[vertical]

I'm not getting into the middle of that ...as I have 1 person close to me that goes to the colorful EDM concerts and another that's been to multiple Taylor Swift concerts.

I've always admired musicians that were good poets...Dylan, Paul Simon, and Jim Morrison come to mind.

 

[dpastern]

I'm not getting into the middle of that ...as I have 1 person close to me that goes to the colorful EDM concerts and another that's been to multiple Taylor Swift concerts.

I've always admired musicians that were good poets...Dylan, Paul Simon, and Jim Morrison come to mind.

 
Agreed.  I'll add Springsteen and Joe Jackson to that list.  
 
I just don't get the hate - I mean, neither Dylan or Springsteen are great vocalists at the best of times, yet I don't people bash them.  It just seems fashionable for "taylor bashing' and it grates me.  I'm not some teeny bopper either.  I'm a 45 year old guy with a very varied musical taste who listens to many different genres (dance/trance are about the only 2 things I won't listen to).  I've criticised Taylor before (and incurred the wrath of her dedicated "swifties") on both her singing, and in the last few performances, partial lip synching of shake it off (both at the VMAs and CMA fest).  Taylor's never really lip synched before in her career, so it's disappointing that she's doing that now.  Some of her more dedicated fans are well, rabid (that's the polite way of putting it lol!) and I don't have any time for them.  They're the ones that have to wear what Taylor wears, shop wear Taylor shops etc.  Bloody idiots if you ask me!

 

[dpastern]

I'll add to this thread - Taylor's 1989 sold 1.287 million copies in the opening week - nearly busting Britney Spear's 15 year old record.  In a depressed market, where piracy and streaming are rampant.  She's now the ONLY artist in history to have 3 albums sell more than a million copies in the opening week (Speak Now, RED & 1989).  She's the ONLY artist in Billboard's 53 year history to knock her #1 single off the top spot with another single (Blank Space dethroning shake it off).  1989 has now sold more than 2 million copies in 3 weeks.  She nearly doubled the entire year's worth of sales of Coldplay's latest album in 1 week.  Oh and the industry insiders said 1989 would be pushed to sell 650k copies in its opening week.  Oh my my my (pun there, it's a Taylor Swift song from her debut album).
 
And good on her too, for standing up to Spotify and removing her music from their playlists.  Spotify is nothing more than legalised piracy imho.  It de-values music and artists efforts.  

 

[Spyro]

Taylor seems like a nice upstanding decent person.  Can sing, can dance and IS MARKETABLE.
 
This is where these conversations go bad.  Many pop artists can only stay relevant with outrageous sex appeal which eventually dies off.  I give Swift more credit than that but I think you have to take it for what it is worth.  Pop stars (which is what she is) popularity and awards are dictated (I don't have the exact statistic) by 70-80% marketing machine.
 
I like her pop songs until about 15 listens then the simplicity of the song makes it redundant and boring.  But 12-18 year old girls...it may take 75-100 listens before they would get bored with it and that staying power is what pumps it up on the Billboard charts
 
I have nothing against pop stars but I take it for what it is.  But lets be realistic anyone with musical integrity understands that it is what it is.....a marketing machine at work.
 
In the world of music one almost has to separate the "SUCCESS"  into two different categories.  Popularity and $$... versus pure talent as a musician.  Unlike the acting industry these two differences are VASTLY different in the music industry.

 

[dpastern]

  Taylor seems like a nice upstanding decent person.  Can sing, can dance and IS MARKETABLE.
 
This is where these conversations go bad.  Many pop artists can only stay relevant with outrageous sex appeal which eventually dies off.  I give Swift more credit than that but I think you have to take it for what it is worth.  Pop stars (which is what she is) popularity and awards are dictated (I don't have the exact statistic) by 70-80% marketing machine.
 
I like her pop songs until about 15 listens then the simplicity of the song makes it redundant and boring.  But 12-18 year old girls...it may take 75-100 listens before they would get bored with it and that staying power is what pumps it up on the Billboard charts
 
I have nothing against pop stars but I take it for what it is.  But lets be realistic anyone with musical integrity understands that it is what it is.....a marketing machine at work.
 
In the world of music one almost has to separate the "SUCCESS"  into two different categories.  Popularity and $$... versus pure talent as a musician.  Unlike the acting industry these two differences are VASTLY different in the music industry.

 
I disagree.  Taylor can't dance (well, very well).  That said, she says screw you to the haters and gets up there and dances at the award shows because she *loves* the music.  Everyone else is too stuck up and proper to let their hair down and just enjoy themselves at the award shows.
 
Everything is marketing today.  Everything.  But, the Grammys are voted by the Grammy members (i.e. your peers).  The NSAI awards the same.  Awards like the AMAs are fan voted.
 
There's nothing wrong with simple.  Why does music have to be complex?  Is it because some artists like to be ultra complex?  Or a pissing competition where one artist can boast about how complex their music is?  Another fave of mine, Christy Moore, generally has quite simple chord structures in his music.  He's been around 40+ years and has a huge following back in his native Ireland and around the world.  Music doesn't have to be complex.  
 
If you want to argue simplicity, let's criticise the lyrics for a popular group, Daft Punk - say, "Get Lucky":
 

 

We're up all night to the sun​

​

We're up all night to get some​

​

We're up all night for good fun​

​

We're up all night to get lucky​

 
let's compare that to Taylor's "All Too Well":
 

 

Hey, you call me up again just to break me like a promise.​

​

So casually cruel in the name of being honest.​

​

I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here​

​

'Cause I remember it all, all, all... too well.​

 
hell, I certainly couldn't listen to Get Lucky 10 times, let alone 75 times    I don't know why people say that their stuff is really well recorded either, cos it isn't.  It's just as bad for DR as nearly all other mainstream released music (including Taylor's I have to sadly add).  
 
I tend to rarely criticise other artists, preferring to simply not listen to their music if it doesn't interest me or if I feel it's sub standard.  But I've taken the Daft Punk example as they seem to be extremely popular, and many of those bashing Taylor seem to like that genre of music (which is boring, simplistic and extremely repetitive as a rule imho).
 
And you obviously don't know a lot about Taylor - she has many older fans, both male & female, hell I know a fan who's nearly 70!  I know several now that I think about it.  And a lot of her fans are in their twenties.  Sure, she has fans in their tweens, so did Elvis & the Beatles too when they were at their peak.
 
The last time I looked POP stood for popular [music].  I mean, the Beatles were pop.  Elvis too.  i.e. music that the masses enjoyed.  Are you saying that they're bad?  Elvis didn't write his own stuff.  Granted, he did play the guitar and piano I believe.  The Beatles obviously wrote their own stuff and played their own instruments.  
 
Why is Taylor bigger than Rihanna, Beyonce, Katy and Miley?  I can answer that for you if you really want.  
 
Let's consider one alternative thing - demeanour.  Whilst ego maniacs like Kanye West physically assault the media, or Katy Perry slander the media with public vitriole, what does Taylor do when faced in the same situation?  She's polite, with no outbursts, she even knows and recognises several of the paparazzi by name and says hello to them when she sees them.  When she's out in public, fans come up to Taylor and she takes the time to get a selfie with them and talk to them.  Hell, Taylor's started buying some of her fans Christmas presents.  I don't think I've ever seen another music artist do that sort of thing before.  
 
If you take the time to listen to Taylor's unreleased demos, you'll see that her songs are lyrically strong even back then, and musically appealing, even before she made it big and had a marketing machine behind her.  The songs aren't as main stream as her released stuff, granted, but many of the themes are still the same today.

 

[Spyro]

I would take Taylor over Daft Punk....they are even more redundant and boring.  But you are sort of helping me make my point.  It is a brutally brutal song. But it made them rich.   Not to sound condescending or elitist because I don't play and instrument, don't sing, don't dance either but the average and majority music buyer out there would not know talent when they saw it.   The success of American Idol also proves my point.  All I am is saying is don't confuse popularity with talent.
 
There are exceptions but generally speaking the truly greatest artists and musicians in the world are virtually unknown to average people out there but widely respected within their industry which is what matters most.

 

[dpastern]

  I would take Taylor over Daft Punk....they are even more redundant and boring.  But you are sort of helping me make my point.  It is a brutally brutal song. But it made them rich.   Not to sound condescending or elitist because I don't play and instrument, don't sing, don't dance either but the average and majority music buyer out there would not know talent when they saw it.   The success of American Idol also proves my point.  All I am is saying is don't confuse popularity with talent.
 
There are exceptions but generally speaking the truly greatest artists and musicians in the world are virtually unknown to average people out there but widely respected within their industry which is what matters most.

 
Taylor wrote a song about American Idol et al when she was 14 or so.  It's called "Who I've Always Been".  Go check out the lyrics.  
 
Don't confuse popularity with lack of talent.  Whilst they are related in a lot of cases, don't assume to tar all artists with that very same brush.
 
Taylor is widely respected within the industry.  

 

[Chris J]

Taylor seems like a nice upstanding decent person.  Can sing, can dance and IS MARKETABLE.
In the world of music one almost has to separate the "SUCCESS"  into two different categories.  Popularity and $$... versus pure talent as a musician.  Unlike the acting industry these two differences are VASTLY different in the music industry.

Arguably "actors" like Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise and Angelina Jolie are 70% hype.
It's the same in the acting profession too.

 

[dpastern]

Arguably "actors" like Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise and Angelina Jolie are 70% hype.
It's the same in the acting profession too.

 
Oh hype is everywhere.  There's no doubting that Taylor has a good marketing machine and is hyped up.  But - strip that all away and the girl does have bucket loads of talent.  She has stage presence, a rare thing for someone so young.  She knows how to work a crowd.  Many artists twice her age lack this ability.  She' can't dance, but hell, she just has fun anyway.  And the girl can write a song.  
 
There was an interview with Lady Gaga recently and she mentioned Taylor - they met at an awards show a few years ago and Taylor said she loved her album etc.  Lady Gaga was thinking to herself "you're full of $hit".  Turns out they share the same stylist and said stylist was doing a shoot with Taylor one day and she had been dancing to Lady Gaga's album with wild abandon and singing along and having a blast.  He relayed that information back to Lady Gaga & she's impressed that Taylor said the same thing to her face as she did behind her back and was genuine.  Too many artists are fake, in more ways than One.  

 

[Chris J]

Oh hype is everywhere.  There's no doubting that Taylor has a good marketing machine and is hyped up.  But - strip that all away and the girl does have bucket loads of talent.  She has stage presence, a rare thing for someone so young.  She knows how to work a crowd.  Many artists twice her age lack this ability.  She' can't dance, but hell, she just has fun anyway.  And the girl can write a song.  

There was an interview with Lady Gaga recently and she mentioned Taylor - they met at an awards show a few years ago and Taylor said she loved her album etc.  Lady Gaga was thinking to herself "you're full of $hit".  Turns out they share the same stylist and said stylist was doing a shoot with Taylor one day and she had been dancing to Lady Gaga's album with wild abandon and singing along and having a blast.  He relayed that information back to Lady Gaga & she's impressed that Taylor said the same thing to her face as she did behind her back and was genuine.  Too many artists are fake, in more ways than One.  

One of the biggest problems with stadium shows is that few artists can work a crowd well enough to play a stadium show, they rely on lasers and lights.

 

[Spyro]

Arguably "actors" like Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise and Angelina Jolie are 70% hype.
It's the same in the acting profession too.

It's not NEARLY to the extent of the music industry.  When all the smoke clears actors that get academy awards pretty much give a knock out acting performance.  Cruise and Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, etc..... have (or had) huge box office sales with their movies but never win academy wards. 
 
Does Taylor Swift just write the lyrics or does she write all the music too?

 

[spook76]

Arguably "actors" like Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise and Angelina Jolie are 70% hype.
It's the same in the acting profession too.

While I would agree about Angelina Jolie and to a lesser extent Tom Cruise no way I would put Jack Nicholson in the hype category. If you have seen The Shining or more importantly, Chinatown you would realize Jack is the last old fashioned movie star with tremendous talent left. He is the only reason Martin Scorsese finally won an Oscar for The Departed. It was not Damon or Decapro but Jack Nicholson who carried that movie.

 

[dpastern]

Yes, Taylor writes both the music & lyrics.  She's the youngest person to ever write a #1 US country song too (Our Song).  She plays with lyrics (hidden meanings etc).   She also plays with music too, as an example, her lucky number is 13, and she'll quite often incorporate 13 into a song, such as 13 bars before lyrics start etc.  
 
There's a few nut jobs that try and suggest that she doesn't write her own stuff but her label pays others big money to write music for her and let her put her name on it.  I guess each to their own.  
 
Anyway, my bae is now 25.  No longer a little girl.  

 

[kalrykh]

You seem like you have a possibly unhealthy obsession to be honest

 

[Spyro]

I'm fine with her.  I have no problem with her.  I would rather have my 14 year old daughter listening to her than Tove Lo singing about getting through life being in a stoned stooper Or Rhianna enjoying being beat up by guys.
 
Let's just not get Taylor Swift confused with Joni Mitchell or Patricia Barber.