Stepped attenuation vs. volume pots... are they that different?

Mar 8, 2002 at 3:51 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

Nick Dangerous

Mr. Tuberrific
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oej24p_kit.jpg


This stepped attenuator in kit form is $73.

GrayhillStepAttenKiwame.jpg


This one is $180.

oeg24p.jpg


And this one is $295!! In a kit!!

I'm assuming that the more expensive models "sound better", but how? Why? The only difference I can perceive is that the cheaper ones use Philips metal film resistors and the spendy one uses Kiwame carbonized silicon resistors.

(as if I understood the difference)
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Just curious... who in the heck has time to actually audition the sonic difference between these units?

For that matter, why don't I just buy an Alps blue beauty volume pot for $28 and be done with it? Smooth action vs. stepped volume seems better to me, ergonomically speaking.

I've got the audiophile bug, but not the full comprehension of it. Stuff like this drives me nuts! How are we supposed to know the difference? I hesitate when confronted at the toothpaste aisle, for heaven's sake! Whitener? Tartar control? Spearmint? Glow in the dark?
 
Mar 8, 2002 at 4:22 AM Post #2 of 12
Well, stepped attenuators offer near perfect (from 1% all the way to <.1% depending on the resistors) matches between channels and a host of other things.

Basicly this is the pursuit of perfection. The more expensive ones have nicer rotary switches (silver contacts, ect.) and better matched (usualy by hand), higher quality resistors.

Are they better than pots? Yes they are.

Does it matter? That's the debateable thing.

They are best suited for use in ultra-high end gear. Take the blockhead for example, they make sense there. You can exactly match the volume of the two channels on it, which would be hard to do with volume pots.

Quote:

I've got the audiophile bug, but not the full comprehension of it. Stuff like this drives me nuts! How are we supposed to know the difference?


There seems to be two types of audiophiles around here. One defines "better" by their own ears, the other defines "better" by .1% measured differences. If you are the first one, you'll know the difference when you hear it. If you are the latter, well, hide your wallet because that the the route of high prices and diminishing maginal returns. Audio is personal, that "we" should be an "I".


To me, all that matters is the music.
 
Mar 8, 2002 at 6:12 AM Post #3 of 12
Is that $73 kit a 24-step version? Where did you find that price?

I'd consider a stepped attenuator if I ever made a really really nice tube amp. But hmm, that's a lot of soldering to do with the kit.
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Mar 9, 2002 at 9:07 AM Post #6 of 12
the first one looks like a series attenuator. the last 2 look like ladder attenuators. you need a double pole switch for a series and a 4 pole switch (which pumps up the price a lot) for a ladder. in a series attenuator the signal has to travel through a bunch of resistors, depending on the volume position. in a ladder attenuator there's only one resistor in the signal path.
 
Apr 4, 2002 at 9:39 PM Post #10 of 12
Pots try to combine the functions of a resistor and a switch, by rubbing a contact on a naked resistor.

So on the face of it, you have a bad idea. But it is cheap.

Traditionally, pots have noise when you are changing them, because resistor-stuff isn't the best contact material. Also some increase of noise even when not moving.

Modern pots work very well. True, the changes made to improve contact with the resistor-stuff may (or may not) conflict with other properties of an "ideal" resistor like voltage coefficient and noise. But obviously modern pots are "good enough" for many high-end systems.

(If you want to build a constant-impedance pad, it is hard with a switch but very-hard to do well with pots. But nobody does that any more.)

For stereo, it is very difficult to get two resistor tracks exactly the same. That unbalances channel levels. Tolerances even on good stereo pots may exceed +-20% or 2dB, however my experience is that most inexpensive stereo pots track to 1 dB over the main part of the range.

Pots have infinite resolution in theory, and very-fine resolution in practice (limited by roughness and flaws in the resistance). Switched attenuators have steps. If you want "inaudible" steps over a wide range, you need lots of steps. If you want 1dB steps over a 40dB range, that's a 40-position switch. More than a few steps radically increases costs. A cheap 6-position 2-pole switch costs $1.19, I paid $22 for a good 12-way 2-pole switch, and 20+ pole switches are mostly custom-order with large minimums and high prices.

Back in the old days, Daven made audio step attenuators that look very much more robust than these little plastic things you show. Huge contacts and wipers designed to never lose contact, and easy to clean. Now, maybe it is true that modern switch technology with sealed contacts is better than the old ways, but it looks like an expensive toy to my old eyes.

I do live recording for a living. If a pot makes static when I try to sneak the level down, the recording is ruined and the customer gets mad. That's a more critical problem than playback, where you can always listen again. Even so, I no longer use stepped attenuators. In fact I have often used the Radio Shack $2 dual-pot. One I installed 20 years ago has had to be replaced (for "scratchy") once. The balance does shift a dB or so as you turn it, but in live recording I don't turn it much and the source is never perfectly balanced (I can fix that in the mix if desired).

ALL gain-change systems have problems. Pots scratch. Switches step. Photoresistors don't match. Multipliers are noisy. Gm stages run out of current when deeply attenuated. DACs step and getting dB steps is messy, and the post-amp has a hard job. Even if you work only in the digital domain, the math-unit has to have twice the bits of the signal data, which means a mainframe class math register. All things considered, pots aren't so bad and are great bargains.

-PRR
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 10:00 AM Post #11 of 12
PRR: If I put five 6-position 2-pole switch in-line, the first one for coarse adjustment, second one for fine, third one for very fine... 5 x 6 = 30, I can have a '30-position switch' for $10, will it work? Or the extra contact points will do more harms than good?

Thanks

Discoman
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 10:35 PM Post #12 of 12
> If I put five 6-position 2-pole switch in-line, the first one for coarse adjustment, second one for fine, third one for very fine... 5 x 6 = 30, I can have a '30-position switch' for $10, will it work?

If I read you right, your math is off. Each 6-way switch has 5 live positions, the sixth one for "see next switch". I count 26 positions.

With seven switches, one "master" to select one of six setting switches, you could get 36 positons.

But there is a more economical way. The first switch is made 0, -10, -20, -30, -40, -50 dB. The second switch is made 0, -2, -4, -6, -8, -10 dB. That gives 0 to -60 dB in 2dB steps in two 6-way switches. Two bucks fifty for switches, and about 28 resistors at 12 cents each makes the whole deal cheaper than lunch.

If you want more range or resolution, three 6-way switches can give over 100 dB range in half-dB steps:

0.0 -0.5 -1.0 -1.5 -2.0 -2.5
0.0 -3.0 -6.0 -9.0 -12.0 -15.0
0.0 -18 -36 -54 -72 -90

Similar schemes are very common on lab gear.

The problem is that you can't make some small adjustments, even with two or three hands, without going across a coarse-range jump and a momentary blast or dip in volume. If you set the listening level and leave it alone, fine. In a lab, you set the level and then go look at the reading. But it is awkward for adjusting while listening and impossible for live recording.

-PRR
 

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