T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic
Feb 4, 2021 at 7:27 AM Post #481 of 1,454

Tekunda

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I’ve driven them off Burson Conductor 3XR with good results though bass was not as impressive as on References Milo. The Milo produces 10 watts around at 50 ohms. The Burson will provide about 2 watts into 80 ohms. The actual sensitivity is 92db/mill watt. That’s 4 more db then Abyss 1266. My big amp the HeadTrip 2 if I connect the normal 99-104 db you can hear the transformer. With the Solitaire connected you can barely hear it. You need to make sure the amp has a high current out or bass will not be up to snuff. Now both Milo and HeadTrip have 30db of gain. I’m guessing by design the ha-200 has high current possibly due to high rail voltage allowing the Solitaire to play its best because I’ve learned planar drivers love current. I spoke with Jeff owner of Wells and spoke about Solitaire needing 750 mills watts and that’s just the starting point. Going back to Abyss 1266 that has sensitivity of 46ohms so that’s more demand vs 80 ohms. You need to see what your amp will deliver at 80 ohms and realize 92 db is mid range of sensitivity. The 1266, Susvara, and HE-6 require a powerful amp to get the correct experience. The Solitaire in my opinion needs power to get $6,400 out of them. Connected to the HeadTrip the depth width and 3D is amazing The Milo $1600-$5000 does 95% of the HeadTrip 2 but by design adds more warmth and a bass shelf above the HeadTrip which is a neutral tube sounding $7000 amp. Would you by a Honda and drop a Ferrari engin in it? The guys that have Solitaire P also bought $8,900 amp. Easy to drive is Empyrean, LCD X and Rad-0. Yeah the cheap amp will make sound but it will sound cheap. I’ve owned about 30 headphones and I can tell what works and what doesn’t. Been in audio since 16 now 44. Was a mobile electronics technician before moving into the home audio scene. It’s all about Ohm’s law. Manufacturers that put a tag on the headphone amp producing 14 watts at 16 ohms is great but what will it produce on a more resistant circuit. 80 ohms is high impedance. Look at Beyerdynamics 600 ohm driver well my 50 watts at 8 ohm HeadTrip goes down to 1.8 watts. I ain’t buying a $7000 amp to power a $300-$700 headphone that’s ludicrous. You want a to spend $5000-$6400 on headphone get a amp that matches.
So the Bakoon amp 13r should fit nicely with these headphones, as the Bakoon according to the manufacturer amplifies in the current domain.
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 7:47 AM Post #482 of 1,454

Bonddam

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i always thought there are some engineering things that translate into good audio experience. Now I see that I was wrong. It's all about $$$
Thanks
No!!!!!! High price because it actually sounds amazing. T+A and Abyss didn’t start in headphones. They had to restructure to create amazing headphones. ZMF didn’t come up with the Verite at the beginning, he had to brainstorm. You are paying for someone’s work. If T+A didn’t r&d and bought one from China and charged $6,400 that would be complete dog doody. Solitaire P is king of a realm but there are always many kings. I had to adjust to Solitaire and it happened pretty quick I was use to 2d sound with okay soundstage and my brain said that’s normal. Garbage man gets use to the smell I’d like to hear their experience on first day. The P creates the illusion that there is more space. I’d be the Abyss doesn’t present it this way both have 3 dimensions a roundness to the sound. Abyss treble is closer Solitaire places it further up. Bass on both is equal I’ll give more detail to the p but the 1266 resonates more because of the opening the none sealing ear cup design. List goes on and on. Quickest to love is 1266. But now my brain listens for those que’s and I’m blown away. The guy with D8000 seemed lack luster didn’t give a lot of excitement but as his posts went on it’s clearly he like both but gives head time the most to the P and that’s what happened to me. Abyss comes out 10%. I had 12 headphones including estat. No longer have any estat and now only own 1266 and Solitaire. I become a huge T+A fan that I added the se and ha-200.
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 8:25 AM Post #483 of 1,454

ThanatosVI

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No!!!!!! High price because it actually sounds amazing. T+A and Abyss didn’t start in headphones. They had to restructure to create amazing headphones. ZMF didn’t come up with the Verite at the beginning, he had to brainstorm. You are paying for someone’s work. If T+A didn’t r&d and bought one from China and charged $6,400 that would be complete dog doody. Solitaire P is king of a realm but there are always many kings. I had to adjust to Solitaire and it happened pretty quick I was use to 2d sound with okay soundstage and my brain said that’s normal. Garbage man gets use to the smell I’d like to hear their experience on first day. The P creates the illusion that there is more space. I’d be the Abyss doesn’t present it this way both have 3 dimensions a roundness to the sound. Abyss treble is closer Solitaire places it further up. Bass on both is equal I’ll give more detail to the p but the 1266 resonates more because of the opening the none sealing ear cup design. List goes on and on. Quickest to love is 1266. But now my brain listens for those que’s and I’m blown away. The guy with D8000 seemed lack luster didn’t give a lot of excitement but as his posts went on it’s clearly he like both but gives head time the most to the P and that’s what happened to me. Abyss comes out 10%. I had 12 headphones including estat. No longer have any estat and now only own 1266 and Solitaire. I become a huge T+A fan that I added the se and ha-200.
Please share your impressions between the Solitaire P and P-SE when you had both for a while
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 1:41 PM Post #485 of 1,454

smodtactical

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For me it's the other way round. Reviews like musicalheads really sparked my interest in this headphone.
The fact that it runs on way more amps than a Susvara (and is way cheaper here in germany, with superior build quality) just sealed the deal.

I don't really understand why it doesn't get the attention it deserves on the international market.

Probably because on the international market and considering dealer discounts / street price, susvara and tc are much cheaper. Also so far it doesn't seem from the people who reviewed it to out perform tc or susvara in any meaningful way. So if it costs more and is merely as good or inferior... then that wont move people to make such a huge investment.
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 1:52 PM Post #486 of 1,454

paradoxper

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i always thought there are some engineering things that translate into good audio experience. Now I see that I was wrong. It's all about $$$
Thanks
Nods.

LMAO.
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 8:54 PM Post #488 of 1,454

brams

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My limited experience with the Solitaire P suggests that it definitely needs top quality amplification to get the best out of it regardless of what the specifications imply. Even with the DCS Bartok I needed to crank the volume up quite a bit higher than I did with the Utopia to get a good sense of drive.

I agree with @Bonddam. It does not make sense to buy a component like the Solitaire P and not drive it with anything but the absolute best. If I was using this headphone with a Chord product I would definitely be looking at something like the Dave to start with the intention of adding a dedicated amp down the road.

High price in of itself does not guarantee good quality, but for the most part nowadays you do get what you pay for within the constraints of the law of diminishing returns. This is especially true in todays' market where it is so easy for impressions to be shared over the internet. In this respect it can be argued that a dac/amp product like the HA200 or the Bartok that wraps a top tier streamer, dac and amplifier in one package actually represents a cost savings versus buying separates that deliver a similar level of performance.

Based on my many years as an audio enthusiast and expensive lessons learned along the way I can say quite confidently that buying top end components that you can enjoy without the need to switch to something better every year will save a ton of money in the long run. The only reason I am considering the Solitaire P-SE is that for me the Solitaire P's softness in the high end does not justify the premium at the going list.
 
Feb 4, 2021 at 9:32 PM Post #489 of 1,454

Bonddam

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My limited experience with the Solitaire P suggests that it definitely needs top quality amplification to get the best out of it regardless of what the specifications imply. Even with the DCS Bartok I needed to crank the volume up quite a bit higher than I did with the Utopia to get a good sense of drive.

I agree with @Bonddam. It does not make sense to buy a component like the Solitaire P and not drive it with anything but the absolute best. If I was using this headphone with a Chord product I would definitely be looking at something like the Dave to start with the intention of adding a dedicated amp down the road.

High price in of itself does not guarantee good quality, but for the most part nowadays you do get what you pay for within the constraints of the law of diminishing returns. This is especially true in todays' market where it is so easy for impressions to be shared over the internet. In this respect it can be argued that a dac/amp product like the HA200 or the Bartok that wraps a top tier streamer, dac and amplifier in one package actually represents a cost savings versus buying separates that deliver a similar level of performance.

Based on my many years as an audio enthusiast and expensive lessons learned along the way I can say quite confidently that buying top end components that you can enjoy without the need to switch to something better every year will save a ton of money in the long run. The only reason I am considering the Solitaire P-SE is that for me the Solitaire P's softness in the high end does not justify the premium at the going list.
How did you listen to them that they are soft? Was it on the HA-200. If so the HA-200 is going back. The Burson Conductor was clean and bright without harshness.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 3:18 AM Post #490 of 1,454

ThanatosVI

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My limited experience with the Solitaire P suggests that it definitely needs top quality amplification to get the best out of it regardless of what the specifications imply. Even with the DCS Bartok I needed to crank the volume up quite a bit higher than I did with the Utopia to get a good sense of drive.

I agree with @Bonddam. It does not make sense to buy a component like the Solitaire P and not drive it with anything but the absolute best. If I was using this headphone with a Chord product I would definitely be looking at something like the Dave to start with the intention of adding a dedicated amp down the road.

High price in of itself does not guarantee good quality, but for the most part nowadays you do get what you pay for within the constraints of the law of diminishing returns. This is especially true in todays' market where it is so easy for impressions to be shared over the internet. In this respect it can be argued that a dac/amp product like the HA200 or the Bartok that wraps a top tier streamer, dac and amplifier in one package actually represents a cost savings versus buying separates that deliver a similar level of performance.

Based on my many years as an audio enthusiast and expensive lessons learned along the way I can say quite confidently that buying top end components that you can enjoy without the need to switch to something better every year will save a ton of money in the long run. The only reason I am considering the Solitaire P-SE is that for me the Solitaire P's softness in the high end does not justify the premium at the going list.
Did you try the extra wide pads on the Solitaire P.
They should help with the "softness" in the treble
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 3:27 AM Post #491 of 1,454

DarginMahkum

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Did you try the extra wide pads on the Solitaire P.
They should help with the "softness" in the treble

Frankly I don't understand the softness in the treble. Less "air" frequencies, compared to D8000 Pro for example, yes, but rest of the treble is all there. What is soft compared to the usual suspects is upper mids, not the actual treble. At least that is my perception.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 3:33 AM Post #492 of 1,454

ThanatosVI

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Frankly I don't understand the softness in the treble. Less "air" frequencies, compared to D8000 Pro for example, yes, but rest of the treble is all there. What is soft compared to the usual suspects is upper mids, not the actual treble. At least that is my perception.
I actually really hope that it is true, I am quite treble sensitive.

Yesterday my Octave V16 amp arrived, and the KT120 stock tubes were too bright with the Empyrean, maybe I can use them with the Solitaire P.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 4:19 AM Post #493 of 1,454

DarginMahkum

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I actually really hope that it is true, I am quite treble sensitive.

Yesterday my Octave V16 amp arrived, and the KT120 stock tubes were too bright with the Empyrean, maybe I can use them with the Solitaire P.

Depends on which part of the treble, you mean. If you check the measurements from Nomax, the 5-10 kHz region (treble / upper treble) is pretty much comparable to Utopia:

https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...reatest-hits-kh-collection/page565#post579016
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 4:36 AM Post #494 of 1,454

Bonddam

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My experience is the treble is not shoved into your ear. There is distance so a cymbal sounds more is behind the singer. So correct depth to the drummers position. On edm high hats will be in line with the midrange and bass never making it disjointed. When I put back the 1266 on I didn’t like the treble for about 5 minutes. It was too much but not harsh. So the Solitaire has better soundstage and imaging then the 1266 IMO. Soft to me would be no sweetness or sparkle just sounding dull.
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 4:52 AM Post #495 of 1,454

ThanatosVI

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Depends on which part of the treble, you mean. If you check the measurements from Nomax, the 5-10 kHz region (treble / upper treble) is pretty much comparable to Utopia:

https://www.open-end-music.com/forum/audiophile-kopfhörer/kh-kopfhörer-full-size/7022-nomax-s-greatest-hits-kh-collection/page565#post579016
That's why I never decide based on such measurements. Utopia is probably the brightest among the flagships and the Solitaire one of the least bright ones according to reviews.
 

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