SubPac for Sub Referencing

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by iatebillymays, Mar 7, 2014.
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  1. nephilim32

    Absolutely man! You give great advice and advocacy for the headphone cable splitter. I do the same and the sound quality is not effected at all.
    If you ask me, the 'Splitter cable' saves the functionality of the SubPac's ass!!!
    With the splitter flagship headphones with a high impedance can be paired beautifully with the SubPac. :musical_note::notes:
  2. BassDigger
    Here's a webpage with a test tone: 150Hz descending to 1Hz:

    I haven't (yet) got a subpac. But when I do, this'll be one of my first 'tests'!
    My D2000's are packed away, but trying the tone with the headphones that are in use, plugged into my dac-x6, the LCD2f loses a little as the tone goes down through 40hz, then rolls off sharply below 30hz. My Ultrasone HFI-650's (closed cans) seem to roll-off faster from 40hz, but ultimately hold on a little better: the tone is just about audible 'til around 25hz. Although, the tone does sound 'cleaner', through the Audeze phones.
    This is all with my hearing, of course: everyone hears differently. But, the subpac adds the infrasonic realm. It'll be interesting to hear about how this tone 'sounds', through it.
    On the subject of splitter cables, I think that unless your headphone amp has a pre-out (maybe you'd still need an rca -> 3.5mm cable), a splitter cable is a necessity. If you use the headphone output of the subpac, you'd be essentially using this unit as your headphone amp: it won't matter how good, or well matched, your 'proper' headphone amp is (well, it might help the bass), because your headphone amp is connected to the subpac, not your phones! Surely this is going to be more of a negative, for sq, than an extra cable/connection.
  3. fjrabon
    Notice this thread has gone a little dormant.  Just ordered one of these, should  be here tomorrow or saturday.  Excited to try it.  I plan to run mine through an entirely separate DAC from my HD800.  My HD800 chain is macbook pro -> optical -> modi multibit -> TorpedoIII.  I plan to separately run an Audioengine D1 DAC to the Subpac via USB.  This will somewhat have the downside of them having completely separate level controls, but to me that's a pro and a con.  It's a little more inconvenient for level changing, but does allow for faster control of their relative levels.  But yeah, no way in the world I'm using the amp built into the subpac with any pair of headphones I own, let alone my HD800.  I wouldn't even use it on my efficient cans.
    I don't really have any expectations for it.  I could see it being anything from a kind of fun gimmick to a really nice effect that enhances my experience.  I got the M2 and plan on wearing it on the front.
  4. phoenixdogfan
    You;ll be very pleasantly surprised at what the subpac can do.
  5. nephilim32
    ^^ absolutely. :)

    The SubPac is a thing of beauty. It's not just some simple vibrational box. This tactile subwoofer (inverted) responds to producing all the various pitches and tones in the low end frequency spectrum with alarming accuracy and timing for your most favored recordings.
    I also recommend grabbing a headphone splitter so you can maximize superior volume control direct from your amp instead of the SubPac control box. Trust me, it's so much better.

    Lastly, a few music recommendations that are glorious with the SubPac and really showcase it's range. :)

    Depeche Mode-- Remixes (1981-2004)
    Skinny Puppy-- Last Rights
    The Hieroglyphic king-- Discos of Imenotep
    The Devin Townsend Project-- transcendence

    All of these are a thing of beauty but you'll discover more! Be prepared to re-listen to your entire music collection. :)
  6. fjrabon

    Don't plan on using a splitter because I plan on using different DACs for the headphone and subpac. Subpac will be fed by the audioengine d1, HD800 will be fed by Modi Multibit into TorpedoIII.
  7. fjrabon
    so, just got it up and running.  The most fascinating thing to me is that it makes me seemingly "hear" the bass with my ears more.  Like I know it's an audio illusion, but the bass guitar on Fiona Apple's Criminal sounds louder with subpac on.  Because they're running completely independently through entirely different DACs, I can control the subpac's and my HD800's volume completely independently.  And when I turn down the subpac without even touching the HD800's volume, it SOUNDS like the bass is going down as well.  Like it seems like just in my ears it's less loud without the subpac on.  At first I though that maybe I was hearing some bleed through the open HD800s, but the effect still happens with sealed IEMs.  And I don't hear anything coming from the subpac if I have the HD800s turned all the way down.  But when they're working together, the subpac seems to make bass sound louder, seemingly, to my ears.  So funny.  
    I have also noticed with the M2, wanting to wear it on the front, getting a good tight fit seems key.  Just casually having it lay there doesn't have the same effect, it's almost like the bass gets loose and unrefined.  
  8. nephilim32

    Hey man. Sounds like you've got a real 'feel' for it. :wink:
    I'm really happy another head-fi'r had discovered this beast like I have.
    It also sounds to me that you are definitely utilizing the sub PAC properly, especially for headphone volume control which is key! You can definitely keep doing what you are doing or the headphone splitter works just as well if you care to have a more simple set up and utilize the intensity control a little easier.
    Anyway, really cool man!
    Hey? I think the reason you feel the bass is louder is perhaps due to you being able to feel it down to 20hertz. :wink:
    It's just some trickery of the senses.
    Also, I have the HD 800's as well and I think it's an awesome pairing.

    Enjoy! And let us know on here some of your favored albums with it.
    I just spun Dream Theater's train of thought.
    Absolutely outstanding. :)
  9. fjrabon

    the biggest thing I've noticed with it is that it's less of an album specific thing than I thought it would be.  I like classic rock with it.  Even though I can barely consciously feel it with a lot of classic rock, like I mentioned above, it seems to make the bass sound fuller.  I don't listen to a ton of per se bass heavy music.  My goal with the Subpac is to get a more speaker like feeling to all my music, rather than feeling like I am standing in front of a sub an EDM festival.  THough admittedly the EDM festival feeling can be fun on occasion.
    The issue with me just using a splitter is that the subpac would be getting a pretty massively EQd signal, as I use sonarworks with the HD800.  When I tried using a splitter the ultra low frequencies were too intense, but 100 Hz wasn't intense enough.  I think this was because of the EQ settings I use for the HD800.  When I went separate to DACs, the Subpac seemed a bit more correct in how it reacted to ultra low and mid bass compared to one another.  
    As far as I can tell the intensity knob is just the subpac equivalent of volume, correct?  How I tend to use it is I get a decent mid level volume with my amp that feeds the subpac, so that I like it with the Subpac's intensity right in the middle.  I thereafter use the subpac's intensity knob to fine tune.  
  10. phoenixdogfan
    I've noticed that as well.  It has everything to do with that being the way we actually hear bass in the real world.  We not only hear deep bass, we feel it with our bodies.  That's the gestalt ofdeep bass. When the tactile element is missing, our perceptual apparatus tells us something is missing and we don't "hear" the bass.
    With the subpac, the trick is to find the right level match so the tactile part is not calling too much attention to itself.  When you achieve the sweet spot, it just sounds like really deep bass.
    Adds about half an octave of deep bass to the HD 800's, now doesn't it?
  11. fjrabon

    To me it's not so much that it adds an octave, as with Sonarworks, my HD800 was pretty flat down to 20Hz.  What it does for me is makes all the bass, from about 150Hz all the way down, seem a bit more "real life."  And yeah, that's all about finding that oh so tiny sweet spot.  I basically turn it up to where I can just barely notice it, and then turn it down a hair below that, so that I'm only really noticing it vibrating consciously on really intense stuff, but it's still there on all the other bass, it's just blending and giving the headphone bass that needed "oomph" that headphones lack, even bass monster headphones (and the HD800 with Sonarworks can very much be a bass monster headphone).
  12. fjrabon
    Pearl Jam's greatest hits album (rearview mirror) sounds freaking amazing with this thing.  It allows the bass to have the proper punch, while not clouding the midrange.  
  13. phoenixdogfan
    People don't realize that about the HD 800 b/c they don't have access to the Sonarworks unlimited curve, but with it, the headphone does subsonic with definition.
  14. fjrabon

    The HD800's distortion levels at high power in the bass are outstanding, so if you just feed it some level it's an INCREDIBLE bass headphone.

    Listening to Miles Davis Kind Of Blue 24/192 right now. Who says you need electronic music to benefit from subpac? This was an entirely acoustically recorded album and subpac is bringing a natural fullness to it that even bass heavy headphones can't.
  15. fjrabon
    Dear god IMG_8062.png

    I think I like subpac best with quick impactful bass. Some electronic music has that sort of loose rambling bass that almost annoys me. Give me the snappy kick drum punch.
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