[tdogzthmn]

Are there many stereo amps that are recognized for working well with headphones?

 

[twylight]

did you actually read the thread you are quoting - it was quickly determined that receiver manufacturers gave false information (shocker) as they dont know their own products. People actually opened them up and looked at service manuals to determine the opamp/otl issue.

Also opamps can sound great - devil is in the details, impedance matching, and headphone sensitivity.

Being a skeptic on most of the things on head-fi...I can easily tell the difference between DACs...amps not so much. I think the 80/20 applies to headphone - spend 80 percent on the headphones, 20 percent on the rest (just like home theater and 2 channel) for reasonable bang of the buck.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, Elrod, given the frequency with which the myth that modern headphone jacks are opamp afterthoughts and the vintage stuff used the mains and resistors has been thrown around the headphone community, I can't blame you a bit for doubting what I said. Don't take my word for it, email the manufacturers and ask them. Or just accept this guy's research. He's already done the legwork: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/man...-jacks-338299/ Sometimes these things (hobby myths) get started, get rolling, then take on a life of their own. This is one of those cases. I'm not saying that all integrated amp/receiver headphone sections are better than dedicated HP amps, or even as good. All I'm saying is that the cheap, throw-away, opamp afterthought story that has been presented here, is wrong. And these headphone sections are worth a listen. PP

 

[eucariote]

I'm reviving this old thread because this question is still relevant, maybe even more now because stereo receivers now have digital inputs, decent dacs inside, chromecast capability etc and I haven't found many good answers to this question. Does anybody know if there are modernish integrated amplifiers/receivers that have good headphone jacks? I'm hoping to add speakers to the mix and it would be very convenient to have one box to rule them all..

Some manufacturers must care about the headphone output because there is at least one modern amplifier with a decent headphone jack but it doesn't have any digital inputs.. Hopefully somebody here knows about this.

Or has anybody noticed that their stereos do a particularly good job with headphones (esp high impedance ones) or if anyone wants to put a volt meter in their headphone jack that might be useful too.

 

[jnorris]

I'm reviving this old thread because this question is still relevant, maybe even more now because stereo receivers now have digital inputs, decent dacs inside, chromecast capability etc and I haven't found many good answers to this question. Does anybody know if there are modernish integrated amplifiers/receivers that have good headphone jacks? I'm hoping to add speakers to the mix and it would be very convenient to have one box to rule them all..

Some manufacturers must care about the headphone output because there is at least one modern amplifier with a decent headphone jack but it doesn't have any digital inputs.. Hopefully somebody here knows about this.

Or has anybody noticed that their stereos do a particularly good job with headphones (esp high impedance ones) or if anyone wants to put a volt meter in their headphone jack that might be useful too.

I've checked dozens of current and vintage receivers/integrateds and every one of them use series resistors off the main speaker outputs to drive the headphone jack. With high impedance headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic DT990 250 ohn) this works well. However with lower impedance or balanced armature headphones (Shure SE-535) the result is positively dismal - no highs, bloated bass, etc.

 

[Nitreb]

My own experience with integrated amps' headphone outs (two Yamaha, one from the 70s and one from 2010) and dedicated headphone amps (O2 and Solo Ultralinear DE) is that there's not much difference; it's more a matter of flavour than quality.

 

[eucariote]

One detail is that my headphones all have pretty low impedance (30-60 ohm for LCD-2, HE-500, RS-1), so an ideal headphone jack would need to have some watts to maintain current over a low resistance. But maybe that's not too important because I only listen at lowish volumes.

More important I think is to avoid damping to keep the bass tight, and for that the amp would need low output impedance. Output impedance of the amplifier is supposed to be much lower than the impedance of the headphones (1/8? Some manufacturers design their audiophile headphones for zero ohm source), so ideally 0-2 ohms.

So i guess ideally a good headphone jack would have (a) some watts (1W mimum for HE-500 @ 38 ohms according to Fang), (b) ~1-3 ohm output impedance, and maybe (c) be a class a/b amplifier for good efficiency and no crossover distortion. Why can't audio companies just publish their specs?

I've checked dozens of current and vintage receivers/integrateds and every one of them use series resistors off the main speaker outputs to drive the headphone jack. With high impedance headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic DT990 250 ohn) this works well. However with lower impedance or balanced armature headphones (Shure SE-535) the result is positively dismal - no highs, bloated bass, etc.

That is unfortunate. Phelonius ponk on this thread also said that design means many stereo amp jacks have output impedance of ~120 ohms. Ouch

My own experience with integrated amps' headphone outs (two Yamaha, one from the 70s and one from 2010) and dedicated headphone amps (O2 and Solo Ultralinear DE) is that there's not much difference; it's more a matter of flavour than quality.

Thanks for your impression, that's good to know. Would you mind measuring the output impedance of your newer Yamaha? Just kidding.

 

[Nitreb]

Thanks for your impression, that's good to know. Would you mind measuring the output impedance of your newer Yamaha? Just kidding.

I don't have any measuring equipment, but the user manual of my current Yamaha (i.e. A-S2000) states that it has a "discrete headphone amp" with an output impedance of 32 Ohms.

 

[jnorris]

I don't have any measuring equipment, but the user manual of my current Yamaha (i.e. A-S2000) states that it has a "discrete headphone amp" with an output impedance of 32 Ohms.

Indeed it does have a fully discrete (no opamps) standalone headphone amp. Impressive. Although the 32 ohm rating is still pretty high when amps like the Schiit Magni 3 boasts an output impedance of .3 ohms, and the ideal range falls below 1 ohm.

 

[KonstantinT]

Hello,

since some years I own a NAD 1155 full size preamplifier from the late 1980ies due to its good phono input (I'm a vinyl lover). Its 100 ohms headphone output drove an AKG K501 (120 ohms) satisfactorily and a Sennheiser HD580 (300 ohms) as good as a Matrix M-stage dedicated headphone amp did.

Currently I use a Sennheiser HD545 (150 ohms), a Grado SR225e (32 ohms) and a Sennheiser HD360pro (32 ohms, closed-back, foldable). Driven by the NAD 1155 they sound more than decent.

Regards!
Konstantin

 

[Mightygrey]

Are there many stereo amps that are recognized for working well with headphones?

The Emotiva BasX A-100 is well regarded - particularly for hard to drive cans. I enjoyed it, but needed something a little more flexible after I sold my vintage Hifimans.

 

[repman244]

Not too long ago I bought a Sony TA-F630ESD, I got it quite cheap from ebay (had problems in right channel but it was only a dirty relay). Before that I was using the Shiit Asgard 2.
All I can say is that the Sony demolishes the Asgard when used with HD600, especially in lower frequencies which many people say that the 600 lack. But they pack a punch with the Sony.

All I can say that the price is not the most important it's the synergy between the components that produces the best sound - and I can say I definitely found it with this combination.
Probably the asgard measures better in all metrics but that will never help you if you don't pair it with headphones that "work" with it.