[hempcamp]

I plan to buy an audiophile (or close to it) "designer" unit for use with both headphones (AKG K501 or Beyer DT880 or Senn HD580) and speakers (B&W Leisure Monitor LM1) soon. What I mean by designer unit is something compact like the Marantz CR2020 -- the CDP, receiver, and amp all in one unit (or two small units like the more expensive Duetto).

I like the CR2020, but it apparantly does not have a built in Phono stage. I need a phono stage because I can't afford an outboard phono amp, and I plan to buy a turntable without the phono circuit built in (probably the Music Hall 2.1).

Any other recommended "designer" units similar to the Marantz CR2020, Duetto, etc? I particularly want something that will work well with hard-to-drive AKG K501 or Beyer DT880.

My budget is around $1000 for the whole system (speakers, turntable, receiver, cables), so I have roughly $400 available for the receiver. Less is good if it means I have to buy an outboard phono amp.

Thanks for the input.

--Chris

(This is mainly for classical & jazz listening.)

 

[bundee1]

Hey man if youre willing to pick up or meet me I have a Yamaha RXV1000 receiver for sale. Its about 2 and a half years old and in great shape. It meets all your needs. I live in Queens. You can pick up the whole system for $750 bucks. including
1 pair PSB alpha A/V
1 pair PSB orignal alpha
1 Sony sub
1 PSB alpha center
If youre interested in the receiver alone its $300. I paid $750 for it when I bought it.

 

[MacDEF]

Try to find a used NAD L40 (CDP, integrated amp, tuner in one chassis). You should be able to find one for $350-$400, and then you can get a decent phono stage to go with it. You'll be hard pressed to find a better all-in-one system at this price point.

 

[lini]

May I suggest the Teac AG-H300 or AG-H500? More info here: http://www.teac.com/ConsumerAudio/re...ence_Index.htm - it's nice to see those thingies life, though, because the build quality is really impressive...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Try to find a used NAD L40 (CDP, integrated amp, tuner in one chassis). You should be able to find one for $350-$400, and then you can get a decent phono stage to go with it. You'll be hard pressed to find a better all-in-one system at this price point.

Thanks, I'll look around for one of these. I had planned to buy a NAD integ. amp. anyway before I decided to get a combined unit (limited space!).

--Chris

 

[blr]

audiophile and all in one unit don't go together. If you want it to sound good than buy separates, if design is all important go with a system

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally posted by blr audiophile and all in one unit don't go together. If you want it to sound good than buy separates, if design is all important go with a system

blah blah blah

Does anyone else get sick of people trying to blanket-define what "audiophile" means without so much as an explanation, let alone a detailed analysis? I sure am -- it's the most frustrating thing around here.

I think the hoity-toities at Stereophile are obnoxious snobs, yet they themselves recommend the NAD L-40 all-in-one. If that ain't "audiophile" I don't know what is.

Audio+phile = lover of music, not "owner of ridiculously overpriced equipment". Not all lovers of music pay the cost of several new cars for their equipment, sorry.

--Chris

 

[pbirkett]

How about the Denon DM-31, outstanding performance for the money IMO.

Also Chris, I agree with you, I cannot stand audio snobs.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by hempcamp blah blah blah Does anyone else get sick of people trying to blanket-define what "audiophile" means without so much as an explanation, let alone a detailed analysis? I sure am -- it's the most frustrating thing around here. I think the hoity-toities at Stereophile are obnoxious snobs, yet they themselves recommend the NAD L-40 all-in-one. If that ain't "audiophile" I don't know what is. Audio+phile = lover of music, not "owner of ridiculously overpriced equipment". Not all lovers of music pay the cost of several new cars for their equipment, sorry. --Chris

You used the term audiophile in your initial post? If the term bothers you then don't use it. The definition of "Phile" is: One that loves or has a strong affinity or preference for ______. In the case of Audiophile that translates to: One that loves or has a strong affinity or preference for Audio. It's not just the music but the gear as well. Everything is subjective, how much money you have and how much you are willing to spend. In every hobby you have extremes, whether that be a stamp collector who uses $100/pr cotton free gloves and $400 specially designed tweezers or a guy who has $20,000/pr interconnects. It's all what you can afford and what you want to spend for that little ounce of performance. There are snobs with spendy gear but the vast majority of those with expensive digs are extremely passionate about music, they have music collections beyond belief.

Stereophile writer's snobs? Nah, not really. You must not read it. Sure, they review some hefty stuff but that's their job, and not only do they love the spendy stuff but they love it when those little diamonds in the rough come along and knock their socks off in price/performance too.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by blr audiophile and all in one unit don't go together. If you want it to sound good than buy separates, if design is all important go with a system

There's nothing that says an "all in one" unit can't sound just as good as expensive separates. The market, however (mainly because of snobby "audiophiles"), dictates that all-in-one units will be less expensive than comparable or better-quality separates.

So, yes, the best systems in the world right now are clearly separates. But to say that you can't get good sound from an all-in-one unit is ridiculous. The L40 sounds great, and in fact sounds better than pretty much any separates you can get for the same price. It has an integrated amp, RDS tuner, and CD player, all based on highly-acclaimed NAD separates, and can be found for around $350 used. This isn't a Sony or Aiwa minisystem.

 

[blr]

To hempcamp.
I agree with what Sean H already said and I'm not going to repeat it here.
I am not considering myself and audiophile although I enjoy the technical aspects of music reproduction. I also own a record collection that costs roughly 4 times more than all my HiFi hardware together.
To me there are 3 categories of audio products.
1. Those created mainly with style and functionality in mind
2. Those more or less ignoring the above and spending every cent on sound
3a. Combination of the two when both sound and style are compromised to arrive at reasonably looking and sounding equipment
3b. As above but at 10 times the price i.e. almost no compromise is being made in either.

To make it more clear just think about Bose and B&O and on the other extreme NAD and Cambridge Audio. 3a and b is everything inbetween. Unfortunately combining great style with great sonics comes at a high price. Hempcamp you're right that it doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way the market has evolved for several decades now and very few manufacturers are ready to put all the effort to change it.
Besides this there are, in some cases purely technical reasons why separates sound better. One box systems share power supplies and combine noisy circuits with sensitive ones, there is never enough separation between them shielding etc. It is not for nothing that even amps are split to pre and power for that reason. Few box systems should be OK though

 

[D-EJ915]

The phillips micro-systems sound (and look) pretty good, although the Onkyo and Teac ones from J&R sound better (they sell both, the phillips one is: MC77, Teac: REF100, Onkyo: CS210, MC-5TECH (same thing, but with inputs)

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by blr To me there are 3 categories of audio products. 1. Those created mainly with style and functionality in mind 2. Those more or less ignoring the above and spending every cent on sound 3a. Combination of the two when both sound and style are compromised to arrive at reasonably looking and sounding equipment 3b. As above but at 10 times the price i.e. almost no compromise is being made in either.

The problem is that products like the L40 don't fit in your categories. It includes an integrated amp based on an award-winning separate, a CD player based on an award-winning separate, and a tuner based on an award-winning separate, and then puts them all in a less expensive, all-in-one unit. Does the all-in-one L40 sound as good as the separates on which it is based? No, because they cut a few corners to make it less expensive than the separates (plus they're using much less physical material). But it sounds as good as pretty much any "audiophile separates" system you can put together for the same price.

And, more importantly in the context of this thread, it is an "audiophile" product, which is why I said that earlier comment was BS. The L40, Linn Classik, and similar all-in-one products are clearly audiophile-grade, and it's silly to make blanket statements about all-in-one systems not being "audiophile."

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by blr Besides this there are, in some cases purely technical reasons why separates sound better. One box systems share power supplies and combine noisy circuits with sensitive ones, there is never enough separation between them shielding etc. It is not for nothing that even amps are split to pre and power for that reason. Few box systems should be OK though

Yep. Those Manley and Cary integrated amps sure sound awful.

There are tradeoffs. The one box solution gets you the shortest possible signal path. This is a good thing.

It may be stylish in audiophile circuits to have multiple boxes, and it is likely necessary when you've got large monoblocks for your power amps. In a more moderately powered system, there's no technical reason an integrated shouldn't sound as good, if not better, than separates.

 

[hempcamp]

Whew, I didn't mean to set off so much of a firestorm, but thanks for the support from all of you.

I definitely understand enough about electronics to know why -- theoretically -- separate components can be superior, but also that -- theoretically -- an all-in-one could be superior (I spent 2 years studying EE before switching to the humanities). Of course, the market seems to prefer separate components. But it's really moot because the point is precisely that the term "audiophile" is plenty big enough to encompass more than just the highest-priced components, or those reaching towards theoretical limits.

A "lover of music" need only buy components or integrated systems that meet one criterion: that they make the music lover's listening as pleasurable as possible at the desired price point. "Audiophile" systems, therefore, have a much larger range than just $70,000 systems (which, mind you, I would love to own if I had that much to spend!).

And yes, I do read Stereophile. I think they do a decent job of including some lower-end audiophile options, but the preponderance of their reviews focus on things only the filthy rich can afford. You can often tell their readership by the number of letters-to-the-editor who are lawyers

It would be nice if they had more breadth, less (often obnoxious) depth.

--Chris

PS - I like the Denon DM one of you recommended. It looks *very* tiny, and rather stylish. However, I was able to find a NAD L40 locally that I can audition (and it sounds great!), whreas the Denon appears to be predominantly available only in the UK (?).