suggestions on a good project? b22?

[el_matt0]

hey, ive just kinda gotten into DIY not too long ago and im looking to take on a bigger more serious project than the odd cmoy and cable that Ive been tinkering with. im pretty comfortable with my soldering ability so i dont think that should be a major issue. ive built a bunch of cmoys etc, and im now hoping to build something a little more substantial for my home headphone setup. currently i use a gilmore lite, but if i would be able to build anything a "step up" from that for my dt990s that would be awesome. i was looking at the beta 22 perhaps? how difficult of a step up would this be from something like the cmoy? obviously its more complex, but in terms of difficulty in building it and getting it working...? as well what kind of quality could i expect from it? id also be open to any suggestions, im probably looking to spend in the 150-300 dollar range on parts. if it makes any diff, the main pair of cans id be using with it is recabled dt990s and i listen mostly to rock. hope you guys can offer me some advice!

 

[Clutz]

I don't recommend building a Beta22 as a first serious amplifier. I've built two PPAv2s, a Millett-Hybrid, a Dynalo and two DACs before I tried to build a Beta22. Perhaps amb or n_maher would disagree with me, but I don't think of the Beta22 as an intermediate project. I'd recommend an M3, a CKIII or a PPAv2 first. If you go with an M3, build a Sigma11 as a power supply, and then once you've got that up and going, you can always sell it on the forum for as much as it cost you to build - and then you've got some more building experience.

Further, a Beta22 will cost you a lot more than $300 in parts. I am pretty sure that I have spent more than $500 on my (oh so close to being finished, but not yet quite there) Beta22. The power supply alone will probably cost you about $120 to build, once you factor in the cost of shipping.

 

[kipman725]

should be easier than a cmoy as your using a PCB. Only hard part is picking components which AMB has wrote pretty exhaustive guides on.

 

[user18]

Here's a thread at headwize w/ all the various diy amp offerings with price ranges.
http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6339

Jeff Rossel sells complete kits. You could end up saving some $$$ by buying from him. $300 is do-able if you already have parts for the case; but that's without an active ground.
http://glassjaraudio.com/categoryNav...g?categoryId=2

 

[Clutz]

Building a cmoy from tangent's tutorial without a proper PCB is a much easier, much less complicated build than a Beta22. It's easier to build the cmoy following tangents tutorial than it is to just build the Sigma22 power supply.

Each of the Beta22 board kits costs $70. Since you need three for the 3 channel version of the Beta22, that's $210 right there. The power supply Sigma22 kit from Jeff Rossel is $91. That's $300.

Excluding the cost of the cases from the build is kind of silly, because it's a substantial part of the budget. I spent $60, including shipping, for my case. A volume pot costs ~$16 for a Alps Blue - more for anything fancier. A decent set of RCA jacks will cost another $10-$20.

Assuming you follow amb's recomendation and put the power supply in a separate case from the rest of the amp (anyone who doesn't think that this is a good idea should talk to n_maher and ask him about the fun he had getting rid of the transformer induced hum), so you will also need adapters to make the umbilical cord to go from the Sigma22 to the Beta22. The Amphencol connectors recommended by amb cost $40 for two male and two female parts, which you will need to connect the Sigma22 and Beta22
together.


And then you have to buy #4-40 nuts and bolts, plus a #4-40 screw tap. I've probably spent $25 on that stuff.

That's $435 right there.


And the Beta22 build is *significantly* more involved than any of the other amps I've put together. I've built it slowly because of a lack of time and it has still been involved. I highly doubt anyone who has built this amp would recommend it to a beginner.

 

[khbaur330162]

That price is with using pretty cheap/mid-grade parts too, right? I heard it cost almost $1,000 just in parts to build a balanced ß22... Then again, it's pretty hard to find decent pots for a balanced configuration, so a lot of that cost is going to go into your stepped attenuator.

 

[ericj]

I've seen scary things happen to pimeta boards, so I'm not one to suggest that just because it's a printed board it's gonna be easy.

The B22 is way off the mark for a 2nd build.

Does the millet max still have the buf634 circuit on the board? That could be a good incremental board - start simple, add diamond buffer later.

 

[el_matt0]

would the m3 be a more suitable mid-point? ive gotten alot of mixed opinions about this ><

 

[el_matt0]

or maybe even the ppa? the thing is..im looking/hoping for it to be a step UP from my gilmore lite, what i use currently. i would build with whatever amp i decide on an additional PSU like the steps or sigma11 (any recommendations here?). oh...and one stupid question, whats the second knob on the m^3 amp (and some ppa's ive seen), a bass boost?

 

[n_maher]

Here are my thoughts, hopefully you'll learn from my experience. Although, that said, a lot of good knowledge comes from poor judgement...

If I had to recommend a project I'd second the PIMETA recommendation. Most of the amps that people are talking about having you build are simple enough on the surface. But dig around this forum and you'll quickly find that when things go wrong, even on something as simple as a PIMETA they care be a bear to figure out and not necessarily cheap to fix. The PIMETA, nicely optioned and built for home use wont max out you budget but so what? It's a heck of an amp and three years ago was about the best thing going. Built with nice parts and a decent power supply (like a TREAD for example) it'll run with a lot of amps costing many times its parts cost.

Up from that level of build you're playing with fire, literally. The M³/PPA range of DIY builds will really be stretching your budget unless you're very crafty with your ordering our have access to non-traditionally sourced parts. And lord help you if something goes wrong - I once spent the better part of 3 months (not to mention several hundred dollars) trouble shooting a PPA V2 after its original builder smoked a buffer trying to adjust the bias. Just search for "ppa smoking resistor" and you'll find the thread.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is take it slow, build up some knowledge and skills and don't feel like you have to make quantum leaps. Every step I've taken along the DIY path has brought both improved sound quality and also valuable lessons that have helped with builds later on. A pile of parts does not guarantee a working amplifier.

That's my 2¢,

Nate

P.s. And like Clutz mentioned, I've been battling hum in my beta22 for 4 months. Fixing that problem alone will have cost ~$100 when it's all said and done.

 

[Clutz]

I don't think that you will find that a PPA is a step up from a Gilmore LIte. I have had a PPAv2 (well, two of them), a Millett Hybrid and a Dynalo (essentially a Gilmore Lite). I've given away one PPA, sold another, and sold the Millett, only choosing to keep the Dynalo.

DIY is not a good way to get an amplifier made for you, cheaper. I had trouble with my PPA build as well. I totally had to start over a second time (hence the two PPAs...) before I was able to figure out my error and get both of them to work. The Millett Hybrid was quite a bit easier, but that was after I built the PPA and the Dynalo (Gilmore Lite).

Seriously, it will cost you at least $500 in parts for everything - the fiddly bits add up - to build a Beta22. If you think you want one, and you don't want to spend $300-$500 on building other amps to get your skill level up to what you need it to be to even consider tackling a Beta22, then just contact one of the professional builders listed on amb's website and have them build one for you. It will be a lot cheaper in the end.

A lot... I've spent way more than $1500 on DIY so far. I could've bought a hell of a nice amp and source for that. But, I like soldering bits of stuff together. I don't reallly understand all the electronics details, but I like the building. So for me, it's worthwhile - cause it's a hobby that I also enjoy AS a hobby, so I'm getting double the value out.

I've seriously considered sending my nearly finished Beta22 to a professional builder to get them to finish it because I"ve been so frustrated -particularly with the nitty gritty details of the case work.

 

[Mazuki]

I think the M^3 would be a good choice. The parts count on it is actually quite low. Which means if you do screw up, there's not too many things to fix.

The PPA in contrast, is much more complex in terms of the number of solder joints you have to tend to.

Also, you don't have to buy the fancy STEPS power supply, a simple $17 Tread will do (plus $5 wall wart). The $3 Panasonic pot works just the same as the Alps Blue.

 

[el_matt0]

despite SOMe peoples strong words of caution..i think im going to be eager and TRY the b22..im gunna take my time on it and make it a big project, so hopefully all goes well. i know if i need guidance there are so many of you helpful DIYers out there (who will probably at that point ridicule me for not heeding their advice and trying an easier project ). the 3 channel grounded version is the most commonly made correct?

 

[cotdt]

Beta22 would be a GREAT idea for a 1st project. there are very good directions to walk you through the build on amb's website. i built mine while playing games and doing homework. i didn't even read amb's directions (didn't know they existed at the time) and the amp worked the first time, the S22 and all 4 amp boards. i've built dozens of amps and never had to "troubleshoot" any of them, and no hum problems either.

this is a very easy amp to build, i think even a monkey can do it. ti kan has already done the hard part for you by designing the amp, bravo to amb industries! since your family builds cases, the hardest part of the amp to others, is not an issue to you. you will have a lot of fun, i'm glad i talked you into this.

 

[Nebby]

I've decided to build a beta22 as my 2nd project. I'm going with two ε22 backplane boards and going with that. Might as well go all the way if I'm going to do something serious right?

My first project will be a speaker amp, seeing as how I'm already in the process of building a pair of bookshelf speakers. I was thinking of building the Twisted X Overture amp. On the downside, documentation isn't nearly as thorough as amb's.