Stereo to Mono Amp/Player/Headphones
Jan 27, 2020 at 1:57 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

ameo

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First of all: Please excuse my poor knowledge of your language, as I am from Germany.
I am born def on one ear. Up til now I used my Ipod classic in conjunction with Ultimate Ears UE1.
UE1 seems to be off the market,- furthermore I had a lot of problems with it during the last years.
I am searching for a portable Player, that has a Mono output, or a headphone, also mono.
All hiEnd players (Astel+Kern, Fiio, Lotoo) seem to be stereo only. With my ear problem, this means,
when I connect a set of standard headphones, I will only hear one channel of the music.
Hopefully there will be a better solution.
Thanks a lot for any suggestion.
Felix
 
Jan 27, 2020 at 10:28 PM Post #2 of 12
Cowon players have DSPs that might allow for mono output.

That said...why blow this much money on systems that won't get any semblance of imaging? If it's just for tonal quality the UE1 might not drastically sound better on a DAP vs a decent phone and LGs aren't likely to give up the headphone jack now that Samsung has opted to hand over the audiophile market. Just install a player app that has mono output.
 
Jan 28, 2020 at 2:29 AM Post #3 of 12
That said...why blow this much money on systems that won't get any semblance of imaging? If it's just for tonal quality the UE1 might not drastically sound better on a DAP vs a decent phone and LGs aren't likely to give up the headphone jack now that Samsung has opted to hand over the audiophile market. Just install a player app that has mono output.

Thanks,- the solution with a mobile is not what I want. I also need a large storage, as I want wo store my whole music collection on the player.
I searched on the net, but Cowon seems not to be very popular in Germany, so I found no address where to get detailed information from. The most important question for me is, if there is really a possibility to send out a mono signal, so that both sides of the earphones receive the left and right channel.
Who can answer this?
Thanks a loot
Felix
 
Jan 28, 2020 at 2:41 AM Post #4 of 12
Thanks,- the solution with a mobile is not what I want. I also need a large storage, as I want wo store my whole music collection on the player.
I searched on the net, but Cowon seems not to be very popular in Germany, so I found no address where to get detailed information from. The most important question for me is, if there is really a possibility to send out a mono signal, so that both sides of the earphones receive the left and right channel.
Who can answer this?
Thanks a loot
Felix

If you use a computer some player apps have mono summing just like in Android.

Otherwise you'd be out of luck since nobody makes dedicated music playback products with a unique self-defeating feature that very few need (ie removing the soundstage by going mono).
 
Jan 28, 2020 at 4:54 PM Post #5 of 12
No, I do not use a computer. I would like to have a portable unit, so that I can use it while I am on the train, bus and at home.
You are right: I tried to contact several distributors of HiRes players. No company has player where on the software side you can choose that both stereo channels are summed up.
When you google for "Headphones / def on one ear", you will find a lot of of people asking for this. If you have the disadvantage of being handcaped with only one functional ear, you have to have the best gear to improve the clearness of the sound of music. You all are talking about stereo sound. I do not know, I will never know,- what this means, as I never had a chance to hear it. But I love music. I am 26 years old, studying classical guitar since 19 years and after my bachelor in 2017 I hopefully will pass my exam for the master degree this summer.
 
Jan 29, 2020 at 12:40 AM Post #6 of 12
No, I do not use a computer. I would like to have a portable unit, so that I can use it while I am on the train, bus and at home.

Smartphone or tablet will be your best bet since you can just download the player app that has that feature.

Some like the Fiio X7 can run on Android mode and you can just download a player app that has it. Note though that these won't have the same level of customer support in case of bugs in the sense of "30,000 Fiio X7 sold, 50 users use this app vs 1,000,000 Galaxy S/Note/xx users that are experiencing bugs on this app." It's like my having a gain bug on Neutron Music Player (this has mono too) on my SGS3 years ago and it took six months before it got fixed. That's already a fairly common device.

One thing about the X7 and X5 3rd gen though: I think Fiio is phasing them out. The M-series is the new line, with lower power compared to the X-series, and AFAIK so far only the M15 can run Android.


You are right: I tried to contact several distributors of HiRes players. No company has player where on the software side you can choose that both stereo channels are summed up.
When you google for "Headphones / def on one ear", you will find a lot of of people asking for this.

I don't mean "few" in that it won't register in a Google search.

I mean something along the lines of my example above on the X7 vs Android phone brand numbers plus my common enough Android phone still taking that long for a bug to get fixed. And that was an app with EQ and Crossfeed so I couldn't ditch it. At least in your case there are others that sum in mono. Bottomline: if even on a fairly common phone it can take that long to fix, you have to have at least two such apps in case one gets a bug and support takes this long.

I mean there's a Manual Gearbox Preservation Society, so that's a lot of people on top of car magazine editors, but Toyota is still phasing out the manual gearbox option for the GT86; Honda isn't clear about what transmission is going on the S2000 replacement (which could be CVT), Lamborghini doesn't want slower 0-60 test numbers so good luck hoping for manual at a time when an auto gearbox and Quattro AWD only have to deal with one unknown variable (the driver's foot ie throttle angle) much less another dog-leg 1-2 shift with Reverse where First usually should be as was last seen on the Diablo...
If you have the disadvantage of being handcaped with only one functional ear, you have to have the best gear to improve the clearness of the sound of music. You all are talking about stereo sound. I do not know, I will never know,- what this means, as I never had a chance to hear it. But I love music. I am 26 years old, studying classical guitar since 19 years and after my bachelor in 2017 I hopefully will pass my exam for the master degree this summer.

Which is exactly my point. Audiophile manufacturers are focused on delivering imaging prowess, among other things, but there's a reason why they're not thinking about adding mono-summing into player software other than a few DAPs or player apps (like, don't expect a home audio server to do that): once you have an identical signal on both channels instead of two distinct signals everything shifts to the center. There won't be a real distinction between cymbal to the left or right of the drummer's seat, guitar 1 vs guitar 2, how a piano is recorded so somebody

It's really only this problematic with headphones since each ear hears only one driver. If you're using speakers, not that it will be the exact same thing as with two ears, but there's still going to be some semblance of imaging with just say a balance control. Your ear will still hear the sound coming from the other side, in-room, and get positional cues, you just bias the loudness a little bit off to that side. Of course, the problem here is you'd either have to install one in a car if it's mobile or at home which will be effectively fixed in that location.

So, back to a headphone solution...if you don't want to use a computer, you can use a smartphone with a player app that can do this. Choose a decent smartphone like LG since the power of the Quad DAC circuit gives a fair bit of flexibility in choosing what you can use with it. If you really don't want to use Android or LG's Android overlay, but are wary about the support limitations on running a Chinese DAP running Android (nor getting a Korean player), then just get a player app with this feature for whatever phone you use (assuming it isn't Apple so you can expand the storage capacity) and hook it up to a DAC-HPamp that will give you less distortion and more power than the phone's audio chip.

Now if you really want a DAP for some reason, there's still a work around. You don't need mono-summing on the fly, but you'll have to put in some work and use music editing apps on the copies of music you have and convert them all to mono.

Pros:
1.This will work with any player, including whatever fancy DAP you might want to get
2. Not running it on DSP saves CPU processing on your playback device, so the battery life is longer.

Cons:
1. You need a separate harddrive (that way you can keep the stereo files and use them for speaker systems)
2. It doesn't work on streaming services, even if you download the music from there.
 
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Jan 29, 2020 at 5:22 AM Post #7 of 12
Dear Ezra (just in case that this is your name)!
You are really a nice person and it is very kind that you spend so much time to help people like me with your knowledge and experience.
That is not common in times when people even do not have enough time to read an email, if it has more 2 lines.

Back to my problems. It might be my poor English or the rudimentary knowledge of the matter:
1. I could buy (e.g.) a Cell phone LG G8S /Androit 9/ SD Card up to 2TB storage for U$ 360,-
Add a DAC H Amp (e.G.) (Soundkey U$100,- or IFI XDSD US450,-)
Install the “Power Amp App Androit Player” for free.
Buy a reasonable Headphones U$350,- (Your advice ??)
2. Buy a Chinese or Korean DAP and have to convert my Songs from stereo to mono
(Have 30.000 titel on my Ipod Classic)
3. Ultimate Ears just offered me a UESS (Single Stereo) for U$ 500,- to use with my Ipod
Hopefully with the answer/recommendations to these questions I will be able to know which way to go.
Thanks
Felix

PS: Fiio just sent me an email, stating that the following DAPs have a mono output: FiiO M11 / M11 Pro und M15
 
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Jan 29, 2020 at 7:15 AM Post #8 of 12
Back to my problems. It might be my poor English or the rudimentary knowledge of the matter:
I could buy (e.g.) a Cell phone LG G8S /Androit 9/ SD Card up to 2TB storage for U$ 360,-
Add a DAC H Amp (e.G.) (Soundkey U$100,- or IFI XDSD US450,-)
Install the “Power Amp App Androit Player” for free.
Buy a reasonable Headphones U$350,- (Your advice ??)

This is the most convenient one since you can use the phone for many other things, even if it's not exactly the absolute best circuitry for driving headpones.

Speaking of which, you don't necessarily need headphones. Most of them have only one main advantage against IEMs - imaging - and in this case this is something you really can't utilize anyway, so there's nothing that offsets the bulk.

If you just need more low end performance, the larger drivers on headphones aren't even a clear winner there. Arguably, not even close. As much as theoretical physics would say a larger dynamic driver holds an advantage, in practice, the larger driver is in an earcup that doesn't seal and is farther out from your eardrums, its size being more than offset by ambient noise and how response changes as distance is changed (not to mention that even if it's too close that would just elevate the treble). BA IEMs with dedicated bass drivers, large dynamic driver IEMs, or hybrid (BA and DD together) designs tend to beat headphones on even that.

That said there is one reason for you to get headphones: if you just don't want to stick an IEM into your ear for any reason.

Either way if you do get an LG with Quad DAC maybe hold off on the DAC-HPamp first and try it without. IIRC it still put out around 70mW at whatever impedance triggers Quad DAC operation, and there's a way to manually enable it now that doesn't require rooting the phone. I only mentioned the DAC+HPamp option since it's something to match and even beat many DAPs for in terms of power and distortion levels just in case your have to use an IEM or headphone that requires more power, by your ears or by the numbers.

As for which headphone or IEM specifically, that depends. What sound are you looking for? Because even if most manufacturers are shooting for a flat response, since they can't get that, they opt for different compromises.


2. Buy a Chinese or Korean DAP and have to convert my Songs from stereo to mono
(Have 30.000 titel on my Ipod Classic)

Just one clarification.

If you get a Fiio (Chinese) or a Cowon (Korean) that has mono-summing on the fly, then no need to convert the file first.

Now if say the M11 is too expensive and you can't order a Cowon for some reason (or they no longer have this feature on any of their players), that's when you convert your files to mono and have the mono versions on any other DAP you can afford or import.

Also if your iPod songs are all ALAC double check DAPs you might order if they have any trouble playing that format, or any other that Apple uses.


3. Ultimate Ears just offered me a UESS (Single Stereo) for U$ 500,- to use with my Ipod

I'd just get this if you want a new IEM. If you get an LG with Quad DAC you can pretty much assume it won't have absolutely huge problems on it, other than maybe the normal (ie "low") gain on classical music that might need to have the Android or DAP cranked up.


PS: Fiio just sent me an email, stating that the following DAPs have a mono output: FiiO M11 / M11 Pro und M15

You'll have to decide if a rather dedicated, narrow use case device is worth it at that price over say an LG Vx0 (whatever version it's on now). In my case even if I can hear imaging cues on headphones the thing is my carrier will charge us, like, $45/mo on two phones (buy one phone, get an equivalent value voucher for another phone), and I'm not gonna get that from Amazon+Fiio for example. Now that Samsung is removing the headphone jack though I just might, unless we end up getting LGs.
 
Jan 31, 2020 at 8:07 AM Post #9 of 12
I think almost all of the Android-based DAPs should be able to do this unless they’re running highly modified software. Whether that’s worth buying a DAP for is a different issue - I have one because I wanted more powerful amplification about all else.

If I look at my DX220 accessibility settings I can toggle Mono mode, and the output (using Tidal in my case) goes to mono. This can be toggled on the fly. Tested it with the opening few minutes of Queen’s ‘Now I’m here’ which pans back and forth quite a bit. The perceived quality takes a bit of a hit for me because you’re messing with the mix, obviously.

so you would be fine with iBasso’s players, the DX160 might be a good more affordable option, ditto FiiO’s M11 and up models, and probably also Sony’s Android DAPs. I can only confirm this works for iBasso, do t have the others to test with.
 
Jan 31, 2020 at 8:23 AM Post #10 of 12
I think almost all of the Android-based DAPs should be able to do this unless they’re running highly modified software. Whether that’s worth buying a DAP for is a different issue - I have one because I wanted more powerful amplification about all else.

If I look at my DX220 accessibility settings I can toggle Mono mode, and the output (using Tidal in my case) goes to mono. This can be toggled on the fly. Tested it with the opening few minutes of Queen’s ‘Now I’m here’ which pans back and forth quite a bit. The perceived quality takes a bit of a hit for me because you’re messing with the mix, obviously.

so you would be fine with iBasso’s players, the DX160 might be a good more affordable option, ditto FiiO’s M11 and up models, and probably also Sony’s Android DAPs. I can only confirm this works for iBasso, do t have the others to test with.

If you would connect a BT headphone to your mono Player, (Fiio M11 Pro) do you thing this would also work ??
Thanks
Felix
 
Feb 10, 2020 at 5:53 PM Post #11 of 12
I would like to say "Thank You" for your help.
I meanwhile bought a Fiio M11 Pro and a Sennheiser Momentum 3.
So far I am happy with this combo.
Kindest regards from Germany
Felix
 
Feb 10, 2020 at 10:14 PM Post #12 of 12
If you would connect a BT headphone to your mono Player, (Fiio M11 Pro) do you thing this would also work ??
Thanks
Felix

If the player is digitally combining both signals to play on both sides before it hits the BT chip on that device to be sent out and received by the other BT chip on the headphone, then it should.

There can be software snags, like how Samsung's built in DSP only works via the 3.5mm jack or BT but not USB, but as much as there's a risk like this it's more of that you need to be aware that this can happen than to outright deter you.

If you're not using a smartphone though then it's best to confirm with owners of the DAP you're planning to get if it does work.
 

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