T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic
Dec 27, 2020 at 8:59 AM Post #256 of 1,455

Musicalhead

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Posts
30
Likes
134
Location
Germany
Trio Infernale small.jpg


Hello,

unfortunately, I may publish my review of the SOLITAIRE P-SE on my blog Musicalhead at the beginning of the new year, because the brand new T+A headphones will be officially available in German stores only from January 25.

But as you see, the "Trio Infernale" is already standing by... :wink:

Greetings
Fidelio
 
Last edited:
Dec 27, 2020 at 9:06 AM Post #257 of 1,455

ThanatosVI

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Posts
3,701
Likes
3,483
Location
Germany
Trio Infernale small.jpg

Hello,

unfortunately, I may publish my review of the SOLITAIRE P-SE on my blog Musicalhead at the beginning of the new year, because the brand new T+A headphones will be officially available in German stores only from January 25.

But as you see, the "Trio Infernale" is already standing by... :wink:

Greetings
Fidelio
Can't wait for it :)

I am rooting for the SE to be good, looks even better in complete black and is much more affordable.

However T+A mentioned small differences which might be important to my enjoyment
 
Dec 27, 2020 at 9:10 AM Post #258 of 1,455

DarginMahkum

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Posts
2,896
Likes
3,790
Location
Berlin


Hello,

unfortunately, I may publish my review of the SOLITAIRE P-SE on my blog Musicalhead at the beginning of the new year, because the brand new T+A headphones will be officially available in German stores only from January 25.

But as you see, the "Trio Infernale" is already standing by... :wink:

Greetings
Fidelio

Did you adjust the curvature of the headband on the P or P-SE? P-SE looks tighter. Actually this is one of the points about the P that I would prefer a wider curvature for the headband but I don't feel that it can be bent. I wanted to call T+A to ask if it is safe, but they will be back on the 4th.
 
Last edited:
Dec 27, 2020 at 5:34 PM Post #259 of 1,455

brams

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Posts
280
Likes
180
Really looking forward to the review and comparison; it will directly impact my wallet! The demo price of the Solitaire P quoted to me was still too ridiculous so unless that changes dramatically it's either the -SE or nothing for me as far as T+A is concerned.

Very interested to see how T+A voices the new product to still justify the Solitaire P as the top dog while at least partially addressing some of the reported frequency response issues.
 
Dec 28, 2020 at 4:15 AM Post #260 of 1,455

Newsee

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Posts
369
Likes
266
Location
Suisse
Actually the HA200 doesn't completely have R2R.
The DSD section is completely 1 bit Delta/Sigma.
The PCM section is a proprietary architecture consisting of 4x Delta/Sigma Chips.

However it has one oversampling Mode said to have a very R2R like sound signature.

I am too deep into my Systems optimisation already, but I would have loved to hear the Ha200 - certainly would not have been more expensive.
Sorry for the mistake. Thank you for the correction. Post edited.
Maybe I was reading too much about Wawedream recently.
Are you referring to the T&A DAC 8 as "its big brother"?
As far as I know the DAC secion is inherited from SDV 3100.
Yes, the SDV 3100.
 
Dec 28, 2020 at 4:45 AM Post #261 of 1,455

DarginMahkum

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Posts
2,896
Likes
3,790
Location
Berlin
I another comparison today with D8000 Pro, after completing the 100 hour burn-in period. Summary: I should have really waited for the burn in for the comparison. And never judge a not burned-in Solitaire P.

- I don't think anymore D8000 is technically ahead of Solitaire P. The bass quality and speed (not the amount) has reached a level that I can only recall from a Stax 009 setup. So clean, fast and textured. In addition, it has more subbass, which makes it a very satisfactory big sounding bass, as the image is also taller.

- The bass mid transition has also at a level that I don't think there is any sort of bleed anymore.

- After continuously listening to Solitaire P in the recent days, I realized that I got used to the thicker mids and prefer it over the D8000, especially for vocals. The thinner vocals / mids of D8000, also with a bit more intimate presentation and more air frequency components, sound clearer. Also with the size of the image being not as tall helps that. But on Solitaire they are not less detailed or technically lacking anything. They are both of the same detail level, but Solitaire has better instrument separation, which makes it easier to pick up some details.

- The treble, excluding the air frequencies (>12kHz), is pretty much the same quality, but D8000 has more airy presentation, which gives it an impression of being clearer.

- D8000 does not have the unnaturally forward and exaggerated upper mids of Utopia, and Solitaire is even leaner, but it does not require me to turn up the volume or anything. Even for some recordings, with the brighter characteristics of D8000, it is still a bit forward for my liking. Solitaire just has the right distance.

I also have examples for all that I mentioned above, but I will skip it for now, and put them in a final comparison write up.
 
Dec 28, 2020 at 5:45 AM Post #263 of 1,455

DarginMahkum

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Posts
2,896
Likes
3,790
Location
Berlin
I added a bell curve of around 3dB to the 3000Hz area of the D8000 pro and am very satisfied with the results. The mids have now a much more present presentation.

I think no loser here. Both are extremely good headphones. D8000 is still the better all rounder and better if you like an airier, a bit more intimate presentation. Also easier to drive from a portable. Solitaire wins if you are a bass lover with a bit more laid back mids, and bigger sound image. And previously I was against EQ'ing - it was more like a religious thing. :) But now I am used to the idea. I also add a bit to the air frequencies, sometimes, on Solitaire.
 
Dec 29, 2020 at 9:07 AM Post #265 of 1,455

Musicalhead

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Posts
30
Likes
134
Location
Germany
Thank you for the great reviews and looking forward to your opinions. :) One thing though, if you are in contact with T+A, can you please be so kind to let them know that having shorter cables in their accessory inventories would be great. All their cables are 3 meters and I never in my life needed a 3 meter cable. Something 1.5m with a pentaconn connector would be great for using with portables.

Also would be great if they could have cables with sleeves. The current cables are too cat friendly. :)

Have a great new year. :)

I spoke yesterday with Mr. Amft, the CEO of T+A, by phone and gave him your suggestion. So new cables for the P-SE regarding mobile use in approx. 1.50 m length will most likely be included in their accessories program as early as January 2021... :wink:

Greetings
Fidelio
 
Last edited:
Dec 31, 2020 at 5:17 AM Post #266 of 1,455

bidn

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Posts
393
Likes
568
Location
Kingdom of the Netherlands
I spoke yesterday with Mr. Amft, the CEO of T+A, by phone and gave him your suggestion.

Hi Musicalhead,

Your very interesting comment (and other similar comments about your contacts with headphone manufacturing companies (e.g. like you mentioned once about Warwick audio on the Open End forum) for whose products you manage to write your long, eloquent and nicely positive impressions on your very polished website) leads me to a question for you:
I (and I assume also some other Head-Fi members) would like to know, re. the headphones (and all other gear like related amplifiers) you review, as well as those you review and own, as well as those you reviewed, owned and sold (e.g. advertised and sold off to some members of the Open End Forum, I personally PMed you there several years ago about an expensive amp I was interested in, which you had reviewed and were selling), whether you purchase them entirely with your own money earned independently from the audio companies at a normal price (e.g. like me and most of us do at our dealer or at webshops),
or, as a (I am also wondering: semi-professional or professional ?) "reviewer" do you "receive" or have you at least ever "received" some of this expensive gear at a lower price or for free (e.g. in exchange of "unbiased" reviews) (or would your reviewing activity provide another form, e.g. maybe more direct or through paying advertisements, of financial benefit)?
I would be interested if you could provide a definitely unambiguous answer.

Wishing all the best to all of you for 2021,
bidn

BTW,
I have noticed that some Head Fi members running nice reviewing websites like yours are registered here as MoT = Members of the Trade, so if you haven't done so yet, you could very carefully read the regulations re. such cases to make sure that by running your very polished audio gear reviewing website you are not committing any violation of the rules which would apply to your case, i.e. you would be required to upgrade your Head-Fi status to that of a MoT (and possibly pay a a fee?) to be allowed to post at Head-Fi without breaching the applicable regulations.
 
Last edited:
Dec 31, 2020 at 8:01 AM Post #267 of 1,455

Tekunda

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 25, 2019
Posts
408
Likes
257
Location
STUTTGART
Hi Musicalhead,

Your very interesting comment (and other similar comments about your contacts with headphone manufacturing companies (e.g. like you mentioned once about Warwick audio on the Open End forum) for whose products you manage to write your long, eloquent and nicely positive impressions on your very polished website) leads me to a question for you:
I (and I assume also some other Head-Fi members) would like to know, re. the headphones (and all other gear like related amplifiers) you review, as well as those you review and own, as well as those you reviewed, owned and sold (e.g. advertised and sold off to some members of the Open End Forum, I personally PMed you there several years ago about an expensive amp I was interested in, which you had reviewed and were selling), whether you purchase them entirely with your own money earned independently from the audio companies at a normal price (e.g. like me and most of us do at our dealer or at webshops),
or, as a (I am also wondering: semi-professional or professional ?) "reviewer" do you "receive" or have you at least ever "received" some of this expensive gear at a lower price or for free (e.g. in exchange of "unbiased" reviews) (or would your reviewing activity provide another form, e.g. maybe more direct or through paying advertisements, of financial benefit)?
I would be interested if you could provide a definitely unambiguous answer.

Wishing all the best to all of you for 2021,
bidn

BTW,
I have noticed that some Head Fi members running nice reviewing websites like yours are registered here as MoT = Members of the Trade, so if you haven't done so yet, you could very carefully read the regulations re. such cases to make sure that by running your very polished audio gear reviewing website you are not committing any violation of the rules which would apply to your case, i.e. you would be required to upgrade your Head-Fi status to that of a MoT (and possibly pay a a fee?) to be allowed to post at Head-Fi without breaching the applicable regulations.
Of course I cannot speak for musical head, but on his website it states that he has no financial incentive from the industry, or experiencing any form of repression by the audio industry.

"Und ich betreibe diesen BLOG ja grundsätzlich ohne jegliche monetären Zwänge und infolgedessen auch völlig unabhängig von Repressionen durch die Industrie" .
 
Dec 31, 2020 at 8:54 AM Post #268 of 1,455

bidn

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Posts
393
Likes
568
Location
Kingdom of the Netherlands
Of course I cannot speak for musical head, but on his website it states that he has no financial incentive from the industry, or experiencing any form of repression by the audio industry.

"Und ich betreibe diesen BLOG ja grundsätzlich ohne jegliche monetären Zwänge und infolgedessen auch völlig unabhängig von Repressionen durch die Industrie" .

I on the opposite finds this disclaimer extremely suspicious,
because he precisely avoids to say that he bought all the expensive gear with his own, independently and hardly earned money.

I used to trust such sites in the past, until I realised I was misled about my purchases.
You might think that I have become too suspicious, and that there is no need for him to be explain how he obtained the products.
The problem is that there is actually a whole reviewing business, (originating from the USA?), the business model is that companies send the items for free to the reviewers, who then make money by selling them as used items, while they never paid for purchasing them. You even find that at amazon (Vine reviewers).

This applies to many kinds of gear-oriented, technically specific nice looking "professional" relatively smaller websites.
Usually the industry does not directly give money to such websites, but the very expensive gear for free. For example I was following headphonia in the past, they were reviewing sometimes several items costing together more than 20 000 euros in a single month, and at some points they sell a lot of that gear as second-hand stuff.

Here at Head-Fi when professional reviewers write a full-fledged review, they will avoid saying that they purchased the item, but usually have a disclaimer at the beginning such as:
"This [item-name] was received [pay attention, not purchased, just received] in exchange of my honest opinion" = i.e. they didn't purchase the item, but receive it for free in exchange of writing a long, eloquently written review with beautiful pictures and nice words, and in the case of expensive audio gear : actually never a negative conclusion.
(similar statements are often found on some websites like headphonia).
(Please note that I am not accusing anyone of being dishonest.
These reviewers may well believe what they write. The problem is that when you receive expensive stuff for free, you are happy and tend to unconsciously look at thing through glasses making things look sunnier and nicer than in reality. Someone who paid on the opposite of lot of his hardly earned money will look through different, critical glasses, remembering of all the money and hard work he sacrificed to buy the product, looking for failed aspects of the product and being less forgiving for them).

If you read audio magazines, have you ever noticed a clearly negative review? (even when they show awful measurements, they impressively still manage to remain positive)? (for magazines and very large websites, the business model is different as free items are not so essential, most of their income being instead generated by the advertisements. Following a clearly negative review, a company will "cancel" its ads at a magazin, i.e. decreasing its income). I speak many modern languages (e.g. French, Dutch, English, German, etc.) and in all these languages these magazines do the same thing...

"Reviewers" (in the sense of those having systematic, intensive reviewing activity going at length beyond it being a mere hobby) daring to write negative reviews are exceptional, I only know three cases: Tyll Hertsens (but once he issued a negative review about an item of a given company, in some cases the given company would not send him further models; and he honestly would send the items back to the companies, not selling them second hand), Crinacle (he borrows items from shops and people) and Amir (ASR, he reviews items belonging to people, who usually ship them to him, and he back to them). The point is not to discuss these later person's reviews, but only the principle with which they obtain most of the products they review.

In the present case, given the contrast between :
- on one hand the measurements of the Solitaire clearly not matching the headphone frequency response target curves, i.e. being factually proven as not being neutral
- on the other hand Musicalhead's claims that this headphone is "neutral",
I hope that we can at least agree that my questioning about this issue is understandable and that it is relevant re. the discussion in this thread about the Solitaire fulfilling the fundamental requirement defining high fidelity (neutrality) or not fulfilling it.
 
Last edited:
Dec 31, 2020 at 9:09 AM Post #269 of 1,455

ThanatosVI

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Posts
3,701
Likes
3,483
Location
Germany
I on the opposite finds this disclaimer extremely suspicious,
because he precisely avoids to say that he bought all the expensive gear with his own, independently and hardly earned money.

I used to trust such sites in the past, until I realised I was misled about my purchases.
You might think that I have become too suspicious, and that there is no need for him to be explain how he obtained the products.
The problem is that there is actually a whole reviewing business, (originating from the USA?), the business model is that companies send the items for free to the reviewers, who then make money by selling them as used items, while they never paid for purchasing them. You even find that at amazon (Vine reviewers).

This applies to many kind of gear-oriented, technically specific nice looking "professional" relatively smaller websites.
Usually the industry does not directly give money to such websites, but the very expensive gear for free. For example I was following headphonia in the past, they were reviewing sometimes several items costing together more than 20 000 euros in a single month, and at some points they sell a lot of that gear as second-hand stuff.

Here at Head-Fi when professional reviewers write a full-fledged review, they will avoid saying that they purchased the item, but usually have a disclaimer at the beginning such as:
"This [item-name] was received [pay attention, not purchased, just received] in exchange of my honest opinion" = i.e. they didn't purchase the item, but receive it for free in exchange of writing a long, eloquently written review with beautiful pictures and nice words, and in the case of expensive audio gear : never a negative conclusion.
(similar statements are often found on some websites like headphonia).

If you read audio magazines, have you ever noticed a clearly negative review? (even when they show awful measurements, they impressively still manage to remain positive)? (for magazines and very large websites, the business model is different as free items are not so essential, most of their income being instead generated by the advertisements. Following a clearly negative review, a company will "cancel" its ads at a magazin, i.e. decreasing its income). I speak many modern languages (e.g. French, Dutch, English, German, etc.) and in all these languages these magazines do the same thing...

"Reviewers" (in the sense of those having systematic, intensive reviewing activity going at length beyond it being a mere hobby) daring to write negative reviews are exceptional, I only know three cases: Tyll Hertsens (but once he issued a negative review about an item of a given company, in some cases the given company would not send him further models; and he honestly would send the items back to the companies, not selling them second hand), Crinacle (he borrows items from shops and people) and Amir (ASR, he reviews items belonging to people, who usually ship them to him, and he back to them). The point is not to discuss these later person's reviews, but only the principle with which they obtain most of the products they review.
He usually begins his reviews with where the unit to be reviewed came from.
In many cases these are loaner items, lent to him for a certain amount of time.
Since the Solitaire P-SE isn't officially released yet, this is likely also the case here.

Musicalhead doesn't write negative reviews, since he is very picky about the items he reviews.
Only the best of the best, and if he doesn't like it he won't invest the huge amount of time that these thorough reviews require.
However he certainly points our flaws and shortcomings of the reviewed items and compares them to others.

Personally I am in the comfortable Position to have heard many of the reviewed products. Therefore I can confirm his findings and trust his reviews, since it turned out that we hear similarly.
 
Dec 31, 2020 at 9:57 AM Post #270 of 1,455

brams

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Posts
280
Likes
180
In my opinion if a reviewer receives an item for review and does not like it at the very least a comment should be made to that effect without the need for a thorough review.

A reviewer could easily say: "I received item A for review, but decided not to do a thorough review because I was bothered by what appeared to be a wonky bass, depressed upper midrange and shelved down lower treble compared to my reference item B on my test system. The manufacturer will evaluate and submit another sample for review if they see fit to do so."

This makes it clear that the reviewer had an issue with the product, but leaves open the possibility that the issue might be sample related.

I have never understood the argument about reporting only on items that are liked. It raises the following question. Is the purpose of a review to only tell the audience why the reviewer likes an item OR to describe how an item performs relative to some established reference and other products targetted at the same market?
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top