good as a $1K headphone cable. And dat be 'da truth.
 
May 28, 2015 at 7:14 PM Post #6,483 of 14,876

lamode

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Posts
775
Likes
229
  DR of CD redbook is 96.xy dB - in theory. Its rise time is 14.xy microseconds. 96 dB divided by 14 microseconds give us  6.857 dB/microsecond maximum possible change of SPL over certain amount of time.
 
DR of analog record as we usually know it is - under the best circumstances - 78 dB. Rise time of best cartridges available today is approximately 7 microseconds. 
which gives us 11.142 dB/microsecond maximum change of SPL over certain amount of time.
 
From the above, it is clear that in optimally recorded music, both to vynil and CD, vinyl outperforms the CD by 1,625 times - or, it is at least 60 % faster in responding to sudden changes in music - which is NOTHING BUT - you've guessed it - an never ending stream of sudden changes (unless your musical diet is exclusively composed of listening to organ ).

 
Wow, what a fantasy... The fastest rise time ever required by a system is to achieve maximum output (0dB) at the limit of human hearing. This is easily achieved by Redbook. Any faster rise times are pure fantasy - not needed unless you are listening to ultrasonics with your batty friends.
 
May 28, 2015 at 7:22 PM Post #6,484 of 14,876

lamode

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Posts
775
Likes
229
  ...
 
Soundstage is between 10 khz and 18 khz.

 
Is this another one of your personal theories? Because to be honest I don't think one of your personal theories so far has been correct.
 
May 28, 2015 at 11:50 PM Post #6,485 of 14,876

Exacoustatowner

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Posts
1,224
Likes
120
SQ wise, brown zip cord used in the power cord of an electric lamp is as good as a $1K headphone cable. And dat be 'da truth.

A healthy bit of Copper in lamp cord. I used it for speaker cables for years.
What is your take on whisper thin cables such as those used in free RCA cables such as those given away with CD players? The kind with 3 or 4 strands of copper for positive and negative?
 
May 28, 2015 at 11:56 PM Post #6,486 of 14,876

Exacoustatowner

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Posts
1,224
Likes
120
Wow, what a fantasy... The fastest rise time ever required by a system is to achieve maximum output (0dB) at the limit of human hearing. This is easily achieved by Redbook. Any faster rise times are pure fantasy - not needed unless you are listening to ultrasonics with your batty friends.

Interesting please provide references! A little Calculus is OK. Measurements of the audibility of rise time with double blind testing is best. I'm curious as I've read little on the subject and you clearly have the info! Simple dX/dT where X is rise ant T is time?
 
May 29, 2015 at 12:06 AM Post #6,487 of 14,876

Exacoustatowner

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Posts
1,224
Likes
120
You'd first want to show that 90 dab of dynamic range isn't enough.
You'd first have to show that 45 kHz matters.

But everyone who keeps shouting that they do, aren't terribly keen on actually demonstrating it. Because there will always be a percentage of people who will accept that it does based on empty claims alone. And if you can carve out a niche within that percentage that allows you to make good money, there's simply no incentive.

se

It baffles me how 45 KHz would affect the audible spectra. Are we talking NEGATIVE 3rd harmonics? I recall discussion of cheap cutoff filters on CD players causing roll off at the high end of the spectrum. But who would notice a roll off at 19 KHz?
 
May 29, 2015 at 12:16 AM Post #6,489 of 14,876

Steve Eddy

Member of the Trade: The Audio Guild
Aka: TempAccount555
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Posts
6,609
Likes
546
It baffles me how 45 KHz would affect the audible spectra. Are we talking NEGATIVE 3rd harmonics? I recall discussion of cheap cutoff filters on CD players causing roll off at the high end of the spectrum. But who would notice a roll off at 19 KHz?


Don't know. But it would be nice if those who believe it matters actually demonstrated that it matters.

se
 
May 29, 2015 at 12:20 AM Post #6,490 of 14,876

Exacoustatowner

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Posts
1,224
Likes
120
Don't know. But it would be nice if those who believe it matters actually demonstrated that it matters.

se

I hear you (not that I can prove it). Every time I see that an amp is down 3 db at 100 KHz I wonder if that means a Bat would think it's slightly "warm?"
 
May 29, 2015 at 12:57 AM Post #6,492 of 14,876

analogsurviver

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Posts
4,449
Likes
363
Don't know. But it would be nice if those who believe it matters actually demonstrated that it matters.

se

In due time. I have at least two sources that offer, quite intentionally and by design, slightly or not-so-slightly different  frequency response within the officially accepted audible band up to 20 kHz. 
 
Not to mention undisclosed number of phono cartridges. With responses crooked within 20 kHz - up to "almost" flat past 67 kHz. To be exact  - up to the upper limit of the 50 kHz test record intended to be played at 33 1/3 RPM actually played at 45 RPM - please do the math.
 
Of course I can record any of these to DSD128 and/or PCM192/24. 
 
None of the above can be accurately represented by the recording limited to CD redbook.
 
But it is CD mat test first ( or maybe the harpsichord recording of the Bat Concerto ) that will come first. 
 
May 29, 2015 at 1:30 AM Post #6,495 of 14,876

analogsurviver

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Posts
4,449
Likes
363
How is OFC of any benefit over ETP?

se

I did answer that already - Copper Oxide was the first form of a semiconductor. And any oxygen means there will, eventually, be oxydation of the crystal copper, yielding what should be conductor to become an unending series of diodes connected in random directions.
 
To test this theory, Japanese went to the most extreme possible of extremes - mercury cables. ZERO crystals (as mercury is liquid - except at terminations ), sealed from the atmosphere, whatever oxygen still entering the equation, would not be enough to "rot" anything but the surface of the mercury. These cables allegedly sounded superb - out of this world superb.
 
Practical realization was oxygen free copper with as long crystals as possible (on the order of half a metre or so...) - all intended to approximate the performance of the impractical (not to mention poisenous...) holy grail of cables - the mercury cable.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top