[Crazymoose]

So....
 
I am confused. I heard a while back that surround sound is not a real thing in headphones. That our brains process surround sound. Stereo headphones produce sound in a way that our brains translate it to surround. 
But now that i get into the audio world and bought a pair, I am looking up information about headphones and stuff. And i red that there is such a thing as virtual surround sound, created by particular sound cards.
 
Whats all this? Our brains did all the work right?
 
Can someone explain this?
 
Thx!

 

[drago10029]

  So....
 
I am confused. I heard a while back that surround sound is not a real thing in headphones. That our brains process surround sound. Stereo headphones produce sound in a way that our brains translate it to surround. 
But now that i get into the audio world and bought a pair, I am looking up information about headphones and stuff. And i red that there is such a thing as virtual surround sound, created by particular sound cards.
 
Whats all this? Our brains did all the work right?
 
Can someone explain this?
 
Thx!

 
For starters Surround Sound is real, it exist thru technologies like dolby headphone, dolby 5.1 and other formats but headphones don't naturally make 5.1 surround or dolby headphones.  Headphones have stereo sound aka 2.0.  The stuff we listen to from MP3, Game Console, movies create the sound in such a way that our stereo headphones deliver the sound to us so that it sounds like it's around us. Good soundstage gives our ears an good idea of where the sound is coming from and how far it is from us.  5.1 dolby sound basically attempts to take that stereo sound and feeling of sound being around us (aka soundatage) a step further.  Also Stereo sound and headphones are only 2 channels, the left ear cup and the right ear cup.  Makes sense so far? good.
 
So what sound cards/ sound processors do is take the stereo sound and place it around us aka dolby 5.1, 7.1, etc.  Stereo headphone with good soundstage can do what sounds processors, 5.1, 7.1 sound equipment do all on their own.  That's why you see people talk about soundstage and field of depth in the reviews here on head-fi.org. So a recap:
 
1. Headphones make stereo sound (2.0 sound)
2. Soundcards/sound processors (take 2.0 sound and recreate it into 5.1/7.1 sound, some good some bad)
3. Headphones with good sound stage, which means -->> (good sound depth/distance awareness)
 
Note: The general sense on head-fi (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that if your headphones have good soundstage, and have a good amp to power them is that you do not need 5.1, 7.1, or dolby stuff.
 
I hope this helps.  and I highly recommend your research videos, head-fi forums, look up words, etc.  I just learned all the above in a matter of reading a couple hours & it seems you would benefit from the same.

 

[Crazymoose]

   
For starters Surround Sound is real, it exist thru technologies like dolby headphone, dolby 5.1 and other formats but headphones don't naturally make 5.1 surround or dolby headphones.  Headphones have stereo sound aka 2.0.  The stuff we listen to from MP3, Game Console, movies create the sound in such a way that our stereo headphones deliver the sound to us so that it sounds like it's around us. Good soundstage gives our ears an good idea of where the sound is coming from and how far it is from us.  5.1 dolby sound basically attempts to take that stereo sound and feeling of sound being around us (aka soundatage) a step further.  Also Stereo sound and headphones are only 2 channels, the left ear cup and the right ear cup.  Makes sense so far? good.
 
So what sound cards/ sound processors do is take the stereo sound and place it around us aka dolby 5.1, 7.1, etc.  Stereo headphone with good soundstage can do what sounds processors, 5.1, 7.1 sound equipment do all on their own.  That's why you see people talk about soundstage and field of depth in the reviews here on head-fi.org. So a recap:
 
1. Headphones make stereo sound (2.0 sound)
2. Soundcards/sound processors (take 2.0 sound and recreate it into 5.1/7.1 sound, some good some bad)
3. Headphones with good sound stage, which means -->> (good sound depth/distance awareness)
 
Note: The general sense on head-fi (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that if your headphones have good soundstage, and have a good amp to power them is that you do not need 5.1, 7.1, or dolby stuff.
 
I hope this helps.  and I highly recommend your research videos, head-fi forums, look up words, etc.  I just learned all the above in a matter of reading a couple hours & it seems you would benefit from the same.

Would u say the Beyer Dynamic DT990 Pro have a good soundstage? Would i benefit from a soundcard or not?
Cause if I wil benefit from a soundcard I would buy a soundcard with good dac and virtual surround and a desktop amp.

If not, I would buy a desktop dac/amp (like the o2 maybe).

 

[drago10029]

Sorry I can't answer about the beyer dynamic,  You could try them out in a store or read reviews for that.  As far as benefiting form surround sound.  I would say tell me what you plan on listening to? and it depends on the audio source too, gaming console, PC, phone, etc.

 

[Crazymoose]

  Sorry I can't answer about the beyer dynamic,  You could try them out in a store or read reviews for that.  As far as benefiting form surround sound.  I would say tell me what you plan on listening to? and it depends on the audio source too, gaming console, PC, phone, etc.

I am planning on using it mostly for gaming on PC (thats why I was curious about this whole virtual surround thing). I did look up some things and I found out that my onboard sound (motherboard) supports 7.1, though  i do not know how good this quality is. So i was wondering if I use the 7.1 of my onboard and then use a dac/amp is this a possibility? That way i can check for myself if this 7.1 should give any differences in sound.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Your motherboard's integrated sound codec probably doesn't have any virtual surround features whatsoever in the drivers, as I highly doubt the motherboard manufacturer bothered to license them.
 
You can opt for a software approach (Razer Surround, X-Fi MB3, etc.), or you can just buy whatever sound card offers the virtual surround tech you want.
 
As for which virtual surround tech you want? That's up to you to decide because no one else has your ears and HRTF. There's demo videos all over YouTube, and Mad Lust Envy even put up a few on the first post of his huge headphone guide thread.

 

[drago10029]

what motherboard do you have?  my motherboard has the realtek virtual 7.1 surround sound.  If your motherboard has anything like that, you should check it out and see if it's good enough for your headset and needs, try it out with the demo video link that nameless posted.  Otherwise, you can get a good sound card.  there are lots of those that can give clean audio, have low SNR and even work as amps and of course, have better surround sound than most mother boards sound chips.

 

[Crazymoose]

  Your motherboard's integrated sound codec probably doesn't have any virtual surround features whatsoever in the drivers, as I highly doubt the motherboard manufacturer bothered to license them.
 
You can opt for a software approach (Razer Surround, X-Fi MB3, etc.), or you can just buy whatever sound card offers the virtual surround tech you want.
 
As for which virtual surround tech you want? That's up to you to decide because no one else has your ears and HRTF. There's demo videos all over YouTube, and Mad Lust Envy even put up a few on the first post of his huge headphone guide thread.

I really like the CMSS-3D but the cards are fairly expensive when i also have to buy a dac/amp. Second I liked the Z with the SBX. I really hate the dolby man, it is hidious :O. The z is fairly in budget for me. I was just wondering, the video i watched they had 30% and 100% sbx, I red on the interwebs it is a slider u can change yourself.
 
I am just wondering now if it would be wise to wait a bit longer and get the X fi (because i liked the cmss 3d more).

 

[Crazymoose]

  what motherboard do you have?  my motherboard has the realtek virtual 7.1 surround sound.  If your motherboard has anything like that, you should check it out and see if it's good enough for your headset and needs, try it out with the demo video link that nameless posted.  Otherwise, you can get a good sound card.  there are lots of those that can give clean audio, have low SNR and even work as amps and of course, have better surround sound than most mother boards sound chips

Would the z or a X fi power the DT990 pro 250ohms? Cause if it wil I would probably only need to buy a dac. I could save the money of the amp and buy the x fi. I stated in the post above i liked the cmss-3d.

 

[drago10029]

I think the Z cards might be a good fit then, just save up! and they support 600 ohms from what I saw on  newegg.  I'm not good at calculating power numbers for headphones so that's on you.  But the cmss 3D sounded really good!  was my first time hearing it and I was impressed at the clarity and accuracy over Dolby and the other two.  The Razer Surround was a bit warmer but the bass boost was on.

 

[Crazymoose]

  I think the Z cards might be a good fit then, just save up! and they support 600 ohms from what I saw on  newegg.  I'm not good at calculating power numbers for headphones so that's on you.  But the cmss 3D sounded really good!  was my first time hearing it and I was impressed at the clarity and accuracy over Dolby and the other two.  The Razer Surround was a bit warmer but the bass boost was on.

U mean the X fi? The z is cheaper and uses SBX. Let's say i buy the X fi. would i need a dac? (if not i need to plug my headphones direcly in the soundcard, but i would need a extention cable. Would this hurt the signal?

 

[drago10029]

I"m not sure if you would need a DAC.  I know the SBX cards I saw had that built in.  Also I only found USB X-Fi cards, could you link to an actual PCI full sized one?  And I'm not an expert but I believe a good quality extension cable would hurt audio quality, just don't buy a cheap one.

 

[Crazymoose]

  I"m not sure if you would need a DAC.  I know the SBX cards I saw had that built in.  Also I only found USB X-Fi cards, could you link to an actual PCI full sized one?  And I'm not an expert but I believe a good quality extension cable would hurt audio quality, just don't buy a cheap one.

Creative X-Fi Titanium: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/224550/creative-x-fi-titanium/specificaties/

 

[drago10029]

"The Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD features audiophile-grade components for high-quality playback of music, games and movies, including 122db SNR Digital-to-Analog Converters (DACs)"
 
Right in the product description ^^^
 
It didn't mention CMSS-3D like you wanted though.

 

[Crazymoose]

"The Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD features audiophile-grade components for high-quality playback of music, games and movies, including 122db SNR Digital-to-Analog Converters (DACs)"

Right in the product description ^^^

It didn't mention CMSS-3D like you wanted though.

Isn't cmss 3d the software from creatieve? It's drivers....

If i would know for certain that cmss3d comes on the Titanium. I think I am ging to buy it as it has everything on it.