T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic
Dec 25, 2020 at 1:03 PM Post #241 of 1,459

Bonddam

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I tried simulating the ultra-wide earpads with EQ between 450 to 2500 Hz region and tried different well recorded music of different types.

I personally didn't like it and don't see a reason to use it, if you are not listening to something like a solo piano. It does not even work for orchestral music. If the idea is so that you turn up the volume by 2dB to reach the same mid level, effectively increasing the rest of the spectrum, for most of the crowded music out there it brings the treble to unlistenable levels - and this contradicts the reason to buy this HP, which is the upper mids / treble sensitive people. Besides this actually costs mids clarity.

So, I wouldn't recommend it. Besides it is easy to simulate with a simple EQ.
I wish this brand was sold on internet. I have to buy from a store in Florida. That store then has to order from Germany then when Florida receive it ship it to me in Pennsylvania. Guess next year I’ll have them.

I’m going to place an order for ear pads. I know you said eq but my itch has made up it’s mind for me. I’ll post what I think.
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 2:26 PM Post #242 of 1,459

arijitroy2

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I had the TH900 and sold it (one of my regrets). It was fun to play games with it (I used to play Dying Light). If it is about bass and treble, I haven't heard anything better - though it is pretty bright. But now I have the D9200 which is not as V tuned as TH900 - more like U. It is not as resolving as a planar but doesn't lack anything on clarity. Tuning is great. It still is an hidden gem, looks like. I would highly recommend to test it if you are looking for a less weight closed semi-portable with very good, punchy and clean bass. I love it, but my wife says it is like the kick is punching her ears. It also doesn't leak much.

Anyway, back to Solitaire. :)
You got the T+A Solitaire P? Congratulations! You're making me jealous! Solitaire P and the HA200 is supposed to be my endgame! Have you posted a small comparison with the rest of the headphones in your stable yet?

Edit - Just saw your impressions with the rest of the HPs, very nice! I might look into the new one SE, will wait for a reivew on that first. Also have D8000 on my radar. Need one that will be good with classical music and has a big soundstage and nice bass but not bloated!
 
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Dec 26, 2020 at 4:30 AM Post #243 of 1,459

DarginMahkum

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You got the T+A Solitaire P? Congratulations! You're making me jealous! Solitaire P and the HA200 is supposed to be my endgame! Have you posted a small comparison with the rest of the headphones in your stable yet?

Edit - Just saw your impressions with the rest of the HPs, very nice! I might look into the new one SE, will wait for a reivew on that first. Also have D8000 on my radar. Need one that will be good with classical music and has a big soundstage and nice bass but not bloated!

Thank you. :) I summarized them in the D8000 thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...gnetic-headphone.845567/page-76#post-16051452

You can think of D8000 Pro as the more technically advanced, open back D9200, as they are tonally very similar for my ears. D8000 Pro has a bit tamed bass and treble, I guess. I think D8000 Pro is technically also a bit ahead of Solitaire P with bit higher resolution and speed, you hear it when you put it over your ears.

Solitaire P has less wow effect for resolution. Especially before the burn in. But you have more enjoyment in long duration listening, as it is exactly for that. You have a larger space (but because D8000 has more air and a bit better resolution, it feels like it has more depth). So a well made orchestral recording sounds awesome! Plus / minus everything I mentioned in the summary.

But one thing for sure is that, if I wouldn't have the D8000 Pro, I most probably wouldn't have the Solitaire P - which complements D8000 with similar technicalities, larger 3D image, warmer sound and bigger bass. Plus you can find D8000 Pro for way better price new or used.

I wish this brand was sold on internet. I have to buy from a store in Florida. That store then has to order from Germany then when Florida receive it ship it to me in Pennsylvania. Guess next year I’ll have them.

This is the case for us here 95% of the time, that the non-EU productions are considerably more expensive and harder to acquire, for our niche hobby market. But because these are produced in Germany, not in China, they cost less than in the US and, of course, easier to acquire.
 
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Dec 26, 2020 at 8:33 AM Post #244 of 1,459

Bonddam

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Thank you. :) I summarized them in the D8000 thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...gnetic-headphone.845567/page-76#post-16051452

You can think of D8000 Pro as the more technically advanced, open back D9200, as they are tonally very similar for my ears. D8000 Pro has a bit tamed bass and treble, I guess. I think D8000 Pro is technically also a bit ahead of Solitaire P with bit higher resolution and speed, you hear it when you put it over your ears.

Solitaire P has less wow effect for resolution. Especially before the burn in. But you have more enjoyment in long duration listening, as it is exactly for that. You have a larger space (but because D8000 has more air and a bit better resolution, it feels like it has more depth). So a well made orchestral recording sounds awesome! Plus / minus everything I mentioned in the summary.

But one thing for sure is that, if I wouldn't have the D8000 Pro, I most probably wouldn't have the Solitaire P - which complements D8000 with similar technicalities, larger 3D image, warmer sound and bigger bass. Plus you can find D8000 Pro for way better price new or used.



This is the case for us here 95% of the time, that the non-EU productions are considerably more expensive and harder to acquire, for our niche hobby market. But because these are produced in Germany, not in China, they cost less than in the US and, of course, easier to acquire.

cost more then Susvara
 
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Dec 26, 2020 at 8:39 AM Post #245 of 1,459

ThanatosVI

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cost more then Susvara
Totally depends on the Region.

I.e US 6000$ Susvara vs 6600$ Solitaire P
Germany 7000€(=8600$) Susvara vs 4800€(=5900$)
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 8:49 AM Post #247 of 1,459

DarginMahkum

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Totally depends on the Region.

I.e US 6000$ Susvara vs 6600$ Solitaire P
Germany 7000€(=8600$) Susvara vs 4800€(=5900$)

Yup, for us Susvara costs $8600 and SP2000 costs $4700 for us poor souls here. I am really happy that a local company stepped into the game.

By the way, although I find the D8000 Pro technically a bit ahead of Solitaire P, I have them both in front of me connected to the amp right now, but I most of the time reach out for the Solitaire P, as it sounds a more natural room like listening feeling - especially for orchestral music. Also the cups are more comfortable. Let's see, how it will progress in the next weeks.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 2:07 PM Post #248 of 1,459

brams

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@DarginMahkum thanks for your continued impressions on the Solitaire P. Glad to hear you were able to buy a unit at a good price. IMO from a build quality point of view alone it is a heirloom piece.

The fact that you find the D8000 pro to be technically ahead of the Solitaire P, but prefer the Solitaire P for long term listening mirrors my impressions compared to the Utopia. As I stated then, in a direct comparison the technical excellence of the Utopia stands out easily and I can see many users choosing it (and likely other technically capable headphones) over the Solitaire P purely on that basis. Given this initial impression, it is unlikely that many will take the time for the long term listening required to cement a better impression of the Solitaire P. Combine that with the high pricing and I doubt sales have met expectations.

One factor that may need to be considered is how loudly a user listens. I don't normally listen very loud, but do recall that during my auditions I had the Bartok set to about -20db or higher which is on the loud side for me. I think the Harman target curve is set for average to low listening levels so I am wondering if that factors into a user's impression of the impact of the upper midrange - lower treble depression. The unit is so low distortion that it is easy to listen much louder than normal and not realize it. Despite what the graphs indicate, in my audition with the new pads and listening at that higher than usual level the headphone definitely sounded better balanced than with the original pads.

Great news on the Solitaire P-SE. Assuming the tonal balance is similar, on paper it appears to offer much better value than the Solitaire P given the more agreeable price and the fact that it is supplied with a balanced cable. I suspect T+A will also use the opportunity to correct the frequency response issues with the original. Definitely looking forward to impressions and comparisons from @Musicalhead. The timing is great because I was just about to try to swing a Boxing Day deal for a Solitaire P demo version. Now I'll wait to see how the two compare. I do love the exquisite build quality of the original's aluminum cups though!

Incidentally, I too have the th900 and after initially liking them, the overdone bass and bright treble simply became too much for me. I ended up having them retuned by Lawton Audio (actually he used my unit to develop the tuning over a long period of time) and so happy with the result I still have them.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 2:47 PM Post #249 of 1,459

ThanatosVI

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@DarginMahkum thanks for your continued impressions on the Solitaire P. Glad to hear you were able to buy a unit at a good price. IMO from a build quality point of view alone it is a heirloom piece.

The fact that you find the D8000 pro to be technically ahead of the Solitaire P, but prefer the Solitaire P for long term listening mirrors my impressions compared to the Utopia. As I stated then, in a direct comparison the technical excellence of the Utopia stands out easily and I can see many users choosing it (and likely other technically capable headphones) over the Solitaire P purely on that basis. Given this initial impression, it is unlikely that many will take the time for the long term listening required to cement a better impression of the Solitaire P. Combine that with the high pricing and I doubt sales have met expectations.

One factor that may need to be considered is how loudly a user listens. I don't normally listen very loud, but do recall that during my auditions I had the Bartok set to about -20db or higher which is on the loud side for me. I think the Harman target curve is set for average to low listening levels so I am wondering if that factors into a user's impression of the impact of the upper midrange - lower treble depression. The unit is so low distortion that it is easy to listen much louder than normal and not realize it. Despite what the graphs indicate, in my audition with the new pads and listening at that higher than usual level the headphone definitely sounded better balanced than with the original pads.

Great news on the Solitaire P-SE. Assuming the tonal balance is similar, on paper it appears to offer much better value than the Solitaire P given the more agreeable price and the fact that it is supplied with a balanced cable. I suspect T+A will also use the opportunity to correct the frequency response issues with the original. Definitely looking forward to impressions and comparisons from @Musicalhead. The timing is great because I was just about to try to swing a Boxing Day deal for a Solitaire P demo version. Now I'll wait to see how the two compare. I do love the exquisite build quality of the original's aluminum cups though!

Incidentally, I too have the th900 and after initially liking them, the overdone bass and bright treble simply became too much for me. I ended up having them retuned by Lawton Audio (actually he used my unit to develop the tuning over a long period of time) and so happy with the result I still have them.
I also would have gotten a Demo unit of the Solitaire P but my aftermarket cable has some delay.

In the meantime the Solitaire P-SE was announced.
Really rooting for it, all Black looks better and it is much cheaper. However according to T+A the bigger brother delivers a little better in the bass department.

Probably will get both on a loan to test on my rig and decide then, howevrr that will take a few more weeks
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 8:00 PM Post #250 of 1,459

Newsee

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Please share your impressions when A/B ing with the Empyrean.
I am interested in the Solitaire P and my favourite pair of headphones are the Empyrean.

Would be nice to have a comparison in the classic sound disciplines, Bass muss treble soundstage etc.
In my favourite HP shop I did the A/B ing of the Solitaire P with the Empyrean, (almost) taylor made to my current listening habits, which might not suite most who is looking for HP in this price range. I was using Qobuz on my Kann Cube as source/dac/amp, high gain, SE output, stock cables. Empyrean with leather pads. Empyrean on level 78-80, Solitaire needed good 105+ (out of 150).
Gabrielle Alpin - My Mistake Acoustic - were producing too harsh s' and sh's on the Solitaire. Showing true nature of the ESS dac? On Empyrean it is well under sibilance limit.
Long distance calling - Aurora : at 00:29 starts a drum which is more life-like on the Solitaire. Definitely cleaner.
Alt-J - 3WW : At 00:03 starts something which sounds like trampling of elephants outside of the house on the Empyrean. On the Solitaire I could figure it was a big drum, but not strong and expressive, not on the visceral level that makes me listen to this song in an endless loop like on the Empyrean.
Conclusion: On the Cube I get better off with the Empyrean. I have it for almost 9 month now, I love it, I suppose it is forming my listening preferences. I do not need the Solitaire P until I get the HA200. I remember my last session, on the HA200 the Solitaire P was on a different level. Accoustic instruments like bass, cimbal were much more life-like on the Solitaire P. Perfect for jazz. I was listening to Carmen Gomes Inc. - God Bless the Child. It is a very good recording and starts with a fantastic bass solo. Gabriele Alpin was also not hissing. (Alt-j was not yet on the playlist 😊).

I am really courious how will it sound with the system of @ThanatosVI. I am thinking if that direction. The HA200 is having a dac which inherited a lot of features from the big brother (SDV 3100 HD) which was described by a german magazine shortly like "100%, more is not possible" , but I am not yet prepared to give that amount of money for one piece of equipment. The 8 ohm minimal output impedance is also surprisingly high for me - but it sounds that the Solitaire likes it.
 
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Dec 26, 2020 at 8:31 PM Post #251 of 1,459

ThanatosVI

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In my favourite HP shop I did the A/B ing of the Solitaire P with the Empyrean, (almost) taylor made to my current listening habits, which might not suite most who is looking for HP in this price range. I was using Qobuz on my Kann Cube as source/dac/amp, high gain, SE output, stock cables. Empyrean with leather pads. Empyrean on level 78-80, Solitaire needed good 105+ (out of 150).
Gabrielle Alpin - My Mistake Acoustic - were producing too harsh s' and sh's on the Solitaire. Showing true nature of the ESS dac? On Empyrean it is well under sibilance limit.
Long distance calling - Aurora : at 00:29 starts a drum which is more life-like on the Solitaire. Definitely cleaner.
Alt-J - 3WW : At 00:03 starts something which sounds like trampling of elephants outside of the house on the Empyrean. On the Solitaire I could figure it was a big drum, but not strong and expressive, not on the visceral level that makes me listen to this song in an endless loop like on the Empyrean.
Conclusion: On the Cube I get better off with the Empyrean. I have it for almost 9 month now, I love it, I suppose it is forming my listening preferences. I do not need the Solitaire P until I get the HA200. I remember my last session, on the HA200 the Solitaire P was on a different level. Accoustic instruments like bass, cimbal were much more life-like on the Solitaire P. Perfect for jazz. I was listening to Carmen Gomes Inc. - God Bless the Child. It is a very good recording and starts with a fantastic bass solo. Gabriele Alpin was also not hissing. (Alt-j was not yet on the playlist 😊).

I am really courious how will it sound with the system of @ThanatosVI. I am thinking if that direction. The HA200 is having an R2R dac, obviously inheriting a lot of features from the big brother which was described by a german magazine shortly like "100%, more is not possible" , but I am not yet prepared to give that amount of money for one piece of equipment. The 8 ohm minimal output impedance was also a bit questionable - but it sounds that the Solitaire likes it.
Actually the HA200 doesn't completely have R2R.
The DSD section is completely 1 bit Delta/Sigma.
The PCM section is a proprietary architecture consisting of 4x Delta/Sigma Chips.

However it has one oversampling Mode said to have a very R2R like sound signature.

I am too deep into my Systems optimisation already, but I would have loved to hear the Ha200 - certainly would not have been more expensive.
 
Dec 27, 2020 at 5:23 AM Post #252 of 1,459

DarginMahkum

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@DarginMahkum thanks for your continued impressions on the Solitaire P. Glad to hear you were able to buy a unit at a good price. IMO from a build quality point of view alone it is a heirloom piece.

The fact that you find the D8000 pro to be technically ahead of the Solitaire P, but prefer the Solitaire P for long term listening mirrors my impressions compared to the Utopia. As I stated then, in a direct comparison the technical excellence of the Utopia stands out easily and I can see many users choosing it (and likely other technically capable headphones) over the Solitaire P purely on that basis. Given this initial impression, it is unlikely that many will take the time for the long term listening required to cement a better impression of the Solitaire P. Combine that with the high pricing and I doubt sales have met expectations.

One factor that may need to be considered is how loudly a user listens. I don't normally listen very loud, but do recall that during my auditions I had the Bartok set to about -20db or higher which is on the loud side for me. I think the Harman target curve is set for average to low listening levels so I am wondering if that factors into a user's impression of the impact of the upper midrange - lower treble depression. The unit is so low distortion that it is easy to listen much louder than normal and not realize it. Despite what the graphs indicate, in my audition with the new pads and listening at that higher than usual level the headphone definitely sounded better balanced than with the original pads.

Great news on the Solitaire P-SE. Assuming the tonal balance is similar, on paper it appears to offer much better value than the Solitaire P given the more agreeable price and the fact that it is supplied with a balanced cable. I suspect T+A will also use the opportunity to correct the frequency response issues with the original. Definitely looking forward to impressions and comparisons from @Musicalhead. The timing is great because I was just about to try to swing a Boxing Day deal for a Solitaire P demo version. Now I'll wait to see how the two compare. I do love the exquisite build quality of the original's aluminum cups though!

Incidentally, I too have the th900 and after initially liking them, the overdone bass and bright treble simply became too much for me. I ended up having them retuned by Lawton Audio (actually he used my unit to develop the tuning over a long period of time) and so happy with the result I still have them.

Thank you, I am glad it is useful, although they are pretty subjective in general.

Yes, the build quality is excellent. But both for Solitaire and also for D8000, if building a "tank" was really needed. This kind of a product is anyway babied, so I wouldn't mind to have a lighter but not as robust material. 530g (both are about the same weight) is not feather light. :)

Technical performance is for sure an important aspect of sound, but at this level of super high end audio, it becomes a nitpicking parameter. If you concentrate in hearing the difference in speed or resolution and if you pick the right recording, you notice it. But human hearing is very adaptive. For example I was comparing the two and trying to attain a tuning on Solitaire similar to D8000, and then sometimes I forget the EQ on after switching to D8000 and then turn it off while listening, D8000 Pro suddently sounds very warm. Or sometimes it becomes overly bright just going from Solitaire to D8000 - which has actually has quite leaner and warmer signature compared to Utopia (which I mentioned to be extremely aggressive for my ears).

I do agree, though, that the 2 to 3 dB increase in the 3kHz dip region might have satisfied more people, and still keep people like me satisfied. That could have made the solo piano sound a bit richer in upper registers and harmonics. But the upper mids gap between Utopia and Solitaire is so radically large, so I am not sure how a common ground can be found. D8000 Pro is kind of that common ground, but it cannot keep up with the size of the sound wall Solitaire is producing.

For the cable, actually, Solitaire P comes with a balanced cable of your choice, XLR or Pentaconn. But the problem is both SE and balanced cables are 3 meters, which is actually pretty long. I was thinking of getting a 1.5m T+A cable, but they don't have one in their inventory, which is weird - especially now that an easier to drive SE version is coming out which is easier to drive from a portable.
 
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Dec 27, 2020 at 6:49 AM Post #255 of 1,459

DarginMahkum

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I have been listening to this album for a very very long while. It is a show off album for members of the trio, Aziza Mustafazade, John Patitucci and Dave Weckl. But with Solitaire P it is for sure the most satisfying headphone rendition so far. You can pretty much follow the complete bass line. D8000 has _a bit_ clearer bass (also more intimate), but the instruments here are integrated here better, yet very well separated, and again the size of the sound is impressive. Besides a single bell EQ achieves a similar clarity. Also, the cymbals are much more ear friendly without lacking any detail like a subtle hihat touch. Wow!


I think the bass and especially bass - mids transition improved considerably with burn in.
 
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