[Sebasistan]

According to this PDF, iFi is using the Hifiman standard pinout, not the A&K pinout: https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/iFi-audio-xCAN-S_BAL-Tech-Note.pdf
Could this explain the channel mix-up?
They also may be using some kind of fake "balanced" amplifier, at least in the older amps.

http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2016/02/headphone-connectors-pins-pinouts-for.html

I don't know why, when I went to Windows sound options and lowered the volume of the right channel it lowered the volume of the left.
In MusicBee, going to the EQ tab and swinging the balance slider around actually DID work as intended. So who knows what the hell is going on there.

The Zen DAC is great for headphones, but for IEMs it seems a bit hissy. And I don't think that's a 'fake' balanced amp either, at least I would assume that'd have come up in one of the (glowing) reviews the thing got. It does drive the 82Pro very well. It also drives the planar HE400i very well. So overall I'm really not concerned or unhappy with it. It is of course my first headphone amp. So there is a certain element of novelty to it all.

 

[BenF]

I don't know why, when I went to Windows sound options and lowered the volume of the right channel it lowered the volume of the left.
In MusicBee, going to the EQ tab and swinging the balance slider around actually DID work as intended. So who knows what the hell is going on there.

Maybe you could ask iFi support to clarify this behavior, as well as the fake balanced amp described in the PDF?

...The Zen DAC is great for headphones, but for IEMs it seems a bit hissy. And I don't think that's a 'fake' balanced amp either, at least I would assume that'd have come up in one of the (glowing) reviews the thing got. It does drive the 82Pro very well. It also drives the planar HE400i very well. So overall I'm really not concerned or unhappy with it. It is of course my first headphone amp. So there is a certain element of novelty to it all.

I remember my first amp and amp/DAC - FIIO E6 and FIIO E17. They certainly were important parts of my audiophile journey, but now I have much better gear.
Just wait till you'll hear Pro 82 on a synergy combo...

 

[Sebasistan]

Maybe you could ask iFi support to clarify this behavior, as well as the fake balanced amp described in the PDF?

I remember my first amp and amp/DAC - FIIO E6 and FIIO E17. They certainly were important parts of my audiophile journey, but now I have much better gear.
Just wait till you'll hear Pro 82 on a synergy combo...

Honestly I think I was just not thinking right when doing that test with the windows sound settings. It doesn't have a balance bar, instead there's separate sliders for left and right and... I hate to say it but I might have just gotten confused? Because recreating this now and everything works as intended. So this really is my error in interpreting this right. And the balance DOES work right on everything, Windows settings, MusicBee, Foobar, you name it.

As to the fake balanced amp, the Zen DAC is fairly new, they released it last year. It's gotten a lot of praise across several sites for being the lowest priced USB DAC that features a balanced out. I haven't looked into the documentation (and honestly, I'm not THAT deep into the tech that I would necessarily understand it without someone in the know explaining it step by step as to why this would be fake or genuine balanced...) so I can't say whether or not this is a "fake" balanced amp or not. I can tell you the balanced out sounds better. But then the 82Pro already sounds incredible out of the unbalanced port. I'm kinda sorta playing with the thought of adding a Zen CAN - ifi's headphone amp that's the Modi to the Zen DAC's Magni (or vice versa, I'm too lazy to look up which of the Schiit devices is DAC and which is amp, you get the idea). Not that I'm having power issues with the Zen DAC alone.

One issue the Zen DAC has: it is noticably hissy with IEMs. So anything new would have to be quite significantly more quiet. This isn't an issue with full sized cans. But all IEMs I've run out of it so far had quite some going on.

And I mean, I am aware that this is supposedly a "beginner" DAC. For my purposes and purse strings though, it really is sufficient. Until in a year or so when I might go nuts and go for.. Something else.

That said am kinda curious about adding a tube amp, but I have no idea a) how that would work or b) what's good in the "entry level" price range.

But this is the 82Pro thread, not "Seb muses about DACs" thread.

Synergy combos? What are those?

 

[Sebasistan]

I will say though, the 82Pro sounds quite fantastic with the Zen DAC, running balanced or single ended. It does markedly improve with the DAC on high gain and bass boost engaged (ifi call this "power match" and "truebass" respectively).

It also pairs very well with my Shanling M6, running balanced and on high gain. To the point where I prefer the sound of the 82Pro over that of the vast majority of my IEMs.

In general, the 82Pro improves with amping. Which, I know, not news to this thread. But it's interesting to see it in action. So far the only gear I have to behave that way are my planars - the Hifiman HE400i and the TRI I3 IEMs.

 

[BenF]

One issue the Zen DAC has: it is noticably hissy with IEMs. So anything new would have to be quite significantly more quiet. This isn't an issue with full sized cans. But all IEMs I've run out of it so far had quite some going on.

O2 (with gain 1.0x/3.3x) should solve this problem. It's also part of one of the synergy combos...

That said am kinda curious about adding a tube amp, but I have no idea a) how that would work or b) what's good in the "entry level" price range.

Little Bear P10 is a great hybrid tube amp. It's also part of one of the synergy combos...

But this is the 82Pro thread, not "Seb muses about DACs" thread.

Pro 82 is extremely sensitive to the quality of amps and DACs, so musing about DACs is necessary to get the best SQ.

Synergy combos? What are those?

About synergy
For reviews of amps and DACs, including the synergy combos, see here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...discussion-thread.849965/page-5#post-13501419

 

[Sebasistan]

O2 (with gain 1.0x/3.3x) should solve this problem. It's also part of one of the synergy combos...


Little Bear P10 is a great hybrid tube amp. It's also part of one of the synergy combos...

Wait, so... Apologies for asking noobish questions. The O2 is an amplifier, so I could run it together with my Zen DAC, right?
Just so I understand this right: how does this chain work? Source (PC, DAP, in this case something with an USB out) -> DAC -> Amp (via RCA cable I guess?) -> Headphones?

 

[BenF]

Wait, so... Apologies for asking noobish questions. The O2 is an amplifier, so I could run it together with my Zen DAC, right?

You could use it with Zen DAC, when it's set to "Fixed".

Just so I understand this right: how does this chain work? Source (PC, DAP, in this case something with an USB out) -> DAC -> Amp (via RCA cable I guess?) -> Headphones

Correct. Sometimes all 3 are combined in 1 - like with a music player, where the digital music passes all 3 stages before it reaches your headphones as an amplified analog signal.

My favorite source is a laptop, especially when running on a battery power to avoid any AC noise.

 

[iFi audio]

I will say though, the 82Pro sounds quite fantastic with the Zen DAC, running balanced or single ended. It does markedly improve with the DAC on high gain and bass boost engaged (ifi call this "power match" and "truebass" respectively).

Thanks, enjoy

You could use it with Zen DAC, when it's set to "Fixed".

Yes, the "Fixed" option would diesngage ZEN DAC's volume control.

 

[BenF]

...Yes, the "Fixed" option would diesngage ZEN DAC's volume control.

Does using "Fixed" result in Zen DAC outputting a true Line Out signal directly from the DAC chip, or does it still pass through the amplification circuit, causing double-amping when using Zen DAC with another amp?

 

[nraymond]

Does using "Fixed" result in Zen DAC outputting a true Line Out signal directly from the DAC chip, or does it still pass through the amplification circuit, causing double-amping when using Zen DAC with another amp?

It's a line out with two options - variable, and fixed. Fixed is for when you feed the line out into something with it's own volume control (some amplifiers have their own volume controls, some don't, or you might have speakers with amplifiers in them but the volume control for the speakers might be on the back so it could be preferable to leave the speaker volume control set at a fixed point and then use the variable line out to control the volume from the Zen DAC instead because the knob is in a more convenient location).

 

[iFi audio]

Does using "Fixed" result in Zen DAC outputting a true Line Out signal directly from the DAC chip,

Yes, that's how it works.

 

[BenF]

Yes, that's how it works.

Does Zen DAC drive simultaneously the RCA output and the headphone outputs?

 

[iFi audio]

Does Zen DAC drive simultaneously the RCA output and the headphone outputs?

I'm positive that it does, but I'll need to double-check this

 

[Sebasistan]

So after two or so weeks with the 82Pro I have to say...
What in the hell are they putting in these things? How are these sold for $60? This is nuts. The hype is absolutely justified.
I bought myself these and a pair of Tri I3 IEMs in September. The IEMs arrived first and I was blown away by their sound quality, stage, technicalities, etc. Very good set.
But ever since I got the 82Pro, the I3 sound like kitchen radios. I mean, not really, they're still a great set, but the 82Pro sound so much better. Such a lush sound, the quality and quantity of bass...

I know, I know, full sized vs. IEM is always a bit odd to compare. But the 82Pro have absolutely spoiled me.

Looking at tube amps...
Are there any you'd recommend that have a balanced out? I'm using pretty much all of my IEMs with balanced cables...

 

[Leo-rume]

So after two or so weeks with the 82Pro I have to say...
What in the hell are they putting in these things? How are these sold for $60? This is nuts. The hype is absolutely justified.
I bought myself these and a pair of Tri I3 IEMs in September. The IEMs arrived first and I was blown away by their sound quality, stage, technicalities, etc. Very good set.
But ever since I got the 82Pro, the I3 sound like kitchen radios. I mean, not really, they're still a great set, but the 82Pro sound so much better. Such a lush sound, the quality and quantity of bass...

I know, I know, full sized vs. IEM is always a bit odd to compare. But the 82Pro have absolutely spoiled me.

Looking at tube amps...
Are there any you'd recommend that have a balanced out? I'm using pretty much all of my IEMs with balanced cables...

I'm curious as to what bass port setting you use.